Hi Everyone! 

Mickey here… I hope this post finds you enjoying a peaceful and healthy New Year holiday! I wanted to take a moment to give you a heads up about an event coming up that is relevant to the AIP community as well as make an announcement about AIP Certified Coach.

First… The 2023 AIP Summit is scheduled for January 9-15! 

If you are looking to learn more about healing with the Autoimmune Protocol, directly from AIP Certified Coaches, the AIP Summit is for you! 

Each day starts at 10AM EST with a live welcome and then attendees can watch the day’s prepared presentations in any order and at whatever time works in their schedule for the following 24 hours. Each of the presentations features at least one AIP Certified Coach and the topic aligns with that coach’s expertise. 

So what types of presentations will you find at the AIP Summit? There are cooking demonstrations, deep dives into science or specific conditions, discussions about the impact of lifestyle factors, best practices for integrating AIP into life in the real world, and more. Additionally, attendees can submit questions after watching the presentations to be answered live during a Q&A panel the following day.

Since 2020, the AIP Summit has served over 15,000 people looking to learn more about AIP. Whether you are new to the protocol, or a seasoned traveler on the autoimmune journey, you are sure to learn some tips to help support your best health, straight from the experts! 

>> Sign up here to attend the AIP Summit! 

Second… a big announcement regarding AIP Certified Coach! 

I am honored to announce that Jaime Hartman, FNTP will be taking over as co-teacher and collaborator for AIP Certified Coach, the practitioner training program we founded in 2017 to help all types of healthcare providers integrate AIP into the work they do. 

This partnership should come as no surprise, since Jaime has been a pillar of the AIP community since the very beginning, was a part of the first cohort of AIP Certified Coach, and brings her rich clinical experience and educational background to the program. 

Together, Jaime and I are engaged in a ground-up remodel of the AIP Certified Coach, to be launched in time for the usual Spring enrollment in 2023. While the Autoimmune Protocol itself has not changed meaningfully since the program was created, we are re-writing and delivering all lectures to incorporate new information (like medical study results!) and additional perspectives we’ve gained. 

If you are a healthcare practitioner of any kind (we train health coaches, nutritional therapists, nutritionists, dietitians, physical therapists, fitness professionals, bodyworkers, nurses, physician’s assistants, medical doctors, naturopathic doctors, and more!), we would love to have you join us in the 2023 class, enrolling February 15 for a March 6 start date. 

>> Sign up to be notified of the details and enrollment opening for AIP Certified Coach here! 

In health, 

Mickey

The post AIP in 2023: An Announcement & an Invitation! appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Today I’m sharing that after 10 years helping build and lead this movement and seven years at Autoimmune Welln­­­ess and AIP Certified Coach with Mickey, I have decided to step away from my work in the AIP space.

In a general sense, I am making this decision because I believe that slowing down and practicing community care are the next right things for me. I am so proud of everything Mickey and I have built and all the ways we’ve been able to serve the AIP community, but I don’t believe that my leadership in this space is the most valuable way I can contribute at this point.

To clarify, I still believe AIP is an incredibly powerful tool in the autoimmune management toolbox. I think that the future of AIP is bright and has already changed the standard of healthcare for autoimmune patients. After a decade of this work, I’d love to contribute to different conversations about health and wellness and support new voices ready to lead with fresh approaches to the AIP movement and new takes on the autoimmune healing journey.

My personal vision for the work I did in the AIP community was always to empower others so they could courageously contribute their voices to a revolutionary shift in the standard of autoimmune healthcare. And it’s right in our tagline here at Autoimmune Wellness that together, Mickey and I had a vision to build community. There are many, many voices now and the community is thriving. I think those visions are realized and now I’m making space for new visions.

I’m not entirely certain about all the details of my next steps, but if you’d like to follow my writing or learn a little more about the personal aspects of the decision to step away, you can find me here on Substack.

So, what does this mean for Autoimmune Wellness?

After I shared my decision with Mickey this past summer, we started to consider the best way forward for Autoimmune Wellness. We decided that turning it into an archive was the right path.

As an archive, all the current Autoimmune Wellness content, from groundbreaking research to definitive guides on the AIP basics, from practical how-to articles to hopeful stories of recovery, from the podcast to the hundreds of recipes, will continue to exist as a kind of dependable digital library to serve the autoimmune community. The resources on the site itself and the email auto-responder which offers free downloadable tools will be available to anyone looking for support in their healing journey.

New content will be limited and focused on opportunities to leverage the site and subscriber list to amplify the work of others in the Autoimmune Protocol space or share new and relevant events or research for those utilizing nutrition and lifestyle approaches in their autoimmune disease management.

Autoimmune Wellness social media accounts will also continue but will be used to amplify information and events important to the AIP community, share the work of other AIP recipe creators, spotlight AIP Certified Coach alumni, or to occasionally broadcast live interviews with autoimmune experts.

In particular, Mickey is looking forward to ramping up on the AIP research front and will serve as curator and steward of the Autoimmune Wellness archive and social media presence going forward.

What does this mean for AIP Certified Coach?

Mickey will continue to teach AIP Certified Coach and train new AIP coaches from across the health and wellness spectrum. Angie will be stepping away, but a dynamic new partnership is in the works and will be announced soon. If you are an AIP Certified Coach alum, look for emails with more details from Mickey soon.

If you are a provider interested in training, join the interest list here. If you are looking for AIP coaching support, find a coach at the directory here.

Thank you!

We had no idea what would happen when we started, but our intuition said to go for it. Thank you for also believing there was something here worth growing. We are deeply, sincerely grateful to all of you for being our readers and cheerleaders. For literally supporting us by clicking on this blog, buying our books, enrolling in our programs, and helping spread AIP.

We also want to acknowledge, with the deepest sense of gratitude, the team who helped grow and sustain Autoimmune Wellness over the years: Grace Heerman, Alicia Green, and Jordan Taylor.

We have also had an amazing core recipe and article team over the years who took the site to new levels with their contributions: Dr. Rob Abbott, Sarah Kolman, Sophie Van Tiggelen, Christina Feindel, Kate Jay, Alaena Haber, Kelsey McReynolds, Wendi Washington-Hunt, Beth Chen, Indira Pullidath, Kris King, and Erin Shearer.

It’s a privilege to have come this far and have a platform that now has long-term value for our fellow autoimmune patients. We know the legacy of our work represented in this archive, only possible because of your support and the work of our team, will continue to benefit and sustain the AIP movement well into the future.

If you’d like to listen to us discuss this decision, we uploaded a short episode of The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast that you can listen to below: 

If this work has been meaningful in your healing journeys, please share your stories in the comments. We’d love to hear from you!

The post A Special Message From Angie appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

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I have HUGE news today–I’m coming out with a brand-new AIP cookbook!

It’s called The Nutrient-Dense Kitchen and it releases March 2019 (details below on how you can order a signed, pre-release copy!).

Angie and I both know from personal experience that being successful on AIP is much more than simply eliminating foods. Healing is both quickened and deepened when you ensure that in addition to avoiding your food triggers, your make an effort to maximize nutrient density in the diet.

But what exactly is nutrient density? Simply put, it is the amount of micronutrients a food contains relative to the energy it provides. Not only does my new book teach you about getting good nutrition in an approachable way, but I have developed all of the recipes so you’ll be maximizing nutrient density with every bite.

Inside The Nutrient-Dense Kitchen, you’ll find:

• 125 Autoimmune Protocol compliant recipes (free from gluten, grains, dairy, eggs, nuts, seeds, and nightshades)
• Recipes that satisfy low-FODMAP, low-carb, or coconut-free diets
• Recipes that take 45 minutes (or less) to prepare, can be made in one pot, or can be made in an Instant Pot
• 5 meal plan and shopping list combinations, including budget and two-person options

In order to create a book I believe in and maintain complete control over the content, I am self-publishing The Nutrient-Dense Kitchen. By pre-ordering your copy directly from me, you get some awesome perks!

Your pre-order bonuses include:

• A signed copy of the first hardcover printing
• Early delivery of the book (up to a month before traditional release)
• Membership to a private insider FB group (Dec-Feb)
• Access to pre-release recipes from the book

Be one of the first to get your hands on The Nutrient-Dense Kitchen! Only a limited number of books are available for pre-order so reserve your copy now!

Click here to learn more and pre-order! >>

The post Announcing The Nutrient-Dense Kitchen by Mickey Trescott! appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 8 is our final episode of the season! In this episode, we’re giving the floor to five members of the autoimmune community to hear their number one piece of advice when it comes to saving money on the AIP.

Since these recommendations can be so individual, we wanted to see what was getting the AIP community actual mileage when they put it into practice. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. Mitch Hankins, Instinctual Wellbeing [3:46]
2. Sophie Van Tiggelen of A Squirrel in the Kitchen [8:43]
3. Anne Marie Garland from Grass-fed Salsa [15:51]
4. Samantha Jo Teague of the Unskilled Cavewoman [20:56]
5. Kerry Jeffery of Emotional Autoimmunity [24:27]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Angie here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 3. How are you doing, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I’m feeling a little bit sad because we’re almost done with this podcast series, and it’s been really fun.

Angie Alt: I know. This was a really new topic for us to explore so in-depth. And it’s been pretty rewarding to talk to all these folks.

Mickey Trescott: I agree.

Angie Alt: So today we have a really fun episode for you guys. As you know, with this season of the podcast we’ve been on a mission to dig into the nitty gritty of how to make eating a nourishing, real foods diet both affordable and sustainable.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. If you guys haven’t been following along, we covered the following topics in our previous episodes. We talked about sourcing affordable, highest quality meats, vegetables, and fats. Tips and tricks for effective meal planning, batch cooking, and minimizing food waste. Creative food sourcing options, like buying clubs and online shopping. How to minimize waste and reimagine leftovers. Creating a food budget and prioritizing your food spending. And also how to do AIP on an extremely low budget, like fixed income or food stamps.

I think we’ve done a really good job covering these bases. If you guys haven’t heard any of the episodes in this series, make sure to go back and listen to them. There’s a ton of really great info there. Info that I think is new territory for our movement our community. It’s been really fun.

Angie Alt: Right. We hope there’s something there for everybody. So, if there has been one recurring message this season, it has been that not every one of these recommendations is going to work for everyone, obviously. We’re all at different places with our health, our finances, our support systems and even our access based on the areas where we live. We thought it would be a good idea to round out this season of the podcast by devoting a whole episode to chatting with some of the members of the AIP blogging community about their number one money saving tip.

Since these recommendations can be so individual, we wanted to see what was getting the AIP community actual mileage when they put it into practice.

1. Mitch Hankins, Instinctual Wellbeing [3:46]

Mickey Trescott: Alright. So let’s move on and talk to our first guest.

So you guys; the first community member that we’re going to chat with today is Mitch Hankins from the blog Instinctual Wellbeing. Mitch, what is your number one tip for saving money on AIP?

Mitch Hankins: There are so many good ones. When my wife and I were kind of going through financial stuff a few years ago, we definitely had to get creative with sticking to an AIP and whole foods diet on a very limited budget. And very quickly, I think the thing we realized that was most helpful was not being afraid to grocery shop hop; or grocery store hop.

Basically, what we ended up doing is just taking note of maybe two or even three grocery stores in our area, and what products did we regularly use from each of those, and finding which store had the best prices for that particular item. Maybe we’d get a certain percentage of things from Whole Foods. And then for us, we’d drive down the road and hit up Trader Joe’s for 30 minutes and grab some things there. Sometimes we’d go to the Asian mart to pick up a few items there, like coconut milk and even some sweet potato noodles and things of that nature.

So, really just learning where we could get the best deals. And then taking advantage of that. One thing I would say; we did live in a pretty large metropolitan area, and I know some people don’t. So one thing you could do if you live in a more rural or smaller town, could be to do that same thing, but online.

I know there’s lots of great shops nowadays online where you can buy AIP products, and even meats. You could meet your local farmers in your area. But again, it all comes back to this putting pieces together of a puzzle, instead of just trying to get everything at one store, and fit that into your budget when it might not work as well.

Angie Alt: I love this tip, Mitch. Because actually my husband and I do it, too. And again, you know, we’re lucky to live in a kind of urban/suburban area. So we have Whole Foods and we have Trader Joe’s and we have all the places. So we can kind of hop around. But it really allows us to take advantage of the lowest price on an item in whatever store. So I totally agree that this is a smart one.

Mickey Trescott: And a lot of stores have rotating sales, too. So by going to multiple stores, you can actually see; you have a greater chance of being able to pick up some of the things they have on sale that are maybe time sensitive. And another thing, is that actually grocery stores make their money by putting certain things on sale, and then keeping other staples at a high price to basically round it out. It’s almost like; it’s not really cheating, but you’re paying for that convenience of getting every single thing at the same store. You’ll notice that certain things are marked down to kind of lure you to shop there, and then other staples are right at the highest price. That’s how they make their money. Great tip, Mitch.

Mitch Hankins: Absolutely. And just one other note on that; I’m glad you brought up the sales thing. Because some grocery stores will have regular, like weekly sales. For instance, during that period of our lives, we would go to our Whole Foods and have rotisserie chicken Wednesday. Because every Wednesday at our particular Whole Foods, rotisserie chickens were $2 off normal.

And then they had a lot of other things. I think for a while they were doing fresh salmon on Tuesdays was like $2 or $3 off per filet. So looking for those recurring deals as well. And maybe scheduling your meal plan, or scheduling your dinners around that can be helpful.

Angie Alt: Yeah. So smart. I did this even before AIP. I really would use; and Mickey and I talked about this in an earlier episode. But I would really use those flyers with the sales to plan my meals. Proactively around what stores were offering what discounts.

Mitch Hankins: Absolutely. That’s a great point.

Angie Alt: Mitch, will you let our listeners know where people can find you?

Mitch Hankins: Absolutely. My blog is InstinctualWellbeing.com. and similarly, uncreatively, my Instagram is also @InstinctualWellbeing. And Facebook is Instinctual Wellbeing. So you can find me and connect with me there. You can also shoot me an email if you really wanted to chat more about budget friendly tips, or anything, at mitch@instinctualwellbeing.com. That’s where you can connect with me.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. Thank you so much for chatting with us today, Mitch.

Mitch Hankins: Absolutely. Thank you!

2. Sophie Van Tiggelen of A Squirrel in the Kitchen [8:43]

Mickey Trescott: Next up, we’re going to chat with Sophie Van Tiggelen of A Squirrel in the Kitchen. Sophie, what is your number one tip for saving money on AIP?

Sophie Van Tiggelen: My very first tip I think that eating vegetables and fruit is very important. You need to eat as much vegetables and fruit as you can. Like, try to fill up your plate with at least three-quarters of vegetables. They are a great source of antioxidants, vitamins, and minerals. And the fiber content of vegetables is really important for healthy gut microflora.

So I’m always trying to eat a maximum of vegetables and fruit to have the full spectrum of nutrients. But then the problem is; how can you eat good quality vegetables and fruit on a budget without breaking the bank? So my first tip would be to eat seasonal. For example, there is no point wanting to eat delicious raspberries in the middle of winter. They are super expensive. I would advise you to try to eat fall and winter produce. Like apples, oranges, and pears. So that really helps to reduce your grocery bill.

Then I would say try to take advantage of promotions that you see in stores. And this is great, because it’s going to push you to expand your veggie repertoire, and try new things that you might now have thought about before.

I would also try to avoid fancy or exotic produce. I know that when I’m grocery shopping, I’m always attracted by those exotic and tropical fruits, because they’re all colorful and they look so good. But usually they are very expensive.

Also, I try to avoid special vegetables or unusual vegetables that come from far away. So I would advise here to eat local. It’s less expensive. They come from your neighborhood; the farmers around you. And it’s cheaper to produce them.

You can usually find local produce at your health food store. Here in Colorado, I like either Whole Foods or Vitamin Cottage. Or you can also try to find a farmer’s market in your area. That’s a very good way to eat local produce.

To keep your budget low, I would also advise to think about the food return you’re going to get when you buy something. Try to stretch your dollars, and stretch your meals. For example, I love to buy spaghetti squash because I know they will go a long way. And I will be able to use them for several meals. It’s the same for cabbage, collard greens, carrots, broccoli, or sweet potatoes. They are easy to prepare. They reheat well. And you can stretch them for several meals.

Another big one for me is to be smart and to avoid waste. I try to never, ever throw food away. And before I buy something new or start on a new vegetable, I will make sure that I eat everything I have prepared. All these little pieces that are left over in your fridge; every two to three days I will put everything together and reheat the plate and just eat it. Because we can lose a lot of money, also, in the long run by just throwing food away.

Angie Alt: Yeah, these are great tips, Sophie!

Sophie Van Tiggelen: And I have one last point about the quality of the food that you buy. Do you have to buy organic? Let’s face it; it’s not always possible to buy organic. We know it’s better for you because you want to avoid pesticides because they have a negative impact on your health and immune system. But it’s not always possible. So I would advise people to refer to the famous Dirty Dozen/Clean 15 lists, and try to do the best you can. And if you have to buy conventional, that’s just fine. It’s alright. It’s better to eat conventional vegetables than just go to fast food. So yeah, these are my tips.

Angie Alt: This is a lady after our own heart, Mickey.

Mickey Trescott: I know. I love it.

Angie Alt: They’re all so good, and I love the focus on budgeting around the veggies. You know, we tend to think of the meats in this diet as being the big hefty expenditure on the budget, and that’s true. But, you can really get out of control with the veggies, too. Like you were talking about, Sophie. Buying berries out of season. You could practically need a credit card for it!

Sophie Van Tiggelen: Yes, definitely.

Angie Alt: Sophie, will you let our listeners know where people can find you?

Sophie Van Tiggelen: Oh, yes, certainly. Everyone can find me first on my blog, which is A Squirrel in the Kitchen. I’m also very active on Instagram and Facebook. You can find me there. And I would like to mention that I’m very excited about my upcoming second cookbook, which is coming out June 12th. It’s called The Autoimmune Protocol Made Simple. And it’s a whole new set of fresh and appealing recipes for the autoimmune protocol.

Mickey Trescott: We’re so excited about it, Sophie. Thanks so much for talking with us today.

Sophie Van Tiggelen: Thank you.

Mickey Trescott: A final word from our title sponsor this season, the Nutritional Therapy Association. We wanted to take a moment to publicly thank NTA for graciously sponsoring this podcast season; real food on a budget. Producing, editing, and transcribing this podcast is a big job for both us and our team, and their support means we can offer all of this to you guys at no cost.

Angie Alt: We also want to thank them for the quality of both the NTP and the NTC programs that Mickey and I have benefited from, and the incredible community of coaches they have trained that are truly changing the world.

The NTP and NTC programs changed our lives, and we’re talking about more than career here, you guys. Of course, the training and education took us to a whole other level in our work; but the life-changing stuff is in feeling you’re part of a tribe who cares deeply about health and wellness. It’s in joining and association filled with intelligent people who are changing the way we do health care. And it’s in the pride that comes from knowing you and your classmates, soon to be colleagues, are part of a cutting-edge profession. So yeah; life-changing.

Mickey Trescott: And if any of you guys are looking into transforming your career, or simply learning more so that you can better help yourself and your community, check out everything the Nutritional Therapy Association has to offer at the website www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

3. Anne Marie Garland from Grass-fed Salsa [15:51]

Angie Alt: Next up, we are going to chat with Anne Marie Garland from Grass-fed Salsa. Anne Marie; what is your number one tip for saving money on AIP?

Anne Marie Garland: This is something that my husband and I have been doing for probably four years now. We try to do one meal a day that is vegetarian. And we do this for a couple of reasons, but primarily it started for budgetary reasons. And we found that it works best when we do it for dinner. So if we have protein with breakfast; like animal protein with breakfast and lunch. And then dinner ends up being entirely vegetarian.

And for us, it makes us feel more energized throughout the day to have protein with breakfast and lunch. I also feel like it helps support my adrenals better when I have protein with breakfast and lunch. But then at dinner, because we’re eating it later in the day and then we’re going to sleep shortly after. As long as we have enough protein and enough fat, we seem to be really satiated. And the bonus there is that we’re actually eating a ton of veggies during that meal.

We’ll make; I don’t even know. One or two pounds of beet fries. That’s one of our favorite ways to do this. And beet fries are something that I feel like most people kind of have a negative opinion about beets. But if you scrub them really well, they don’t taste as earthy as they do if you just kind of cook them right off; without washing and without scrubbing them.

So we scrub them really well, and then we coat them in bacon grease. And I think the bacon grease is the trick with this. It helps them get really crispy, and not feel really soggy. And we just kind of cut them into fries type shapes. And then we just bake them like that. So we coat them in bacon grease, put salt and maybe some chives on them. Chives is a really good addition. And then we can make that with an avocado mayo. I have an avocado mayo that’s egg-free on my recipes. So we’ll just use that. It’s kind of like an aioli dipping sauce for them. It’s really good. That’s pretty much our trick.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. I mean, Anne Marie, I think this is a super savvy hack. Because we all know, from talking about budgeting for AIP and food sourcing, that high quality meat is often the most expensive part about doing this diet. And we actually get a lot of confusion from people that think they need to be eating large amounts of protein every single meal.

I think for some people; like I was vegan for 10 years before I transitioned to AIP. So there was a phase where I felt like I was eating a lot of meat, because nutritionally I needed it. But after about a year of that, I really backed off a lot. And I did something similar to you. Having one meal a day meat free. For me, often it’s lunch. Different strokes for different folks. Whatever works for people. But just not having to have that meat prepared; either the energy to actually make it, and also not having to pay for the protein for that meal. And then getting all those veggies. I think it’s a win for all angles.

Angie Alt: My favorite part of this is the amount of veggies you’re going to get in. Right? You’re talking about one to two pounds of beets, along with other vegetables, in the form of avocado mayo or whatever you’re having at that particular meal. You’re winning the veggie contest.

Anne Marie Garland: Totally. And we usually do make it along side a nonstarchy veggie, as well. So maybe we’ll have it with a salad. Or we’ll sauté some greens. Green beans is also another one we like to bake along with the beet fries.

Mickey Trescott: Really cool. I like your suggestion, too, of kind of front loading the protein. Just because that’s actually a nice way to go with your digestive flow throughout the day, and also blood sugar. So a lot us find that more of the starchy carbs at the end of the day with dinner can actually help us sleep. And some people actually don’t really digest protein that well towards the end of the day, just because they’ve got so much food in their system and their body’s already kind of working on all that other stuff. So I can see why a lighter dinner without the protein might actually help there. I think I’m going to try it.

Anne Marie Garland: Yeah, that makes sense too, for me, since my diagnosis is celiac. Maybe just with my digestion, it works really well.

Mickey Trescott: Well thank you so much, Anne Marie, for sharing that tip with us. Will you let our listeners know where they can find you?

Anne Marie Garland: Yes. You can find me anywhere on social media and on the internet at Grass-fed Salsa. And on the website it’s just GrassfedSalsa.com.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. Thanks so much.

Anne Marie Garland: Thank you.

4. Samantha Jo Teague of the Unskilled Cavewoman [20:56]

Angie Alt: Next up, we’re going to chat with Samantha Jo Teague of the Unskilled Cavewoman. Samantha Jo, what is your number one tip for saving money on AIP?

Samantha Jo Teague: I love using dried herbs. Instead of spending about $7 or so on a tiny little jar of organic dried parsley or basil, I can get a one-pound bulk bag from your various online venders from anywhere from $15-20.

Mickey Trescott: Where online are you shopping for your bulk herbs?

Samantha Jo Teague: I tend to bounce between either iHerb, VitaCost, and Amazon. I’m constantly price checking and comparing. Because if you’re going to buy a handful of spices, and as long as you meet their shipping requirement. Because I like to get the free shipping, too, otherwise it’s not really worth it. You bounce between those three vendors, and you can find really good prices.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. We talked a little bit earlier in this season about shopping for food online, but we didn’t mention iHerb or VitaCost, which I think both of those I’ve used a little bit in the past. And it’s awesome to see that you’re finding that they have really good prices on bulk spices.

Samantha Jo Teague: Definitely. It saves a ton of money. Especially when you season everything, and you’re cooking almost every day. Or doing bulk cooking every few days. You end up using a lot more of those dried spices than you would think you do. And having that extra, you just store it in an airtight bag while you fill up the tiny jar again. I like to reuse the jars, too. When that’s empty you just fill it on up.

And I also like to pull from the larger bag, and I’ll make blends. Like an Italian blend. Or an herbs de Provence. Or Greek seasoning. And you keep those on hand for when you need to make something even more quickly, and you don’t want to drag out #allthejars.

Angie Alt: I love it. I love the tip on reusing the jars, too. I was just about to ask you how you kind of store everything and if you had any tips there. So I love the reusing of the jars. And you’re totally right. On AIP, you really rely on these herbs for the real taste and pleasure of the food, right. So we go through a ton of it.

Samantha Jo Teague: Oh yes. Tons and tons. And I like using fresh herbs, and fresh ginger, and things like that. But if you’re going through a flare. Or even if you’re just forgetful or busy, quite often those tend to go bad quickly in the fridge and then you end up throwing it away. And with the dried herbs, those aren’t going to go bad for a long time.

Mickey Trescott: Thank you so much for that tip, Samantha Jo. Will you let our listeners know where people can find you?

Samantha Jo Teague: Yes ma’am. I blog over at theUnskilledCavewoman.com. I’m also on Instagram and Facebook as the Unskilled Cavewoman. And occasionally I do a little tweeting on over at Cavewoman Skills. It was too long to write the Unskilled Cavewoman on Twitter.

Mickey Trescott: Well thank you so much for having this chat with us.

Samantha Jo Teague: Thanks! It was fun talking to you ladies.

5. Kerry Jeffery of Emotional Autoimmunity [24:27]

Mickey Trescott: Alright you guys, last up we’re going to be chatting with Kerry Jeffery of Emotional Autoimmunity. So Kerry, what is your number one tip for saving money on AIP?

Kerry Jeffery: My number one tip for everybody is that I use what is called minced meat, here in Australia. I think you guys call it ground meat. It’s really cheap. It’s really versatile for stir fries, one pan meals, burgers. All different sorts of things. And what I really love about using the minced meat, or the ground meat, is that if you’re marinating, like for doing a stir fry, and using things like ginger and garlic. If you massage that through the meat and leave that for a couple of hours, then the flavor really goes in so you get a big flavor bang for very little expense.

And the other thing I wanted to mention, too, is most supermarkets mark down their meat when it’s getting close to the use by date. So I have a couple of supermarkets that I stalk pretty regularly. Particularly if they’ve got things like organic chicken thighs or drumsticks or other cuts of meat. Then I buy a whole lot, put them in the freezer, and that keeps us going for a while.

One of the biggest tricks I found was, I was losing track of what was in my freezer. Especially if I got a big tray of steaks or meat or something, and I was wrapping it up individually to freeze. I would forget what it was. So now I’m really good at putting a little label on. You can even just write what the meat is on a piece of paper, sort of wrap that up in a layer of the Glad wrap or whatever you’re freezing it in, with the date. And that means you save a lot of waste. Because there’s nothing worse than going to the freezer and finding this mystery meat, and you don’t know how long it’s been there for. Or even what it is or how to use it. So there are the tips that I really recommend for everybody, if you want to save a bit of money on AIP.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome! Kerry, I can definitely resonate with that recommendation to just make sure that you’re labeling. I know a lot of us; we’ve talked a lot about the leftovers, and just making sure that we’re using up all of that before we buy more. But the same applies with the freezer. And I think sometimes people think that if you throw something in your freezer, it will last forever, so it doesn’t really matter if you’re not organized or aren’t tracking it. But things do go bad in the freezer, especially if they’ve been there for a while. If you pull it out, and you’re like; what is this? I don’t know how long it’s been here. You’re much more likely to be like; I think I might need to toss this. Right?

Kerry Jeffery: Exactly. And every now and then, just plan to go through your freezer, and just use everything before you buy everything else. Because the trap I fell into was, I kept buying this meat, and then putting it in the freezer on the top. And I lost track of what was down on the bottom. And then when I did decide to do a big clean out in the freezer; I had meat that had been there over a year! So it was a massive waste. So it’s just a really good idea to keep track of what you’ve got in the freezer. And use it all up, and then start again.

Angie Alt: Right. I imagine this helps you rotate the meat pretty quickly.

Kerry Jeffery: It does.

Angie Alt: Using the oldest stuff first. I also love the tip about the minced meat; AKA ground meat. Definitely way back, even before I started AIP, the ground meat was the lifesaver.

Kerry Jeffery: For sure. Another thing, a trap that I fell into earlier in the day was buying what I thought were the veggies and stuff that I had to eat, like kale, because it’s so nutritious. And I even do that now. I bought a big bunch of kale that I was going to make some juice with and do some other things. And when I went to use it, it had just gone off. Because it’s unfamiliar to me.

So for people first trying AIP, don’t automatically buy stuff just because we say it’s really nutritious or you should eat that. If it’s not something that you’re actually going to eat, or if it’s something you’ve got to learn a new way to cook with, or new recipes, you’re more likely to put it off and then it’s just going to go to that big graveyard in the sky of expired veggies in your vegetable crisper.

Angie Alt: The big graveyard in the sky. Love it. Kerry, will you let our listeners know where people can find you?

Kerry Jeffery: Yes! They can find me at www.EmotionalAutoimmunity.com for my website. I’m also on Facebook. I also run a free support group for anybody who is struggling with the emotional side of life with chronic illness. And that’s called Emotional Autoimmunity Recovery Support. You can just put that into the search on Facebook and find me.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. Thank you so much for chatting with us today, Kerry.

Kerry Jeffery: You’re so welcome.

Mickey Trescott: Alright you guys, that’s it for this episode, and season, of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We hope you guys have learned a lot from our fellow AIP bloggers, and from this season as a whole. As always, we appreciate your support. You guys are such an engaged and passionate community, and we love being able to collaborate with and support you guys on your journeys.

Although this season of the podcast has come to a close, we have some really great ideas brewing about how we can bring value to your lives in future seasons. So make sure to keep in touch with us by signing up for our newsletter, on the blog, and following us on social media. We’ll see you guys next time.

Angie Alt: Bye!

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

For the full podcast archive, click here.

The post S3 E8 – Money-Saving Tips From The AIP Community appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 7 is focused on how to both prioritize your food choices, and make a budget for eating this way that is sustainable longterm. Angie and Mickey share their personal stories of budgeting and managing medical expenses and debt. They also chat with guest Jenny Harris about how to modify AIP for lower budgets, and how to find local assistance for food budgeting concerns.

This is a bit of a tricky topic but we hope sharing our experiences and ideas will help you feel supported wherever you find yourself in your journey. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. Different levels of budget concerns [2:19]
2. Budgeting benefits on AIP [7:13]
3. Personal budgeting stories [9:41]
4. Benefit of minimalism [15:58]
5. An investment in your future health [18:53]
6. Introducing our guest, Jenny Harris [23:41]
7. Roadblocks and challenges [29:05]
8. Finding local assistance [31:05]
9. AIP modifications on low-budget [35:44]

Mickey Trescott: Hey guys! Mickey here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 3. How are you doing today, Angie?

Angie Alt: I’m good. Hopefully there won’t be any puppy noise in the background. My puppy is being very naughty today, you guys.

Mickey Trescott: Sometimes it happens. You know, those animals.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm.

Mickey Trescott: So today we are continuing our discussion related to the topic this season. Real food on a budget. This episode is going to be about how to both prioritize your food choices, and make a budget for eating this way. Today we’re tackling a little bit of a tricky topic, but we hope that sharing some of our experiences and ideas will help you guys feel supported wherever you find yourself in your journey.

1. Different levels of budget concerns [2:19]

Mickey Trescott: So first, let’s talk about the three main categories that people find themselves in when we talk about budgeting concerns. The first, of course, are people who are wealthy. They can afford anything. There really aren’t any barriers to getting what they want, because they can go to Whole Foods and get whatever they want. Or they can afford the functional medicine practitioner. Most of us, sadly, don’t find ourselves in this situation.

The middle is actually where most of us are probably at. That’s where people have resources to allocate towards maybe eating better or better medical care, but it means almost always you’re going to have to make some strategic planning. There is flexibility. So there’s a lot of choices sometimes. And maybe going without something so that you can get something else. There are those options to kind of move things around a little bit, and prioritize.

And then lastly there are people who are low income. So those are people who face significant challenges and stress around budgeting for food. And it involves fixed resources without flexibility. So that’s an important distinguishing characteristic between those who truly are low-income. I would say that a lot of people in the middle maybe think they’re a little more low-income than they really are. But the truth is, a lot of us have some flexibility. And that is where a lot of the difficulties come up.

Angie Alt: So in the second segment of the podcast, we’ll be talking a lot more about those in the lowest income group, and some strategies that they can use. We really believe everyone should have access to healing foods. And we want to talk about the ways to make that reality for those in that challenging circumstance.

But in this first segment, we want to focus on the middle category of folks. Because probably most of you guys listening to this podcast find yourselves here. It’s where Mickey and I ourselves land. So we just want to kind of take a stab at the topic that is probably most of us are facing.

We also want to acknowledge that having a chronic illness alone can be limiting to the budget. It’s expensive to be sick. And we totally get that.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. The different ways even just having an autoimmune disease before you get into some of the diet and lifestyle stuff that you might want to do. I mean, medical bills and medications are expensive. So a lot of that, if you’re someone who has just gone through a diagnosis, you know how front loaded those costs can be. So all at once, you might be going to see different doctors and specialists. Burning through maybe a high deductible, or something. Which is sadly very common these days. Getting through all of that testing, and some of those initial treatments.

Angie Alt: Right. And then there’s also the higher cost of insurance. Even though we have laws that guard against things like preexisting conditions with coinsurance and high deductibles, it means that usually folks with chronic illness do end up paying more.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. There’s also an income loss due to lack of ability to work. A lot of people don’t really realize this lack of opportunity cost. But really, sometimes it can involve the work of your partner or your spouse. Sometimes it can affect your ability to do childcare or household duties. Most autoimmune diseases come with some level of disability, and that can come through in either a lack of ability to actually hold a job at a certain amount of hours per week. It can also mean that you have to pay others or get help from other people in your family to do work around the house, which can be expensive. Both emotionally and financially.

Angie Alt: Right. And then there’s the cost of natural or alternative treatments. Which, unfortunately, means usually paying out of pocket. We don’t have good systems in place that allow proper reimbursement through our insurance system for most of those kinds of treatments. And the fact is that combining the best of those natural and alternative treatments with conventional and do-it-yourself methods means that this can be really; a no-brainer. Something you definitely want to take on so you can heal. But it can be really expensive. This includes things like paying for supplements, and paying for different kinds of therapies. Maybe massage, acupuncture, things of that nature.

2. Budgeting benefits on AIP [7:13]

Mickey Trescott: All these things considered, why those of us with autoimmune disease have a little more of a tricky time making a budget. Why should we do it in the first place? We have some reasons for you guys.

Budgeting really stops overspending and prevents debt. So when you know exactly how much money you have coming in, and you’ve planned to use that money in a variety of categories and predictably. Of course, you can’t control the future, and you never really know exactly what’s going to happen. But that act of actually planning helps you not to spend too much of your money, and prevents you from needing to go into debt.

How many of us have not made a plan and then unexpectedly, but then actually kind of expectedly being like; oh, this expense came up. And I kind of knew it was coming but I didn’t really plan for it. You might end up in a situation where you have to go into debt for that.

Angie Alt: Right. Also budgeting can help us reach our goals. For instance, proactively saving. Having that budgetary line item in place helps us kind of get there and reach those goals in reasonable timelines instead of haphazardly putting $10 in the savings account every couple of months.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. It also helps you stop worrying. So, I don’t know about you, but I’ve had a lot of anxiety since my diagnosis and initial path with autoimmune disease. Just because, financially it was really difficult for me back then. And even though I’m healthy now, sometimes I worry that if I got sick again, I wouldn’t have the money to kind of figure it out. And I’m anticipating that stress.

So, being able to move towards and reach some of those savings goals might help you stop worrying and relieve some of that anxiety related to it.

Angie Alt: Right. And kind of along those same lines, it helps you have more flexibility. I think when you kind of have planned your expenses, and you have allocated pots of money that are there for certain kind of expenses, it just allows you to be a lot more flexible. And should something really large and unexpected come up, you have more leeway between those different budget line items to kind of move things around, if necessary.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And lastly, it gives you more control over your money. You know exactly where it’s going, instead of feeling kind of like a passenger every month, paying all your bills and kind of not understanding where everything goes. You understand, actually, now that I have a budget, I know exactly where everything is going. And you can make changes and be informed in that way.

3. Personal budgeting stories [9:41]

Angie Alt: Right. So, Mickey, maybe we can share a little bit about our personal approaches to budgeting and especially how things looked when we first started on this path.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So I talked a little bit about my diagnosis, and how that financially impacted us. It was very stressful, understandably. Just the diagnosis in and of itself is really stressful. But at the time, my husband and I were both working minimum wage plus tips jobs in a major city. Living paycheck to paycheck. By all means, we were not poor. We were able to pay the bills that we had. We were able to have a great lifestyle that we were happy with.

But when I started to get sick and I wasn’t able to bring in that income, I lost my job. And then we added in all the medical stuff. Which, when I got diagnosed, I didn’t have insurance. So I was paying everything out of pocket. I ended up going into a lot of debt because I didn’t really have any savings, and I didn’t really have a budget, and I didn’t really plan. That kind of threw me for a loop, that six months of my life.

But coming out of it, I learned that I needed to make some big decisions. Like that flexibility piece we were talking about. My husband and I made some decisions that were able to help us pay back that debt just by choosing to go without certain things. For instance, we didn’t have a car. At one point we relied on just using the bus or riding our bike.

Another thing we did was we had roommates in a house that we rented instead of having the house to ourselves. Another thing we did was not go out to eat ever. And we didn’t go on any vacations. So I consider even making so little money in that phase of my life, I realized the position of privilege that I was in being able to be flexible in that way. And yes it was stressful. My husband was then the sole provider. We were taking on debt. We didn’t know how long I would be sick. And then the food budget was just increasing, increasing, increasing. Which is really what we’re going to be talking about today.

But in the end, it all worked out. We were able to pay off that debt. I was able to go back to work. And me feeling better was a really important part of that process; to realize that I was one day going to be able to recover enough to then go back to work and kind of get the cycle working out. So I kind of didn’t have a plan. And got caught in a little bit of a hard place. But that flexibility was really how we got unstuck. What about you, Angie?

Angie Alt: So, for me, the flexibility piece didn’t exist as much. When I started to get sick, we had already come into our marriage with pretty significant education debt. And we had good jobs. Especially my husband, had a great job. And we had really great insurance. We were very, very lucky to have such good insurance coverage. But it meant that I was really limited to pursue anything kind of outside of what was covered within our insurance situation, because we had a lot of debt already to deal with.

So it meant that I had to be really creative within the insurance; what was covered within the insurance. And I had to get really high mileage, basically, out of all of my appointments with my doctors, and be really, really well prepared, and be a really strong advocate for myself. I had to spend a lot of time working with the insurance company, trying to navigate that process. Which can be really frustrating and really difficult, especially when you’re sick. But I was limited in terms of the flexibility.

And later, when we decided that we would choose to take on some more debt for some of those treatments and some of that help that was outside of the insurance system, we really had to buckle down in other areas in order to be able to meet all of our responsibilities with that debt.

Over time, that has eased a lot. We’re not in quite the same situation as we were before. Especially because I was able to go back to work and make a better living than I did previously, when I wasn’t so sick anymore. That made a really big difference for us. But it was not a simple process.

Mickey Trescott: And a lot of these transitions, and during the diagnosis and kind of what followed. We’ve gone without a lot of things and made a lot of choices so that we could afford good food. Would you say that applies to you, Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah, for sure. For instance, until only about three years ago, we only had one car. We drove an early 2000 Honda Civic, and that’s all we had. My husband commuted back and forth to his work in the city using the commuter buses, or the train. We were really just relying on that. We didn’t really take any significant vacations. Anything that was more than a weekend drive or something away. We also really kind of cut certain line items from our budget. Things like new clothes and those kinds of extras. We just made do the best we could with what was in front of us.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, something that really shifted for us, as far as that flexibility pieces. Before I got sick, I wouldn’t say we ate out an incredible amount. But we definitely were doing a lot of the quick, fast-ish food, but not quite fast food. Like Chipotle type eating out. Fairly often. And when I got sick and I had to change everything about what I ate, one of those unintended benefits was that we kind of wiped out the whole restaurants and eating out.

And like I said, we didn’t really have a lot of money to spend on eating out. But just transitioning that to the food budget actually ended up making it so that we were spending the same amount of money that we’ve always been spending on food. We’re just spending it on better, higher quality groceries, and cooking the food instead of going out to eat.

Angie Alt: Yeah, that’s absolutely true for us, as well. I mean, we probably went out four to five times a month on average, and that changed to four to five times, maybe, a year on average.

4. Benefit of minimalism [15:58]

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And something else that happened for us, personally. We started to kind of take on and embrace minimalism. So we didn’t give away or sell everything that we owned and live in a tiny house, by any means. But we definitely made a conscious effort to buy durable and affordable products that last, and usually on sale. So actually some of them ended up not being that affordable.

But things like cast iron Dutch oven. I would know that would make cooking for AIP be so much easier. And yes, it’s a few hundred dollars for a really high quality one. But what I would do is save up, and wait until I got it, and then look at Sur La Table when they’re having their 40% off sale. Go in and grab that, knowing that I’m going to have it for maybe 10, 20 years.

And when you break down that few hundred-dollar cost by that amount of time; as long as you buy the right one, and it’s well made, and durable, and has a great warranty, and you’re actually going to use it. Those types of things; I still have a lot of those great cooking tools that I bought piece by piece in the beginning. Because of that minimalism thing. And then also with the clothes. Not shopping, not having too much stuff. Only having the stuff that we need. I think that relieves a lot of stress in a different way. Not having clutter and stuff. But that’s another topic.

Angie Alt: Yeah. I mean, we’ve done that probably to an extent that worked for our family at the time. And at different points, it was more a match to our lifestyle than others. It’s hard to go too minimalist with a child in the house. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Angie Alt: There’s all kinds of things that go along with that. But I mean, for instance. While we were living in Africa, that was definitely a part of our life. And for that very, very early part of me getting sick, it definitely made a difference.

We also minimized a lot of repeat expenses that add up. For instance, we didn’t go out for cocktails all the time. We didn’t go to the movies. We didn’t go to the salon. I didn’t get my nails done regularly. Honestly, probably I should have gotten my hair cut a little more often than I did. We minimized all that as much as possible.

I didn’t spend a lot on any beauty products. And you know, I really still don’t. That kind of became something that, even when my budget could maybe afford a bit more of that, I still didn’t really bring that on board. We weren’t running to the store and grabbing 8 bottles of kombucha a week. Things like that. Those little expenses seem very small in the moment, but it can add up to hundreds of dollars in a year.

5. An investment in your future health [18:53]

Angie Alt: You can kind of comment here, too, Mickey and let them know if you feel this way. But I feel like investing up front in my healing meant that I could work more in the future. And I had more energy to give to my work. I had more ability to be pretty darned productive and very creative in ways that I wasn’t able to be before. So even though it was probably costing money that was really stretching us thin in the beginning. In the end, it has paid off because I was able to really start a whole new career and pour a lot of my life blood, basically, into it. That I couldn’t have done before, had I not put this much into my healing.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I totally agree. And I definitely remember a time in my life and my recovery where I made the decision to continue the level of eating well and medical care, like natural treatments that were out of pocket. Even though that month to month period, we couldn’t afford it. We were going into debt every month. Just having faith that in three or six months, I would hopefully be on the same trajectory that I had experienced early with AIP, and that I would be able to go to work. So, that was definitely a conscious effort. And you know, definitely an act of faith.

We’re not saying you can just say, I’m going to pay for this and you’re guaranteed results. Definitely investing up front, I knew if the quality of the food went up and I did the right things, then hopefully that would give me more energy. And it did. I was able to go back to work part time, and then full time. And then also back to school, and all that stuff. And then I met this lady. We haven’t stopped since. {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs} But I guess, the thing for me too. In hindsight, I realize that I probably have more energy and ability and clear thought and creativity and all those things than I even did before I got sick. I’m not saying; just like you said. I’m not saying that this happens for everyone. And that it will supercharge you into some amazing career. Or you’ll go back to your former job and be like a rocket ship to the top, and get all these raises and promotions or anything like that.

I’m not saying that that necessarily happens to everybody. But it really transformed my ability. My baseline is totally different. I didn’t even consider before I got sick that I would ever work at the level that I do now. And I think that’s all down to that investment that I put into my health.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. And continued investment. I feel the same way, Angie. I feel like my brain works completely differently, like it did. Sometimes the body is a little far behind and that’s kind of a Hashi thing. But my brain works again. And I’m able to do a level of critical thinking and planning that I just wasn’t capable of for years.

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: And that’s very useful. That’s an asset.

Alright. So we know that there are situations where some of these simple, low-lying adjustments are not enough. We can’t speak for everyone. Our personal experience is what it is. But digging in to make AIP, or any healing dietary protocol work, for those with extremely limited incomes and other financial barriers to wellness is up next. So if you guys are kind of listening to us; and you’re like; man, that sounds nice. We’ve got some info for you in our next segment. See you soon.

Mickey Trescott: A quick work from our title sponsor this season, the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA is a holistic nutrition school that reconnects people to healing foods and vibrant health. They provide practical, affordable, and transformative nutrition education through their courses, empowering you to launch a new career and heal yourself, your community, and the world.

The NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners; like me, I’m an NTP; and consultants, like Angie, she’s an NTC. Emphasizing a bioindividual nutrition. The NTC program is fully online, and the NTP program has workshops in the US, Canada, and Australia. There are scholarships, payment plans, and financial aid available to make both programs accessible to all who desire a comprehensive, holistic nutrition education.

To learn more, visit their website at www.NutritionalTherapy.com. Be sure to check out their free 7-day nutritional therapy 101 course.

6. Introducing our guest, Jenny Harris [23:41]

Angie Alt: Hey everybody! We’re back. Today we are speaking to Jenny Harris, who is a registered dietician nutritionist and trained chef, living in Seattle, Washington. She received her masters of science in nutrition from Bastyr University. Her Bachelors degree of nutrition in public health from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And completed her dietetic internship at Virginia Polytech Institute and State University.

She also holds an associates degree in culinary arts from the New England Culinary Institute. She’s a member of the dietitians in integrative and functional medicine and the food and culinary professional dietetic practice groups of the academy of nutrition and dietetics. And if that isn’t enough, for the last 10 years, Jenny has mainly worked in community health. Serving low income women and families through the WIC program in Seattle, Washington. Last year, she became one of our very first graduates of the AIP Certified Coach program, and that is how we found out about the awesome work she does.

Today, we’re going to go deep with Jenny about how to make healing protocols work, even on very low and fixed incomes. She’ll be sharing with us the specifics of government assistance programs in the US. The realities that people are facing when they need the assistance, and how eating a healing diet should not be exclusive. Welcome, Jenny.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Yeah, welcome Jenny. Thanks so much for being here.

Jenny Harris: Thanks for having me.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. So the first question, a lot of our audience like we talked about in the first half of this podcast. A lot of us find ourselves in the middle, and maybe not knowing a lot about these government assistant programs. Can you maybe give us a little bit more of a definition of some of these programs and kind of what they entail?

Jenny Harris: Sure, sure. My experience has mainly been working with the WIC program, as it’s mostly known. The full name is the supplemental nutrition program for women, children, and infants. And it is mainly geared towards anyone that’s pregnant, or postpartum, and then infants, and children under age 5. Specifically, you look at your gross income to meet guidelines for that program. And you’d be at or below 185% of the federal poverty level. In addition, you would have to meet a nutrition risk. Also have a proof of address, in a particular state where you are applying.

In addition to that, there is the SNAP program, which is the supplemental nutrition assistance program, known as food stamps. It was previously known as. You would go in and your income would be assessed as well. And for that program, you would be at or below 130%. There are some other qualifications for that program.

And then in addition, there’s social security. And that program, the lowest age you would need to be is 62. It’s based on the number of years that you’re working, and you receive credits that you would need to get retirement benefits.

Mickey Trescott: Great. And the difference maybe between WIC and SNAP and social security, as far as what people can get for food. My understanding is that WIC has the strictest list of maybe what people can buy with the money, and then food stamps is a little bit more lax. And then social security, people can use that money for whatever they want. Is that right?

Jenny Harris: Sure. Yes, that is correct. The WIC program has specific foods that have been chosen to meet certain nutrition requirements for those particular times in life. Whether you’re pregnant or postpartum, as a child or an infant. The SNAP benefits, it’s a little bit more broad range of items to choose from. And as far as social security goes, I’m not quite as familiar with that. But that sounds right.

Mickey Trescott: And as far as WIC, that might provide the most difficulty, I think, with working within a healing diet. Because they do have certain foods that you can buy. And then with food stamps, I think most programs; at least the ones that I know of here in Oregon where I live. As long as they’re buying food, it doesn’t matter what they’re buying.

Jenny Harris: Yeah, you would have to look at; WIC is evolving more and more. But they have, now, substitutions for different things. For example, if you’re a vegetarian you can choose to get soy milk now, instead of just regular milk, as an option. So there are different options you can look at within the program.

Mickey Trescott: OK. And I’m just kind of looking up some of these requirements. The gross income below 185% of poverty level for WIC, and 130%. The 2017 numbers are looking at $20,000 to $15,000 for food stamps. So those are pretty low-income levels. But just for anyone listening, if they’re thinking maybe they might qualify for that and they don’t know. That might be something to look into.

Jenny Harris: Definitely. And you can do that all online. You can go in and look at your eligibility.

7. Roadblocks and challenges [29:05]

Angie Alt: So, Jenny, we were talking in the last segment about some of the realities that come up for folks like us, who have autoimmune disease or chronic illness of some kind. And the challenges that that presents just all on its own, in terms of budget considerations when we’re getting ready to adopt a healing protocol. And I think there’s probably some special stressors and issues that come up for folks with a really limited income, or even no income. And maybe you can talk with us about that a little bit. I think it’s good for everybody to have a little bit of a reality check about the extra barriers we’re talking about here.

Jenny Harris: You know, looking at housing situation. With a special diet, and you’re living or you’re not knowing where you’re living. Moving from place to place, or possibly staying with friends. Or you have a large group of people living together. Even the possibility of being in a shelter. You have some limitations on what’s available to you, as far as a kitchen. Or how you can store your food, particularly. Depending on where you’re living.

I think some other things to think about would be just families that are working and possibly going to school at the same time. Which I know, a lot of people do. That just brings up some limited time for meal prep and shopping. And also thinking about the idea, now, of food deserts. Where just access to a grocery store, you may be looking at shopping at a convenience store, or possibly using a food bank for your grocery needs.

When you’re looking for a provider, just looking at your accessibility. And then I think, just something to think about, looking at cultural needs. Food needs related to religion. Think all of those can factor in with someone who is potentially wanting to do AIP or a healing diet.

Angie Alt: Thanks so much. I think that’s good for everybody to kind of think about that long list of extra barriers that might exist there.

8. Finding local assistance [31:05]

Mickey Trescott: Can you tell us a little bit more about how people can become more aware of some local, low or no-cost healthcare resources? Because, like we talked about before. The healthcare part and the food budget part are usually competing. And sometimes if people can take advantage of some of these programs where they get assistance in the food side, if they can also make that happen in the healthcare side, that might help them have more access to all of this.

Jenny Harris: I do think that’s really important to consider. Making that first step, whether it’s connecting to a WIC clinic or a public health clinic. Your local community center. Those are great places to start. Anyone that’s in need of medical care, or needs a provider. A great place to start is to go into a public health clinic. All kinds of services there. Seeing a nurse. Many times these clinics also have medical clinics available. And they also have services where they can help you get signed up for health care.

Beyond that, there are programs out there. Even connected to your local hospital. I did some research, and actually didn’t even realize this. But I looked into a Swedish medical center, which is where I used to work in Seattle. They actually cover healthcare costs for anyone that would meet that profile.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; Jenny, actually I have a personal story to talk about Swedish. Actually, when I was very sick, one of my ER visits was actually at Swedish when I lived in Seattle. And at that time, I didn’t make a lot of money. Angie and I talked about in the first section of this podcast. My husband and I both made minimum wage. And when I got that bill from the emergency room, I didn’t have insurance. And I talked to their billing department, and they said; oh, you should submit a request for financial assistance. And I did that. And they actually covered 90% of the bill.

At that time, I wasn’t below the federal poverty line. But I found their assistance was much more generous. And that actually ended up working out really well for me. And actually, my next two hospital visits, I had insurance, and financially it was much worse for me because of coinsurance and that kind of stuff. So yeah, definitely people should reach out to the different institutions that they’re getting health care from. Because you never really know what kind of programs they have in place.

Jenny Harris: It was exciting to see that, yes. They have such a generous beyond to help people. I think when I was looking; I looked up a few programs. Even just Googling in your local area. Low income, health care assistance. Along those lines. I was able to find, within the Seattle area, there are some organizations like Bastyr that have clinics. They actually go into different community clinic sites around the city and provide, in many cases, free health care services.

So, I think that depending on where you’re living. It would just be a matter of researching that. But I think reaching out to different clinics and just asking is a great place to start.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, and even some of these natural health care centers. I know Bastyr up in Washington state, and a lot of schools will offer acupuncture or massage therapy or whatever for a reduced rate for working with a student. I’ve known people that have seen doctors at the Bastyr clinic that are still in their training. Obviously supervised by licensed doctors. But those kinds of options too, are totally out there and available for people that need it.

Jenny Harris: Also looking into if you’re a senior or that age group, you can look at senior nutrition services that are out there.

Mickey Trescott: Sometimes for people, it’s a matter of pride and looking out for these resources and asking. But I’ve seen signs. My local dental clinic had a sign a couple of weeks ago that said; “Free community tooth check in.” So anyone could go in and see kind of what they’re dealing with in their mouth. A lot of practitioners offer charity work. Be on the look out for that. Because even my grandfather, who is a rheumatologist. He sees patients one day a week that are low income at no cost. So that can be really helpful.

9. AIP modifications on low-budget [35:44]

Angie Alt: Ok. So, that’s a really interesting discussion about the healthcare side of it. And all the different possibilities for folks to explore out there. But let’s get into the meat of this discussion. How do we make AIP work for folks on very low budget? Jenny, we’d love to kind of dig into this with you and talk about some ideas. I think for Mickey and mine point of view, there are some smart modifications to make here. But we’d love to hear your ideas.

Jenny Harris: I think in thinking about this, I feel like I went back to thinking about how my grandmother used to cook.

Mickey Trescott: Right.

Jenny Harris: Thinking about ways that she would be efficient and save. Really, the things that you all highlight in your book, as far as the nutrient powerhouse foods, really are, for the most part, very affordable. When you’re looking at organ meats. If you’re using bones for broths. That was one thing that my grandmother always did. Depending on where you’re located or what’s available to you. Fish, whether you’re in the interior of the country, or the exterior. You can potentially find those, depending on the season, at a decent cost.

And then also looking at, if you have homemade fermented foods. And also just vegetables in season. But I think all of those things; if you’re working with AIP, I think it would be just a matter of cooking technique.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I think that’s really valid, Jenny. I know we kind of have a part to play in setting the framework of kind of what AIP is and what it isn’t. But I think this is kind of a great situation to modify the AIP template. And some of you guys listening might find it a little controversial. But I think if someone is faced with the decision of doing a healing diet that is heavily modified to fit their income and not doing it all. They should try to do that modification.

I definitely think things like white rice; which people can cook that in broth and fat. That might not even; just allowing it in the elimination diet for people that don’t have access to enough meet and vegetables to fill their diet. That could totally be possible. Even some properly prepared beans. So soaked, sprouted, that kind of thing. Which I know beans are included on WIC, so it’s one of those foods that might be hard for some people to figure out which foods qualify.

Eggs, too. A lot of people are very sensitive to them. What do you guys think?

Angie Alt: Right. I think if I was working with a client who was very low income, and they had the opportunity to get eggs. Either with their WIC benefits or food stamp benefits, I would be encouraging them to find the best quality that they can afford within that food budget. And give them a shot. Because they are so nutrient dense, and they are a good source of inexpensive protein.

Of course, if it turns out that they have some really obvious sensitivities, we might want to work around that. But I think they’re one of the potential modifications that are probably worth making.

Jenny Harris: I can agree with all of that. There’s definitely another source of protein that I think a lot of people have access to. I know through WIC you receive peanut butter. So that would be something also to think about.

Angie Alt: I remember, too. There was definitely a part of my life where I needed both WIC and SNAP benefits. And it was when my daughter was quite young. And I remember that there was a lot of canned seafood products that were available with the WIC checks. Tuna and things like that. If you just look carefully for brands without additives like soy and everything, I think that’s a great way to get in some inexpensive protein and stretch those benefits.

Jenny Harris: Yes, definitely. And I think that’s a great source of fish and those omega-3s that aren’t as easily accessible.

Angie Alt: I mean, if you’re trying to go to the fish counter and get wild-caught salmon filets, that almost blows my budget. So I can totally understand that. I think there’s also an important piece to raise here, you guys. Which is; conventionally raised meats, fruits, and vegetables are acceptable. I think we get a little too caught up in perfectionism when it comes to AIP. And there definitely are levels of good, better, and best.

And if you choose conventionally raised, because that’s the most affordable, and not organic, then go for it. It’s better that you’re eating some kind of protein, and you’re getting some kind of fruits and vegetables, then you’re totally avoiding them because they’re not perfectly grass-fed or organic or whatever.

If you’re going to go for conventionally raised meats, you’re going to want to trim the fat, and kind of try to avoid that fat. If you’re going to go for conventionally raised, non-organic fruits and vegetables, then whenever possible choose produce that can be peeled. A lot of the pesticides and other chemicals that we’re trying to avoid in non-organic fruits and vegetables are there with that peel. So if you can peel, that will help reduce your exposure to it.

But I think, if you can buy a bunch of non-organic carrots that are on sale and stretch your meals for a whole week, and contribute to your overall healing that way, it’s much better to do that than to hold out to save up enough money for the organic.

Jenny Harris: Sure. And I do think just learning, too, what fruits and vegetables are in season. And also, if you are using the SNAP benefits. Those are actually, in various programs across the country, you can use those at farmer’s markets. You can actually get double the amount. If you’re spending $10, you can actually get $20 worth of fruits and vegetables using those SNAP benefits.

Angie Alt: Yeah, that’s such a big change to the program from when I needed to access it. And I think it’s awesome, and so wonderful that we’re putting that opportunity out there.

You know, I saw another idea that I think is such a good one. I think you kind of pointed us out to a little bit earlier, Jenny. Looking for discount stores, or grocery outlets or shopping Asian or Hispanic markets. When I first started AIP, I was living in the Bay area in California, and I found some Hispanic and Asian markets that were incredible in terms of what I could get with the produce. I mean, I could go in there with like $50 and come out with so much produce. It was way more than I really thought I could get at a regular store. And it stretched our family’s food budget really far. And made a huge difference. So I don’t think folks should write off those stores.

Jenny Harris: In my experience with WIC, and working with a lot of families from different cultures, often I would be asking what they eat. A lot of cultures will eat just basically meat and vegetables, for the most part, with spices. I love going in and being kind of pushed to try new and different vegetables.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it’s really exciting, too, now that we have some different resources in the AIP community with different recipe developers that are kind of coming up with some of these more ethnically inspired meals that I think make people from those communities feel a little bit more like they can cook in the flavors that feel traditional and good to them without so much having to come up with it themselves, you know what I mean.

Jenny Harris: I feel similarly, Angie, when I go shopping at the Asian market here that’s close by my house. I do feel similarly, as far as feeling like I’m really getting a lot more for my money.

Angie Alt: Yeah, a lot of bang for your buck. Well, Jenny will you let our listeners know what your up to in your work currently, and where they can find you online?

Jenny Harris: Sure. Currently I’m transitioning. I have been a stay at home mom for a little over a year. And have now started up a website and a blog; FoodyNutrition.com. And I’m just starting there. I’m hoping to work with the public in the future. I’m excited and learning more about functional medicine.

Mickey Trescott: That’s awesome. We definitely need more functional medicine real food RDs. So we’re super excited about what you’re doing, Jenny.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Jenny Harris: Thanks.

Angie Alt: Thanks again for agreeing to have this conversation with us today, Jenny. You guys, we’ll be back next week. Take care everyone.

Mickey Trescott: Bye!

Jenny Harris: Bye.

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

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The post S3 E7 – Food Budgeting + Prioritizing w/ Jenny Harris appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 6 is not just about a clever way to maximize your food budget, but one of the biggest struggles our culture faces when it comes to sustainable food production: reducing food waste.

We are discussing how to make the most of all the ingredients we’ve talked about sourcing in the previous episodes so you can best minimize waste and reuse leftovers. Our guest is Rachael Bryant from the blog Meatified, who shares some excellent advice and personal experience around creating a low-waste kitchen. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. Ways to reduce waste [4:23]
2. Food storage methods [12:52]
3. Our guest, Rachael Bryant from Meatified [22:44]
4. Reimagining leftovers [29:30]
5. Using food “scraps” [39:23]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Angie here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 3. How are you doing today, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I’m doing great. Cozied up here on kind of a cool day. Ready for some warmer weather in the Pacific Northwest.

Angie Alt: Oh, gosh. Me too. I feel like it’s the longest winter. Which is ridiculous, because it really hasn’t been that bad. But I’m really ready for the sun.

Mickey Trescott: Me too.

Angie Alt: Ok. Today we’re continuing our discussion related to the topic this season; real food on a budget. This episode is going to be about how to make the most out of all of the ingredients we’ve talked about sourcing in the previous episodes. It’s all about minimizing waste, and reusing leftovers.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So after we figured out how to get our hands on all of these really well-sourced, healthy, nutrient dense, and sometimes a little bit expensive ingredients, depending on kind of how we’ve sourced. We have to figure out how we’re going to maximize them, and use every last bit.

So, you guys. We as a culture have a really massive problem with food waste. I looked up a couple of stats, and globally we waste 1.3 trillion tons of food per year. Which, that is just insane. And it’s estimated that up to 50% of food that’s produced; that’s either meat that’s raised or produce that’s grown, or processed food that’s made, is not even eaten. So, I don’t know how that makes you guys feel, but I feel kind of disgusted by that.

Angie Alt: Yeah, it makes mew ant to cry, to be honest. Especially; my experience living in developing countries and everything and seeing this problem. In the United States we have a particularly bad problem with food waste. So much so that our government even has an initiative to try to reduce it by the year 2020, I believe. I have to check in on that and read that again.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I think it’s 30% by 2030.

Angie Alt: 30% by 2030. Ok. Yeah, when I reflect on all of that, it’s literally heart breaking for me. And I kind of have a little bit of a problem about it.

Mickey Trescott: Part of it is within the food system. Part of that food isn’t even being purchased. So a lot of it is wasted in the field. Maybe because of the timing of harvesting, or the market, or in the factory where they process food, or whatever. But we have a lot of angles to tackle this. And the on that we are most poised to handle is actually in our own homes, and our kitchens, and how we waste food through the course of planning and cooking our meals every day.

Angie Alt: Right. We could make a big impact. If we each did that, it would be huge!

1. Ways to reduce waste [4:23]

Mickey Trescott: Today we’re going to talk in this first segment of this episode about some ways that we can reduce waste. And so the first one; we’re going to sound like a broken record, guys. But planning. Planning is really key. Right Angie?

Angie Alt: Yep. Meal planning all the way. I know we’ve talked about it like 800 times this season, you guys. But it’s absolutely key.

Mickey Trescott: You know, meal planning; Angie’s a little more of a meal planner than I am. But I do know that when I make a meal plan, what I tend to do is take inventory of what I have and when it expires. How I can use it up before it goes bad. And then also making a list of what to buy. I’m not just wandering around the grocery store being like; oh, these Brussel sprouts look good. I have a list, and I know exactly the quantities that I need. And that first act of meal planning; it organizes all of that into a plan that I can follow. And I’m much less likely to have waste at the end of it.

Angie Alt: Yep. Really the smart way to go. And you can pay attention to what’s in your deep freeze, and what’s in your pantry before you go so that you don’t end up with doubles of things and then some of it going bad because you forgot what you had available. It’s just really the smart way to go in terms of planning.

The next step that kind of goes along with meal planning is batch cooking. Which we’ve talked about before. Mickey does a little more batch cooking than I do. We’re kind of opposite in that way. I do a little more meal planning and a little less batch cooking; she does more batch cooking and less meal planning. But this is kind of the next important step in trying to reduce waste at home.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. When you batch cook, you’re using a larger quantity of ingredients. So I find if I make a batch of chili I might use one or two whole yellow onions, for example. Where if I’m making like a one-off meal, that’s not a big batch, I might use a quarter or half of an onion. And then that onion is sitting in my fridge.

Or, if I have a bag of carrots, I might use the whole bag of carrots in a batch cook versus a couple of carrots and then having the rest of them potentially go bad. So, through batch cooking you can make a bunch of food. And then whatever you’re not going to eat in the next few days, you can just freeze immediately. So you can really visually see; ok, all of those ingredients that I bought have been turned into meals. Which are perfectly portioned. I can visualize them in the fridge. And then whatever I’m not going to use, I can freeze either immediately or if I get a couple of days in, maybe I unexpectedly eat out and I don’t need one of those meals. Guess what? Pop it in the freezer. You know? It’s a really easy way to kind of get a handle on that whole meal situation.

Angie Alt: Right. The next topic in terms of reducing waste is how you shop, right?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And if you meal plan, or batch cook, or both, I think that can really inform your shopping in a way that, like I said before, avoids impulse buys. When I’m doing more meal planning, I’m definitely going right for the things I’m looking for. And I’m buying exactly what I need. So like I was talking about with the carrots; if I only need a couple of carrots for a recipe and I have all my meals planned for the week, I know that that bag of carrots, unless I’m maybe going to want to be eating carrots as a snack with some pate or something, I’m not really going to need that whole bag. So I might just go for the bulk carrots and get a couple.

Same thing with beets. I might get one beet for a chili instead of getting a whole bunch of beets. So I don’t know if you have any experiences like that, but getting exactly what you need is definitely the way to prevent waste from happening.

Angie Alt: Yeah, for sure. In fact; my husband and I always have a little bit of a disagreement here. Because if I send him out to shop, he’s the guy going out to get the bounty for the family, right, and he buys whatever. If I say, buy apples. I’ll say 4, and he’ll buy 8. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Just in case.

Angie Alt: Yeah, just getting the most in case. So I really pay close attention to the numbers we need, and what we can go through realistically in a week so that there’s no waste.

Mickey Trescott: Or even if there’s a trip coming up. Something that happens a lot in our household. We’ll go out of town for a few days. Which is, you know, not really long enough to have to completely clear your fridge. But it is long enough to where a lot of things don’t last for a few days. And if we do a shop a couple of days before we go out of town, I have to tell my husband; hey. We need to not buy a huge thing of bananas. {laughs} Those are not going to last. So just thinking ahead a little bit with that shopping is really important.

Angie Alt: Right. I think you had some tips, too, Mickey about fridge organization when you’re bringing home all of those groceries. How do you arrange?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so it can be really tempting to put all of that new, fresh stuff kind of throw it right in the front and throw it on top of what’s there. But that’s kind of how things get buried. So, even the way that you organize your fridge and the way that you put your ingredients away can affect how you use them.

Something that I do; I have a very small fridge, so I have to really maximize the way that I use the space. But I only have one drawer, and that’s where I keep all my produce. So what I’ll do is I’ll pull out the drawer, and I’ll put out anything that’s aged in there. And then I’ll put all of the brand new stuff right in the bottom, and I’ll put the stuff that’s older on top so that when I go into the fridge, I see it. And I remember; ok, I need to use those greens up. Or those mushrooms are ready to go. So everything at the top is kind of the priority. And those oldest items are kind of the most visible.

Angie Alt: Right. Super smart.

Mickey Trescott: If you guys have done some reintros, and you’re eating a little bit more of some of the packaged perishables. These might be things like eggs, or yogurt, or things that you’re going to be going through more frequently. There aren’t a lot of those things on the elimination phase. But when you reintroduce foods, that might become an option for you. A good thing is just to make sure that you rotate those.

So like when I buy eggs, I don’t want to put the new eggs on the top. Because then the eggs that are below it might not get eaten in time. So that’s another way to think about it.

Angie Alt: Yeah, I totally do that too. How about using up all the fresh ingredients before you go shopping again? How do you make sure you do this? I know how we approach it in our house. How do you do it in your house, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: You know, we do kind of a fridge dump soup. And something actually going back to batch cooking; I always have batch cooked meals in the freezer available. So when we end up on that last meal, sometimes it’s not literally the last meal. Sometimes I can do a fridge dump soup, which is basically every vegetable or meat that’s in the fridge. I just figure out how to make a soup with that with some broth and some spices. That’s a way to use up all the perishables. And if we’re not literally going to the store that day, I can get us by one more meal with what I have in the freezer. That’s kind of how we do it, making sure all those perishables are totally eaten through.

And sometimes, it’s like a game. Sometimes it’s really fun to kind of figure out; “What can I make with a sweet potato, some broth, and some leftover chicken.” You know?

Angie Alt: Yeah. I actually kind of like that feeling. And it makes my daughter kind of crazy, but we definitely use everything, right down to the very last. My fridge is literally empty. My pantry, other than bulk stuff like maybe some cassava flour is literally empty. We use everything before we go and shop again. And if I have those weird odds and ends, yeah I love the challenge of kind of coming up with that last meal before you shop that’s all the weird stuff. That’s a good feeling to use it up.

I usually will try to make a little bit of a baked something. A little bit of a casserole type thing. Or some kind of a hash with those last bits.

2. Food storage methods [12:52].

Angie Alt: Another important part of reducing waste is storing food correctly, and I think a lot of people might not know about some of these options. And I think, especially in the US. We probably tend to throw stuff out too soon thinking that it’s gone bad. And really, if we would have taken just a little care with storing the food, it would have lasted for a long time.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, there are lots of resources online for you guys, if you’re really curious about storing food. I think Angie and I tend to be on the less conservative side. As far as meat and leftovers and stuff, I would totally agree with Angie. I definitely let my leftovers go sometimes up to a week and it’s fine. Sometimes it needs a little refresh with maybe some new spices and add some different flavors, a sauce or something. But I have no problem eating leftovers. Which I know we’ll talk about in a little bit.

But some things that you guys can do to kind of make the food that you buy last longer; a trick that I learned with herbs. Like fresh cilantro, fresh parsley, fresh basil. The best way to keep those is actually to put them in a little glass or jar of water, kind of like you would a flower arrangement. And then cover them with a plastic bag and kind of tie it tight so they both have that water and a little humidity. It will kind of keep them alive. Because you know how quickly those herbs can go wilty and slimy. They’re so flavorful, and so important in AIP cooking, that I just like to snip a little bit to use in a recipe, and then kind of keep the rest of them alive.

Some things that you might not be aware of actually last a lot longer in the refrigerator. So, while avocados you’re going to want to keep on the counter if you’re ripening them, once they’re close to or they are ripe, they’re going to last a little bit longer in the fridge. Same thing with citrus. I always; and I don’t know if this is just because I live in the Pacific Northwest, and it’s kind of damp here. But my citrus does not last out on the counter more than a few days without going moldy. So I’ll put it in the fridge along with some other fruits, like apples. They tend to stay much more crisp and last longer in there.

And then, if you store your greens with a damp paper towel, that can keep them fresh. I don’t know; do you have any other storage tips, Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah, you know you can store cooked ground meat, fish, and poultry for about two days. And then you need to use it. Red meat is ok up to five days. And like Mickey said, I think she and I tend to be a little less conservative here. I’ll sometimes go up to 7 days there.

Regular leftovers just already prepared meals are usually good for five days in the fridge. Covered in good containers. You can make crackers, or those kinds of foods. Which we don’t tend to eat as much on strict elimination phase AIP. But there are some recipes out there. They’ll stay better longer in airtight containers so they don’t go stale.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And just preventing your food from going bad in the first place, before you get a chance to eat it, that’s a part of reducing waste. Because especially; I don’t buy those clamshell packs of greens just because unless I’m hosting a dinner party and I know that I’m going to have 8 people eating a ton of salad, they just don’t keep for me more than 2 days, and they go slimy, and I end up having to throw some of it away.

So I prefer instead getting a big head of lettuce and chopping it. It’s a little more work, but I don’t have that food waste that way. So you guys just kind of have to figure out what works for you there to store things.

Angie Alt: Right. I think we kind of already touched on freezing meals and ingredients before they go bad. That’s always smart. What about eating the odd bits of vegetables. Do you have some thoughts here, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Well, you know, I think sometimes we have such a sterile approach to food. Especially; we’re talking organically produced food. So this recommendation definitely changes if you can’t afford organic vegetables and you’re buying some conventional, we definitely advocate for peeling in that case. But if you’re buying organic fruits and veggies, I am definitely known to eat some of the odd bits of the vegetables. So things like kiwi skins.

Now they actually have those kiwis that are actually smooth on the outside. Bit I’ve always, even the fuzzy ones. I don’t mind the way it tastes. And there’s nutrients there, and fiber. Just peeling a kiwi, you lose a lot of it there. So, that also applies to other vegetables. I don’t peel carrots. I only peel the very top of beets. So I just slice the very top off. And any of that part that’s maybe kind of muddy where it was on the surface of the soil. Sometimes it’s a little mossy or muddy there. I’ll kind of slice that part off. But anything under there, you know, I just scrub it really well. Make sure there’s no dirt there. But I don’t peel it, because that creates waste.

Same thing if you’re going to be buying some fresh bunches of farm carrots or farm beets. You can actually eat carrot tops. I actually think Sarah Ballantyne has some recipes for sautéed carrot greens. Same thing with the beet greens. They’re just like chard. They don’t save very long, so when you buy them attached to the beet. I’ll usually cook the beet, and then use the greens in the same recipe. But just making sure to kind of use all of those odd bits, and waste as little as we can. You can even go as far as using orange peels and lemon peels to preserve them and use them in other recipes and things like that.

Angie Alt: Right. I think lastly is kind of buying the “ugly” veggies or discounted meat. This is a biggie for me. I do this a lot. This produce isn’t really sold. It’s usually wasted, because it doesn’t look perfect enough. And that to me is crime number one. I literally feel like it’s criminal. So I’ll grab that stuff, and buy it on purpose. And I have, more than once, had a checker say; “Oh, these apples are bruised.” Or whatever. “Do you want to get rid of these and replace them with something nicer.” And I always say no. I want it. Because I know it’s just going to get thrown away.

And if you really are opposed to that, you can cut those little ugly bits off and use the rest of the fruit.

Mickey Trescott: Totally. And the best-case scenario, the stores will have; and I think this is becoming more common. Where they’ll separate out the ugly veggies or fruits, and have them at a discounted price. Because a lot of people aren’t going to be activists, like you are Angie, and buy ugly produce just because they want to. If they’re incentivized with a lower cost. Or if you frequent your grocer and you’re like; “Hey, if you guys end up with a bunch of ugly apples at the end of the season, I’ll buy them at a discount.” Maybe you can use a dehydrator, or make some applesauce and freeze it. Whatever. Be creative that way. That’s definitely a great way to even save money, and reduce the waste there.

Angie Alt: That’s it for the first half of this episode. You guys, we’ll be back after the break with a guest who will help us talk about even more creative and specific ways to reduce our waste. She is a maven in this area. Be right back.

Mickey Trescott: A quick word from our title sponsor this season,The Nutritional Therapy Association. Angie and I both graduated from two different NTA programs. And even though that was a while ago, we can still remember what it was like to be students. Angie, what made you go down this path in the first place?

Angie Alt: Well it was you, Mick. I could see that their programs had greatly expanded your knowledge base and expertise. And I was already familiar with, and aligned with, their philosophy. I was kind of sold. But then I realized that their NTC course was perfect for my virtual coaching work, I was totally in. How did you decide between the various programs?

Mickey Trescott: What really sealed the deal for me was the NTA’s focus on real food and nutrient density. So, I also found the program really affordable and convenient with the online component. Which they’ve even made a lot easier now with their fully online NTC course that doesn’t have any in-person requirements. So, Angie do you have any favorite memories from your time as a student?

Angie Alt: Oh gosh, this is really hard to narrow down. I had a fantastic, really seasoned instructor, Caroline Berringer, who was so full of information. The way she taught was very enthusiastic, and it made everything stick. And I felt like she embodied the passion I had for helping others with their health.

And it was also my classmates. I went through the program with some really smart and motivated people, and it made me want to give it my all. Mickey, how about you?

Mickey Trescott: I started my NTA training while I was still in the very early days of my recovery. And at the beginning of my 9-month program, I was definitely still having a hard time physically making it through those workshop weekends. But by the end of the program, my health had improved so much that the workshop weekends were feeling really energizing and fun for me, and not draining. Which was really cool to see that transition. And a lot of my classmates, also, noticed a big difference. So that was really fun.

If you guys thing that you might be a good fit for one of NTA’s programs, you can check out their free 7-day nutritional therapy 101 course, and more program information, at www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

3. Our guest, Rachael Bryant from Meatified [22:44]

Angie Alt: Alright, you guys. On to our interview today. We are speaking with the incredible Rachael Bryant. She is the food blogger and recipe developer behind Meatified.com, which is probably the most fun food blog name ever. She’s also the author of the AIP cookbook, Nourish. And she’s also a fantastic food photographer. If you guys aren’t following her on Instagram at Meatified, you need to do yourself a favor and go check it out.

Rachael’s childhood involved a totally different style of eating and “convenience store cooking”, but in adulthood, she took those challenges and transformed her diet and kitchen skills, all while beating back an autoimmune disease. Thanks so much, Rachael, for joining us today.

Rachael Bryant: Hi Mickey and Angie. Thank you so much for having me.

Mickey Trescott: We know that minimizing waste and creative use of leftovers is an area of expertise for you. So we are super excited to pick your brain today.

Angie Alt: Yay! Ok, so let’s jump right in, here. Rachael, let’s start from the top. How did you first get inspired to be so creative in this area of minimizing waste and reusing leftovers?

Rachael Bryant: Honestly, there are two strands to this. Growing up, my mom did not cook at all. So my only real experience of home cooking came from my grandma. She’s the sort of person who, honestly, could make a meal out of nothing. And out of a kitchen that was probably; would probably fit into my guest bathroom two or three times over. I’m not sure how she managed it. So she was this very, very creative person.

But also, growing up in England, she lived through the war and she lived through rationing. You didn’t waste anything. I grew up around that environment where food was precious. Which maybe sounds a bit strange to us now. But it was something that you didn’t take for granted, and you always had to do something with. The way that she did that, in all very practical utilitarian way. But she also did it in such a creative way, and could bring meals to the table based on the contents of a tiny little under the counter fridge and some magic in the background.

That’s really what I wanted to bring into my own kitchen. That mix of practicality, but also creativity, and also fun. She might have been making meals that were very practical, but they were never boring. They were made with love, and that came through.

But the other aspect of cooking for me, in terms of keeping my kitchen stocked, is that I actually live about an hour; at least an hour away, from the nearest grocery store. So when I go grocery shopping, I go, and I try to be prepared for about a week at a time. If I’ve forgotten something, or if I need something, I can’t just zip out and go grab it. So I’ve learned over the years to be adaptable and to be able to work with what I have.

It used to stress me out, I’ll be honest. It’s not all roses. I didn’t pop out of the cooking womb, and be like, “I can do it all, and I’m good at it straight away!” Because I wasn’t. The way I sort of make it fun is I treat it a little bit like a puzzle or a game. It’s like problem solving. I will start with what’s seasonal, or what is on sale, or what I can afford that week, and then sort of build my cart from there. I don’t necessarily go into a grocery store or into the kitchen and have this prearranged idea of what I’m going to do. Does that make sense?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, totally. And actually, that’s something that’s a big reason why we wanted to talk to you, Rachael. Because we know that, Angie and I are more of the meal planning kind of followers. We have more plan based on what we do, and we know that you’re a little more creative, and you like to wing it on the spot. And we realize that there are people out there that like cooking that way, and don’t like adhering to kind of a rigid plan and everything. So I think that speaks to a lot.

Part of eating this way, even if you plan and you have a bunch of food leftover, or if you don’t plan. You’re going to be eating a lot of leftovers. And one of the things we’ve noticed; I don’t know if you’ve noticed this in the community. But some people who say that they don’t like leftovers, or they get sick of eating leftovers. Do you have any comments about that?

Rachael Bryant: Ok, see. I love leftovers. The reason I love leftovers, is the way I look at it, it’s a free meal. You’ve practically got a meal, right there, ready to go that you don’t have to cook. And to be honest, when you have to, like we do, make so much of what we eat from scratch. If I’ve got half a meal, or part of a meal, or a whole meal in the fridge ready to go, I am happy. I am really, really happy, you know?

But I think part of the reason some people feel; “Leftovers; ugh!” Is because they have this idea that it has to mean eating the exact same thing 14 times in a row until it’s gone. You know? They expect to be sick of it because it is repetitive. But I like to think of leftovers more as a starting point. It’s like a base that you have that you can build on. You don’t necessarily have to eat the same thing over and over.

It’s like a choose your own adventure kind of deal, except with food. Which is like two of my favorite things. You’ve got a puzzle and a creative thing over here. And you’ve got the, “I need to eat, where’s my food?” Part of it over here. So like, you know, say you’ve got a whole bunch of roast chicken leftover. And you could sit there and you could eat that roast chicken exactly as it is several times over until you probably never want to see roast chicken again. At least for a couple of weeks, right?

You don’t have to eat it that exact same way. You could shred it and add it to a soup. You could have some cauliflower rice left over, and then the chicken comes into play with that. Maybe you bring in some pesto that you’ve got in the fridge, too. Maybe you’ve got some olives lingering around in your pantry. Maybe you’ve got some lemon. By the time you’ve added a couple of different elements, you can have a completely different dish. So it doesn’t have to be the same thing over and over.

4. Reimagining leftovers [29:30]

Angie Alt: I love that! I love this idea of using leftovers as the starting point. That’s a much more creative way to think about it. I really love that. Maybe, Rachael, you could get into telling us a little bit about that. Reimagining the leftovers. I see you sharing all the time on that amazing Instagram account of yours about different sauces, and marinades, and soups, and spice mixtures that you’ve put together. Maybe you can give us some ideas about how you reimagine leftovers.

Rachael Bryant: So what I like to do; I’m a weirdo, I think, in some respects. Because I don’t like to be super planned out and super organized. It sounds kind of odd when I say it out loud. I don’t like to get into a lot of details. I don’t want to have to make out a weeks’ worth of shopping list, right down to the tiny, tiny details.

What I like to do is always have an assortment of different sauces, or spice blends, or condiments. Basically anything you can add to a meal that would sort of jazz it up without too much effort. So maybe; I have a cheese sauce recipe on my blog. Which is a terrible misnomer, because there’s not really any cheese in it. But it’s like a cheesy, creamy sauce that you can make ahead of time. You can put it in the freezer. You can keep it in the fridge. Or maybe I will have a jar of pesto. Or maybe I might make a double batch of my barbecue sauce.

And I’ve found if you’ve got a couple of different things like that in your fridge, and your freezer, then you can take a very plan base. A protein and a veggie. And then you can start to jazz it up with very little effort. So you’ve got this tool to hand; these condiments. I just call them flavor boosters. Which sounds a little pretentious, but it’s a lot easier than saying sauces, condiments, seasoning blends, oh my!

If you’ve got a couple of these things, you can make them ahead of time. But you’re not stuck in the kitchen for hours batch cooking. It takes maybe 20 minutes to make a batch of cheese sauce and some pesto. Right? So that way I’ve got some things to hand, and I’ve kind of got a plan. But I’m not completely tied down to one set meal, or one way of doing things. Does that make sense?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. It totally makes sense. And actually, I like to kind of play in the balance in between the two. I like to have a little bit of planned stuff, and then I like to see what happens with having some sauces. A lot of times, Rachael, I’ll actually make some little pesto ice cubes or something and even put them in the freezer, so it’s even that one step easier. So I can just pull that out, throw it, and sauté it up with some leftover chicken or whatever.

Rachael Bryant: Exactly. I think there’s this thing that people assume. I think especially because we’re food bloggers. There’s maybe this assumption that I’m cooking a meal every night that has three different elements, and I’m making all of them from scratch. But really, I have a kind of unspoken, unwritten rule where probably for each meal I’m probably only cooking one thing. And then maybe the other elements of my meal are coming from leftovers or coming from things I can make simply.

So, say tonight I’m roasting chicken thighs. Right? I’m only cooking for two people, so I probably only need two or three. But I’ll probably cook myself a whole tray, or 8 or 9. So that I have leftovers. So to start off, maybe I’m cooking that chicken and that’s the one element that I’m making for this meal that I’m actually cooking right this second this evening. Then to round it out, maybe I’ve got some sweet potato in the fridge. Or some rice. Or something that you’ve reintroduced that’s going to add that carb element to the plate. Then maybe I’ll add myself a side salad. Then I’ve got a meal right there, but I’ve only really cooked one thing.

The next day, I can roll this forward. I’ve got this leftover cold chicken. So maybe what I’ll do is I will reheat that in some of my cheese sauce. I can add in maybe some sliced mushrooms and some spinach. And then I’ve got this creamy chicken casserole. But I haven’t really cooked, so much as I’ve brought other elements together. So that’s sort of my base method.

Angie Alt: I love this! It’s like; you’re kind of having the sauces and things like that ready to go to kind of jazz up things as you move forward. It’s like, your batch cooking actually includes a little bit of those things that are helping make the leftovers that much better.

Rachael Bryant: For me, it helps me avoid being bored, but it also helps me from feeling really overwhelmed. Like, oh my goodness. I have to make a meal. Meal capital M. You know? If I think of it less as something that I have to sort of conceive of all at once and it has to be this cohesive fancy thing. And if instead I think of building it as a plate, then that sort of helps me become less overwhelmed.

Again, sometimes I think people assume that I love being in the kitchen. And I’m a food blogger, sure. And I love food, definitely. But even I don’t always want to be in the kitchen. When I started cooking, I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. So if you can get to a point where you are comfortable with just pulling things together and not feel like everything you make has to be perfect or have a recipe title. Or be this massively cohesive thing. I think it frees you up of a lot of emotional energy, too.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Rachael Bryant: Which maybe sounds a little silly when I say “emotional energy.” But I think when you are, maybe really tired and exhausted. Maybe you’re really overwhelmed. Maybe emotionally you know your autoimmune issues are taking a toll in that respect. If you can sort of leg go a little of the weight of expectations, and be like; it is just a meal. You’re building a plate. A little bit at a time. I think that helps to not be so overwhelmed and intimidated.

Angie Alt: Yep. I totally think this is a thing. There are a lot of emotions that go into food, and preparing foods. You have some really good points there, Rachael.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, and I think it’s important for people to realize, too, that food bloggers are not eating these perfectly curated plates of food three meals a day. That’s a big misconception. I’ve met a lot of food bloggers. And while there are people who I think have a little bit more of a visual approach, and enjoy cooking more, and are a little bit more of that kind of foodie type, most people are very utilitarian when it comes to their cooking and getting food on their plates. I’ve been really refreshed, actually, meeting a lot of people in real life and just realize that they, most of the time, eat chicken thighs and broccoli, and a carb on the side of something like I do. You know?

Angie Alt: Right.

Rachael Bryant: Definitely. I think that’s part of something; I have a little bit of internal conflict on, too. Because I do like to make pretty food photos. And for me, it’s a creative outlet for someone who, honestly I never considered myself creative at all before I started food blogging. So for me it’s like this fun thing, and I like to make these pretty food photos. But then on the other hand, sometimes I almost feel like; I don’t want to say I feel guilty. But I am aware that those very same food photos can be very intimidating.

Like if I think of where I started; I would have gone, “Psh! I can’t make food like that.” Or if I had made a recipe and it hadn’t turned out like the photo, I probably would have assumed that it was me. You know? I do find that hard to sort of balance. I don’t know. I don’t have an answer for that, really.

Mickey Trescott: You know, Rachael, I’m kind of in a similar boat. I love photography, and I think of it as kind of an art for me. But at the same time, a lot of people are unable to mentally say, “I can do this.” Unless they see something that looks good to them. And I think part of the images are inspiring to people to understanding that even though this diet has this long list of foods they can’t have.

If they see some beautiful imagery, like our books or our Instagram feeds, or anything. And they’re like; “Wow, this food looks incredibly delicious.” They might make that mental shift. Like, “Maybe I can actually do that.” And I think that’s the important role it plays, and where the line, that boundary is in then having them think I need to be eating this Instagram worthy food every single meal. That’s not realistic.

And that’s where I think sharing some more of the real life behind the scenes type stuff is important, too. But, you know, I think both are really valuable, and I wouldn’t feel bad at all about doing the great work that you do and showing people how beautiful eating this way can be. Because for some people, that is really important. That inspiration.

Rachael Bryant: It’s true, isn’t it? Because the visual is kind of significant. I think it helps for people to see that it’s not all about the list of what you can’t have. Mindset is so important. The longer I do this, the longer I’m invested in my own health. The longer I’m cooking for myself, that becomes more significant to me. It’s not about what you can’t have, it’s about what you’re choosing to do for yourself. It’s about the choices that you can make. The ways that you can work with what you do have and can have. And I think that applies to cooking, but it applies to everything, really.

5. Using food “scraps” [39:23]

Angie Alt: Right. Ok, Rachael. How about, you talk to us about using food scraps. I think that you’re very talented in this. Again, we see this reflected in your recipe creations and your food photography and the things that you’re sharing with the community. Can you tell us about how your kind of minimizing waste, and making that food budget go really far in terms of reusing food scraps?

Rachael Bryant: The main two things I probably do here when it comes to cleaning out the fridge at the end of the week. And I am a weirdo. I take a kind of strange pride in getting to the end of the week and getting that fridge right down to it’s sort of bare, empty…

Angie Alt: Mickey and I totally do too. We totally talked about this earlier. {laughs}

Rachael Bryant: It’s like it’s looking at you, and you’re feeling really good. Because it’s like; almost gone. And then you have that last challenge at the end and you’re like; ok, can I actually make another meal now, or have I pushed this too far? {laughs}

What I do to really make use of everything, two main things that I do. One, this isn’t rocket science, but making broth. My husband is now well used to the fact the freezer at any point is probably 40% bits of bones or random things that I can’t throw away or an ice cube tray of something that I could throw into vegetables or whatever later on. So broth is my key thing.

I think a lot of people have this idea. I don’t know; I think maybe it’s because a lot of recipes or methods you see online, where people teach you about how to make broth. You very often see whole chicken carcasses, or specific bones that people have gone out. Go out and buy soup bones. But obviously we’re not all doing that. I try to use up what I have.

I think my favorite way to make broth right now is with pork bones. Specifically rib bones. Whenever there’s a sale on pork ribs, I’m there. Not just because I like ribs. Because they make really, really good broth. But you don’t see people talking about pork broth. People tend to think chicken or beef.

But with broth, I’m using little bits of vegetable scraps that I will save. So say carrot tops, or the end of leeks, or the odd onion, or what have you. But I’m also making use of all of the bones from meat that we’re using to make meals throughout the week.

Mickey Trescott: I love this reusing bone conversation. I think it’s something that can’t be said enough. Because I do the exact same thing as you, Rachael. I have a bag or four at all times in the freezer.

Rachael Bryant: It’s terrible! {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Once you realize how many bones you can save and you start saving them, it becomes like a hoarding problem.

Rachael Bryant: It is! Then I have this separate baggie. And it’s like, the separate baggie. Once I’ve made broth with you once and you’re real clean and defuzzed. Then I’m like; you’re going in the special bag to be reused.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And I don’t know about you, but I mix, like half and half. I mix types of bones. I don’t ever buy bones for broth. And I know part of that is because I buy whole animals, so I end up getting a bunch of bones when I get my order. But just from cooking chickens, or chicken thighs. I usually eat bone-in meat. So when people are like; you know, bones are expensive. Beef knuckle bones at Whole Foods. I’m always like; I haven’t bought bones in forever, just because I’m always reusing them. You know?

Rachael Bryant: I do the same thing. I always prioritize those bone-in meats. And often, they’re cheaper, too. Because you’re not paying for them to debone and de-skin. And you’re not paying the premium on the lean meats. Which, a lot of the time I don’t want.

Mickey Trescott: And you get all those little scraps of meat, and that connective tissue, that’s still attached to the bone that’s then going to go into your broth. So that meat is going to add flavor, and all of that connective tissue is going to add some more gelatin and collagen and everything. I can’t really see an argument for doing it any other way. It’s not only the cheapest, but I think you end up with a better tasting and nutritious broth in the end, too.

Rachael Bryant: The other thing that I do. Probably other people do it, too, but I don’t see anybody talking about it. {laughs} So maybe I have a little bit of a weird hoarding problem in this respect, too. But if I roast a chicken. Or if I’ve cooked any kind of meat, and it’s done on a pan. It’s got all those; it’s got all that fat and roasting pan juices or whatever. I will pour that off into a freezer container. I will freeze that too.

And then once I; I usually make broth in my Instant Pot. So once I’ve gone through that process, and I’ve strained it, and I’ve gotten rid of the bits and the bones and things and I’m just left with the broth that I’m going to put into jars, then what I’ll do is I’ll take some of these frozen reserved pan juices, and I’ll put those back into the mix and heat that up again.

And it does two things. One, I’m not wasting anything. Two, it adds a lot more flavor. Because you’re not just getting the bones. You’re getting that kind of more meaty depth of flavor. But also, and this is especially true, something like chicken or pork or more fatty cuts in general. Is that way you’re getting all the fat that’s sort of left behind after you’ve roasted and cooked. And that makes a really, really nice seal. Once you’ve poured off your broth, and put it in the fridge, or whatever. I end up with a really nice fat cap there, more than I would necessarily just making the straight broth. And that helps to preserve it, to keep it longer. So it’s helping to avoid waste from that perspective, too. You’re also grossing out your husband, again. But by now, he’s used to it.

Angie Alt: {laughs} Yeah. I love the fat cap thing, too. I feel like your broth keeps longer that way.

Rachael Bryant: Yep. Definitely. It really does help. People have asked me; “how long should I keep it?” And I know technically I should probably tell you like a week, but honestly in my own house, I couldn’t tell you how long some of that broth lasts. And I use it. I wouldn’t necessarily tell someone else to do it. But I do it with no shame. It lasts a long time.

Mickey Trescott: That’s so {laughs} funny, Rachael, because we were just talking earlier about this in the first section of this podcast. And we were like; you know, the government recommends a few days with leftovers, but I definitely leave things for a week, sometimes even more. Especially broth.

Rachael Bryant: Oh broth has been in my fridge for more weeks than I probably even am aware of. Don’t do what I do, but maybe think about doing what I do? {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Exactly. Everyone’s doing their own thing. But I think a lot of people, too, are unnecessarily skeeved out by food safety, when there’s some other things that are a little more sketch than leaving something in your fridge for a couple of days too long.

Rachael Bryant: I think, too, part of that is distance from food. For a lot of people coming into AIP or just real food, just cooking in general. Maybe you’ve come from an environment like me. When I was a kid, when I was a teenager. I didn’t really start to cook for myself until I was in college. And I was ruled by the dates on packages, because I didn’t know how to differentiate any of the stuff for myself. So I probably threw away lots of perfectly fine food, because I didn’t really understand how to tell if something was still good.

The other thing that I do, in fact probably the main thing that I do that’s the mainstay of the food that I eat each day. I always make a soup. Usually it’s the weekend. Usually cleaning out the fridge with whatever I’ve got left. Very often it’s got a kind of root vegetable base. Usually because those are the things that last longest, you know. Because I have to shop for a week or so once. The way I sort of rotate through my food is I’ll eat the fresher, more delicate things first. Like lighter leaves and salads and stuff like that. Certain fruits, and then sort of as the week progresses, I’ll work my way through the more hardy stuff. The stuff that keeps longer.

So usually at the end of the week I’ve got some parsnips, or carrots. Something like that. And then I will clean out the fridge with whatever else I have left, and I will make myself a very simple pureed vegetable soup. I usually keep it very neutral in seasoning, and the reason is that soup sort of becomes the base for my next weeks’ breakfast. I know some people are probably making a face right now. “Soup for breakfast, really?”

But for me, it helps on a couple of levels. First of all, I’m not wasting anything, it helps me clean out that fridge at the end of the week. But also it gives me a really nice base in the morning for a very simple meal that I don’t have to cook; that I can just reheat. But what I like to do is start off with this base soup and then kind of jazz it up different ways throughout the week, dependent on things I have to hand. So, I don’t necessarily have to have the exact same soup each time.

And so, this kind of sums up my approach in a nutshell. It’s like; I’ve got a base level of planning, in this case the soup. And then I sort of wing it each day so that I don’t get bored.

Mickey Trescott: I love that, Rachael.

Angie Alt: I love it.

Mickey Trescott: Thanks so much for sharing in detail the way that you would work through what we call a fridge dump soup, and then use that as a base for recipes going forward in your week. That’s awesome.

Angie Alt: Yay!

Mickey Trescott: So, Rachael, will you let our listeners know just kind of what you’re up to in your work currently, and where they can find you online?

Rachael Bryant: You can find all of my recipes on my blog. It’s Meatified.com. and it’s a bit of a nonsense word. It’s sort of like a little mini in-joke. Because I used to be vegetarian. Many years ago. And when I started to eat meat again, I was joking to my husband about how I’ve meatified my diet. So it’s a little bit of a nonsense made up word. So that’s where you can find me, anyway.

On social media, you can find me on Instagram. It’s where I post more of my day-to-day things. I’m really terrible at stories, but I’m trying to get better, so that I can show more of the real meals I make, the less styled food that I eat. And you can find me on Instagram at Meatified, as well. I’m also on Facebook, but I’m really bad at keeping up with that, truth be told. But if you want to follow me there, that’s where you’ll find me.

To be honest, I’m not really working on anything special right now.

Mickey Trescott: What about your cookbook? I mean, your cookbook just came out. Again, it’s a really incredible resource. I just made the chili a couple of weeks ago. Super tasty.

Rachael Bryant: I love that recipe! Although I hated making it at the time. My husband; he’s not even Texan. Right? He’s from California. But he lived in Texas for 30 years, so he has really, very specific thoughts about chili. And that chili, and the barbecue sauce in my cookbook. He sent me back into the kitchen, I’m not even joking, about 30 times. It was ridiculous. I was beginning to curse his name, and chili, and everything barbecue.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Rachael Bryant: By the time I was done. But yes. My cookbook; the original version of my cookbook is called Nourish. And it’s got a subtitle of The Paleo Healing Cookbook. And it’s a hardcover edition. This year, we actually did come up, because a lot of saying were saying, “We love your cookbook, but we don’t really love hardcover.” Or, “We want a paperback we can lay open in the kitchen a bit better or get a bit messy.” So we’ve actually just launched a paperback edition. And it’s just called The Paleo Healing Cookbook. It has the updated cover, and it’s the paperback edition. But the recipes are the same.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. If you guys are interested in checking out Rachael’s stuff, we definitely encourage you to do that. She’s a really important part of our AIP community. We’re really grateful for her work.

Thank you again for agreeing to chat with us today, Rachael. And for everybody else, we’ll be back next week with a new episode. Take care!

Angie Alt: Bye everybody!

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

For the full podcast archive, click here.

The post S3 E6 – Minimizing Waste w/ Rachael Bryant appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 5 is all about buying clubs and online markets that will help you strategically stretch your budget and adopt the AIP sustainably for the long term. We discuss the pros and cons of local buying clubs, co-ops, membership programs, and bulk meat sources, as well as our favorite online shopping portals.

Our hope is that this episode will help you best leverage all of these resources so you can stretch your budget as far as it will go. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. Local buying clubs and food co-ops [2:45]
2. A hybrid option [7:04]
3. Bulk membership stores [11:39]
4. Online buying options [16:34]
5. Buying meat online [31:32]

Mickey Trescott: Hey, everybody! Mickey here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 3. How’s it going over there in DC, Angie?

Angie Alt: It’s going pretty well. I’m sad to report that it’s still winter. But we seem to be getting closer to spring, so that is making me a little bit happier.

Mickey Trescott: Yay for sunshine coming!

Angie Alt: Yay for sunshine! Vitamin D please.

Mickey Trescott: I know. Today we are continuing our discussion related to the topic this season. If you guys haven’t been paying attention, we are talking about real food on a budget. Which is really an important concept to a lot of us, if we want to be able to be eating this way long-term, right?

This episode is going to be about buying clubs and online markets. And how we can best leverage these resources to strategically help out with our sourcing needs and stretching our budgets. It can be super easy to overdo it with either of these options; I mean, hello. Amazon Prime, we’re looking at you!

But we hope that this episode will give you guys some great ideas about how you can use online shopping to your advantage.

1. Local buying clubs and food co-ops [2:45]

Angie Alt: So, maybe we can start with buying clubs. Mick, do you want to talk about that first?

Mickey Trescott: So a buying club is just any time you band together with either community members, or a company, and you get bulk pricing on foods and home goods. So when you go to a grocery store and you buy one unit of something. Like one apple, or one little six-ounce applesauce or something. You’re getting actually the highest price for that, because you’re buying it in the smallest quantity.

So the grocery store, obviously they have a wholesale account. They’re able to buy food from distributors or farmers at a really good price. And their service is that they’re bringing it in, sorting it, putting it out for you, and you’re able to buy it in a really small quantity.

If you kind of reverse that, and you figure out how to band with other people in order to buy the biggest quantity of something, you can get a really good deal. So this might take the form of, say, a local Facebook group. So I’m the member of a local real food buying club on Facebook in my local area. It has over a couple of thousand members. And there are certain people in the community that will coordinate with local farmers to engage in bulk buys. So this might look like, you know, maybe they’re buying a cow and they want to split it with a few families. That would be kind of like a small share.

Sometimes they’ll even go to a honey vender, and they’ll get 100 jars of honey and everyone will split it. They do charge $20 a year to be a member. I know there are some groups out there that are nonprofits or free. Sometimes it’s just collections of neighbors. But this is definitely something to look into, especially if you live somewhere like I do. Where there’s a lot of food production locally. It’s hard for me to actually get that high-quality food in the store.

I think some of you guys in rural area will understand that disconnect. You think that living in an area where all the food is produced, you have great access to it. But it’s actually the other way around. My local grocery store is the equivalent of a Walmart. So these local food buying clubs can really help get that high-quality food at a better cost.

Angie Alt: I don’t belong to a formal group like Mickey does, through Facebook. But I have informally joined groups in the past where, for instance, I got maple syrup that was bought in bulk from the producer. And sometimes I do this with fish. I’ve done it to get salmon from Alaska.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Banding together, guys, can definitely save you some money. And honestly it doesn’t have to be a formal Facebook group. It can even be your family. So, something that I do because I live on property with my mom, her sister and her partner. We all actually band together to buy meat. And my brother actually lives a few hours away in Seattle. So between the four different families, we’ll buy a whole cow every year, and then split it into quarters. If we were just buying a quarter of a cow, the price is higher than if you buy the whole thing. So even your family can work like a buying club.

Angie Alt: Right. What about co-ops? Let’s explain and talk about co-ops.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, co-ops are an awesome business model for like a grocery store. There can also be more informal co-ops that don’t have a storefront. But basically, they function differently from a corporation because they are member or employee owned. So this means if you have a local food co-op, they might ask you to pay a member fee. It might be a one-time fee up front.

I think when I lived in California, I paid $75 once to be a member, and that gets you a share. So you can actually vote on leadership, and then you get discounts on all the food they buy. Sometimes they have you pay per year. Sometimes you don’t even have to pay, but it just means that the store is actually owned by the employees and the people that run it.

So there’s a few different models. But really, the point of a co-op is to get the highest quality food at a price that is lower than normal. So by paying into the co-op system, you know that that money, that profit that the store is making, isn’t actually going to some shareholder’s pockets. It’s actually going to reinvest in the business and keep the price down for the people that shop there. So co-ops can be a really fun option, also.

2. A hybrid option [7:04]

Angie Alt: Yeah. It’s a great way to really get engaged with your community and good quality food providers. Here’s an interesting set up. And I actually don’t do this as an adult. But when I was a kid, my mom and aunt and grandmother belonged to Azure Standard. Can you tell us about Azure Standard?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; actually, I didn’t know that about your family, Angie, but I actually used them a lot about 5 or 6 years ago when I first started getting into real food. Especially with the online buying. So they’re a little bit of a hybrid.

They are a major real food distributor in the United States. They have an online store. But instead of shipping directly to you; which I think they do now. But they didn’t in the past, 5 or 6 years ago. What you had to do, was it was a buying club. They had no fee to join. You sign up, you join what’s called a drop.

Which is, basically someone in your community who has arranged an area where a semi can come drop off some orders. So everyone that is a member of that drop; they order all their food online. I think each drop has like a $500 minimum from the company. And then a truck shows up at, usually a church parking lot or some area that’s easily accessible to a lot of people.

Our drop in Seattle had about 20 or 30 families that would then show up, meet the truck. It would be the same time every couple of weeks or every month. And they would just get their order that literally came straight off a palate. And you can get some amazing bulk goods for crazy, crazy low prices.

So I would get things like gallons of coconut oil, apple cider vinegar, some of the flours. And actually, Azure standard has an organic farm here in Oregon, and they grow a lot of herbs, and spices. And they even have pastured meat and lamb. So I was ordering a lot of frozen meat from them.

Angie Alt: You know, Azure Standard has been around for a really long time. I mean, way back when my family was doing when I was a kid, they didn’t even offer non-GMO products, because there wasn’t GMO yet.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Angie Alt: They were always kind of the number one place to go if you wanted really high quality, organic food that was really inexpensive. And you know, my aunt and my mom and my grandma would band together and get these big orders. My family and my aunt and uncle’s family both had four kids, so they were trying to feed 8 kids on really good quality food. We would use the food we got there to supplement the hunting and fishing that my dad and uncle were doing. And the garden that we grew.

My grandma was really into herbal and medicinal teas, and she could get big bulk orders of that from Azure Standard. It was really great.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it’s like Christmas. Meeting the truck, and having all your bulk groceries.

Angie Alt: Yeah!

Mickey Trescott: And they actually have a lot of stuff that, if anyone lives rurally, maybe you’re on a farm or you have some animals. They have a lot of goods that are really good for animals. So back when I lived in Seattle and had chickens, they had the only non-GMO soy-free chicken feed at a price that I could afford. So I ordered our chicken feed from them, and all that kind of stuff.

They even sold like root vegetables, and pantry storage foods. So I would get a lot of onions. Things that we’ve talked about this before; not really worrying too much if there’s a blemish on your veggies. It’s totally normal, and especially with those root veggies. It does not matter. So you can get an amazing price on that stuff from them.

Angie Alt: Right. And it’s a really good chance to meet your kind of local real food advocate community. I remember when we would go to the semi to pick up the foods. There would be all these other people that were kind of into that same health conscious lifestyle.

Mickey Trescott: You’re kind of like; “What did you get?” {laughs}

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: Like swapping stories of what they’re getting and what they’re doing with it. It’s really fun.

Angie Alt: Right. I remember I used to love; even when I was a kid, I used to love to browse their catalog. Which I don’t even know if they put out a catalog, anymore. Maybe you just order everything on their online site. But yeah; great resource, you guys.

Mickey Trescott: And it’s pretty cool that it’s been around so long. So www.AzureStandard.com is their website if you guys want to check it out. And they have some videos online. Trust us; it’s not scary to join a drop. I remember the first time I did it, I was like; who are these people, and how does this work? They explain everything on the website. And the prices are probably in line with the cheapest you can get for some of these high-quality foods. So they do a really great service for our community.

3. Bulk membership stores [11:39]

Angie Alt: Ok, so another possibility, which is kind of the opposite of Azure Standards in terms of everybody knowing about it, is Costco. Costco is a members-only, big box, discount retailer. You have to pay a membership fee every year. But there is quite a bit of benefit to having that Costco membership.

The standard membership is just $60 per year. It let’s you purchase products for your home and family at Costco locations and on their website. And the prices are greatly reduced, because again they’re buying these such huge bulk quantities. And then you can get an executive membership for $120 per year. And that membership gives you a 2% reward, up to $1000. So you can kind of earn money a little bit, as your spending money.

The Paleo Mom has a guide on her website to AIP Costco shopping that is a very helpful resource.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; are you a Costco shopper, Angie? What’s been your experience with them?

Angie Alt: Well, so this is interesting. We used to be Costco members, but my husband is kind of a Costco fanatic. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Angie Alt: So, it didn’t really work that well for us. Because he’d be like; “Oh, look at this, a 2-gallon jar of pickled eggs!”

Mickey Trescott: Oh my gosh.

Angie Alt: And I would be like; “We do not need this.” So we have a small family, and we don’t live close to our extended family. So sharing all of that with other people didn’t really make sense for us in the long-term. But I know that for families that are a little bit bigger, or have an extended family around them, Costco can be an enormous win. How about you?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, we don’t have a Costco membership. But both my mom and my dad have Costco memberships, and I will kind of tag along with them when they go. Maybe once or twice a year just to pick up a few things.

I’ve actually been really impressed, as the years have gone on, at their selection of more real food options. So things that I see really frequently are some high-quality cooking oil. So things like gallons of coconut oil, avocado oil. Sometimes they have good olive oil, but you know, you’ve got to kind of do your research on the supplier there.

As far as meat, I’ve heard that they have a lot more grass-fed meat. It’s pretty reliable to find there. Pasture raised chicken, and some frozen, wild-caught salmon. So those are all things that you would be eating on AIP, and by buying in bulk and having a deep freezer you could definitely save there.

During the summer, they have amazing prices on organic berries. So they’ll have organic strawberries, raspberries. Sometimes even blueberries, which is really fun if you’re going to do any kind of making gummies, or freezing for the winter. That can be a really great source there.

And then they have some great home goods. They have a nice stainless pot and pan set that I bought. They have a Vitamix that they occasionally will sell for a really great price. Magic Bullet, some of those sorts of things. So if you’re kind of outfitting your kitchen, too, Costco can be a great place to think about. Maybe picking up some of those home goods, too.

Angie Alt: Right. Right. The avocado oil is the one that stands out. When we did have a membership, I don’t think there’s a better price on avocado oil than what Costco offers.

Mickey Trescott: Yep.

Angie Alt: Yep. I think people should definitely check it out if they can really benefit from those big bulk orders of stuff.

Mickey Trescott: Next we’re going to chat about some of the different online options. This can be really huge for any of you that have limited access to shopping due to where you live. And when used carefully, some of them can actually equal a really big savings. So we’ll be talking about that next.

Angie Alt: A quick word from our title sponsor this season; The Nutritional Therapy Association. How you plan and purchase food can significantly affect your health; both in body and budget. Well-informed, proactive planning makes a big difference. Our sponsor, the Nutritional Therapy Association, launched a new, fully online, nutritional therapy consultant course that emphasizes a wide-range of integrated nutrition and lifestyle strategies to transform health.

The new curriculum includes culinary healing modules that empower NTCs with practical knowledge and skills necessary to source, prep, and plan meals for themselves and their nutrition clients. Covering everything from shopping practices to knife skills, from meal prep to fermentation.

It also trains NTCs to address the wider context of health and healing with lifestyle strategies. I completed my NTC training in 2016, and it has been enormously positive for my practice and my ability to help others achieve their wellness goals. If you guys want to learn more about how to become an NTC, and check out their free, Nutritional Therapy 101 course, go to www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

4. Online buying options [16:34]

Angie Alt: OK, you guys. So now that we’ve covered some of the in-person buying club options, we wanted to continue the discussion and talk about some of the options out there for buying food online. Mickey, when did buying food and supplements online not seem weird to you anymore?

Mickey Trescott: It’s weird. Because since getting into the whole real food movement, we also, around that 2012 time, there was a really big shift in the concept that you could actually be buying food and supplements online. And I definitely remember that. It was kind of like; go back to eating real foods that are not packaged and not processed. But also, there’s this other whole source that is on the internet that seemed a little bit strange.

So, I actually started ordering supplements on Amazon when I was going through my illness. I think that’s around 2013. And back then, when we started AIP, there really weren’t any snacky, shelf-stable options out there.

Angie Alt: No. Nothing.

Mickey Trescott: There was no cassava flour. There were no Power Balls. There was nothing like that. So those kind of fun snacky options were not an option. And supplements are actually really expensive in the store, so I figured that out pretty quick and I started saving money there pretty early on.

I’d say around 2015 was the year that I really started buying food online. I had gone to PaleoFx, and I was introduced to Thrive Market through them. And I kind of went online. I definitely didn’t jump on the bandwagon right away. I think it took me another whole year to really come around to the concept that I could actually be saving money by ordering a bunch of stuff online. But then I was getting epic bars and things on Amazon, so it was kind of a slow roll.

But I’m at the point now where I do a lot of my shopping, especially for things that are not shelf stable and household goods, online. What about you, Angie?

Angie Alt: I think I started in about 2012 with Tropical Traditions. And then not very long after that, I started buying some fat from FatWorks, too, online. At the time, sourcing the high-quality fat, especially, still wasn’t that easy in my local grocery stores and through my farmers. Like getting palm shortening, or coconut oil. Especially in bulk, because I was using so much of that kind of stuff at that time. Being able to find really high-quality olive oil that I trusted. And then animal fats like lard, or tallow. That just really wasn’t available quite yet.

I also started used Tropical Traditions later when I was trying to figure out egg reintroductions. I realized that I might have a soy issue, and not really an egg issue. A lot of you will know that chickens are often fed a diet that has some soy in it, and that can come through in the egg itself and cause issues when you’re trying to reintroduce. And Tropical Traditions was the only source out there that I could find with 100% soy-free eggs.

It was a little too expensive to maintain over the long-term, but I did it a few times. Ordered eggs from them, so I could test out my theory and figure out if it was soy or eggs. It turned out to be soy, guys.

And then in 2015, I started using other online retailers. There were just more options. And in the past year, we started expanding a lot, my husband and I, in an effort to not only save money, but also we both have very committed passionate full-time careers in our home. So we were trying to save time. Being able to order things online really made a big difference. I think I’ve mentioned it before; shopping in my neck of the woods is very time intensive because of the population density. So ordering online has been a lifesaver.

Mickey Trescott: I actually forgot about Tropical Traditions, but I definitely ordered a lot of coconut oil from them. Actually, I still order coconut oil from them, because I think it has the best flavor and it’s the cleanest. And that era of the soy-free eggs; that’s when I was ordering the feed from Azure Standard. Because I was in the same boat, trying to re-intro eggs and figure out; is this because my chickens are eating soy feed, or because I’m allergic to the eggs?

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: And, same deal. It was the soy.

Angie Alt: Yep.

Mickey Trescott: Really funny.

Angie Alt: Ok, so what are some options for people to use to buy food online?

Mickey Trescott: Thrive Market is something that I love. It’s an online store. It’s kind of like a Costco. So there’s a $60 membership, but they do have a 30-day free trial. So you can go on and you can make as many orders as you want. And I think if you hit $50, it’s free shipping. So it’s very affordable to try. When you buy a membership, your membership actually sponsors one for a low-income family. So we love that charity component that they have.

Their prices are about 25-50% off the list price for natural products. So I would say if you live in an urban area and you have a variety of stores that have competitive pricing, their prices might not be mind-blowing for you. But for me, I live in a rural area. So any of the stores around here, I don’t have a specialty grocer that puts things on sale at all. So all of those natural products in my local stores are like the exact highest price they could possibly be. So I save a lot of money by shopping with Thrive Market.

And I actually get every pantry item I possibly can from them. Spices, nuts, alternative flours like cassava flour. I get a lot of oils from them. They have a great olive oil that I love. I get vinegars there. Chocolate, of course.

And then, actually, I think the area where I save the most money using their service is by getting all of my personal care products and my natural cleaning products. So this is things like the 7th generation dish soap that I use, and the laundry soap, and Dr. Bronner’s, and that kind of thing. A bottle of Dr. Bronner’s at my local store is $16 for one of those big bottles. And on thrive, they’re usually like $11 or $12. So that’s a big savings.

And then the convenience, for me. Just the regular grocery store is a half-hour away. Specialty grocer is an hour away. So in addition to that cost savings, I get a big savings just in having that stuff delivered to my house.

The biggest downside in the beginning with Thrive was actually their shipping was very slow. So it used to take a week to 10 days to get an order from them. Which, when you’re used to working with Amazon, which we’re going to talk about in a minute, is a little frustrating. But I’ve actually noticed, I think their warehouses have expanded. Because I’ve been getting my orders in three to four days, recently.

Angie Alt: That’s nice. So I think your point about whether or not you live in an urban area with a lot of different grocery store options and competitive pricing was a really good one. I don’t use Thrive as much as you. I don’t have it dialed in like Mickey does; in part because some of the prices are actually better in my stores. Dr. Bronner’s is a really good example. I can usually find it for $11 or $12 on sale somewhere, for one of those big bottles.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, like Trader Joe’s is where I used to buy it. And I don’t have a Trader Joe’s by me. So, I actually added up all of my savings. I’ve been ordering roughly once a month for all of 2017, and I saved $900 by shopping with them.

Angie Alt: That’s awesome.

Mickey Trescott: So definitely worth that $60 membership. But I think it matters if you use it, and what you get from them. Because I’ve definitely heard from other people like you, Angie, if you’re in an urban area and you have some areas with good prices, it might not work out to be that cheap. And also, it depends what you buy from them, too.

Angie Alt: Yeah. I do still order some of my personal care products through them, from time to time. Because it is a great option.

Ok, let’s talk about the infamous Amazon. Of course.

Mickey Trescott: I have to be honest; I’ve always been a little weirded out by ordering food on Amazon. I haven’t totally gotten into it. But if there’s ever something I can’t get anywhere else, I get it on Amazon.

Angie Alt: Right. It’s like; if you’ve scoured every other option and you just can’t find it, it’s probably on Amazon.

Mickey Trescott: It’s free to shop. If you pay $100 a year for Amazon Prime, which most of us do, you get free 2-day shipping. Which is really convenient. I’ll run my supplements until literally I have two days left, and then reorder. {laughs}

Angie Alt: I do the same thing.

Mickey Trescott: I don’t know. You’re maximizing your warehouse space in your kitchen.

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: And then if you live in an area where they have Amazon Fresh, a Prime membership gets you some mileage there. I definitely don’t live anywhere near somewhere where anyone would deliver groceries to me.

Angie Alt: So, we do have the option for Amazon Fresh in our area, and we recently tried it out. And I have to say, there were some bumps, for sure. Because it’s a new service. They’re just doing this as they kind of team up with Whole Foods. So it wasn’t completely accident free, getting our order. But we did give it a shot. I think they’ll probably improve as they roll out the service. And it was handy.

The things that I usually rely on more, for Amazon, are the shelf-stable stuff that I want to have. Things like KC Natural’s barbecue sauces; AIP barbecue sauces. I order them every couple of months, and have a little pack in my cupboard. Things like that.

Also, I tend to order a lot of my cooking tools off of Amazon.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, they have some really great prices. Especially during their sales season. So like Prime Day and Black Friday, you guys can be on the lookout for things like crazy deals on Instant Pots, stuff like that, if whatever you’re looking for happens to be on sale. You can get super lucky with an Amazon super sale.

Angie Alt: And they have hundreds of really cute gummy molds. I got all of my gummy molds from Amazon. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You’ll never find a selection of really specific cookware anywhere like Amazon. It just blows stores out of the water.

Angie Alt: Yeah. OK, how about Tropical Traditions? Let’s tell everybody about them. We kind of alluded to them earlier.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So Tropical Traditions is a company that; what I love about them is they kind of narrowed their focus. They’re not trying to be a purveyor of every food. But they just have really high-quality source of tropical oils. So they have great coconut oils and coconut products. This is how I first got introduced to them. I use their gold label coconut oil, which is the least heat processed, the least refined. It’s really creamy, and it has a really good flavor. They also have varying grades, so depending on what you’re going to use it for. And they also have other coconut products. Like coconut butter, coconut flakes. I absolutely love their stuff.

They also have some high-quality meat and fish and soy free eggs. I haven’t purchased their meat. Actually, I’ve purchased turkeys from them. One thanksgiving I tried out their turkeys. They had pasture raised, completely free-range turkey. Super delicious. I find the prices of their meat and fish to be a lot higher than what I can find locally. So that doesn’t work as a source for me. But if you’re in an area that it’s kind of hard to find, and you’re willing to pay what they’re asking, I think they’re a good source there.

And they do have those soy free eggs. Which if you’re doing reintroductions, that can really be a great source for people that are worried about maybe the soy and the eggs. To test that out.

Angie Alt: And they do have; they offer discounted products and coupons really often. So what I do is I usually, once a year, order a big bulk order of palm shortening and coconut oil. I kind of wait and watch for when they run great discounts or have coupons.

One of the discounts they run is free shipping on those big gallon-sized containers of palm shortening and coconut oil. Which is really great, because they’re huge. So the shipping can be kind of pricey on them. But I’ll do that. At the beginning of the year, I ordered palm shortening. You could buy three gallons for free shipping. It was really inexpensive to do that, and then I shared with a friend.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, another thing to know about them is they run tons of sales all the time. So I will never go to their website and just buy everything list price without free shipping. I wait and if you follow them on Facebook or you get their newsletter. I find their newsletter a little bit overwhelming, because they send it a lot. But they always have a deal going on.

Like their coconut oil, I actually wait until they have the two for one. So they’ll do the gallon of gold coconut oil, and then they’ll throw in a second one for free.

Angie Alt: Yep. I do the same thing.

Mickey Trescott: And then if you find a coupon for free shipping, you’re kind of in super luck. I only order from them once or twice a year. But again, it’s that bulk. And the quality; I’ve never had a coconut oil that tastes as great as theirs. So I love it.

Angie Alt: Yeah, and I’ve kind of got it timed now. Like, a gallon of each of those. A gallon of the palm shortening definitely lasts me a full year. A gallon of the coconut oil probably lasts me around 6 to 7 months, I guess. I usually go through about two a year. So a really good option there.

Angie Alt: Ok. So there’s also a few online specialty stores. They don’t really have a membership. Usually have free shipping over a certain amount. Let’s talk about a few of those.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, we just wanted to mention some of these. They’re not all the same, but they have the same idea where they’re trying to create a nice, online store that’s curated with really high-quality products. The first one we’re going to mention is ShopAIP. They are the first ever, 100% AIP compliant online shop. They donate 5% of their products annually to autoimmune related causes. So obviously they’re kind of in this community with us. They’re offering a lot of products that are of interest to people that are on AIP, and if you guys want to have a shopping experience that is 100% AIP, it’s definitely the place to go.

Similarly, there are a couple of other companies. One is Barefoot Provisions. And another is called Wild Mountain Paleo Market. So these places both have online stores. You guys can Google them and look them up. They both offer more wider paleo type options. They all have different offerings from each other. So if you’re kind of like an Epic person, you might find one of these stores has more of the goods that you’re looking for. But they all have really well curated stuff. And some of those hardest to find specialty items that you might not find on Thrive or Amazon.

I know Wild Mountain Paleo Market has their own AIP compliant pemmican bar, that’s kind of similar to an Epic bar that is super tasty. I actually prefer the flavor of it over the Epic bars. So they have some things like that that are a little bit unusual that you’ll only find there.

5. Buying meat online [31:32]

Angie Alt: OK, last but not least. Let’s talk about buying meat online. Which can be a little crazy. In the beginning, it seems a little crazy. But there are some really great options out there.

Mickey Trescott: You know, I love all of these new companies that are trying to think about how we buy meat. Because that’s one of the hardest things about transitioning to this lifestyle, is just finding a really good source of meat. And not everyone has a farmer in their backyard.

So Butcher Box is the first company we’re going to talk about. They have a monthly subscription box with a variety of meats that are great for people that don’t have a freezer. So how it works is you pick out the size of box. It’s almost like a CSA. Like an online meat CSA. They source a variety of proteins from really great farms in the US. So they might send you a couple of pork chops. Maybe a chicken. Maybe some ground beef. Depending on the size of the box that you’re getting. And they’ll mail it to you in a cooler box once a month. So that’s really great for people that don’t have a lot of space to store things.

I know Angie and I have both tried their service. I’m like a bulk meat hoarder, so I don’t need a service like that. But I thought that the quality of the meat was really top notch.

Angie Alt: Yeah, I thought the quality of the meat was really great too. And I used it for a short time back in; hmm, I don’t remember if that 2017 or 2016. All the years are blurring together, Mick.

Mickey Trescott: I know. We’ve been at this for a while.

Angie Alt: We’ve been at this for a while. But anyway. I tried it out for a while while I was kind of waiting for my farmer, who was getting together a meat CSA for herself. And then once she got that together, I of course wanted to support somebody local. And you know, a farm that I could see and I could see those animals and how they were living and everything. It turned out to be an option that I didn’t need in the long term. But in that interim piece, it was great. It was really helpful.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. So also, there’s a company called Crowd Cow. This is a really interesting startup that allows people to purchase a portion of a cow online. So they’ll put on their website that a farm has a certain amount of shares. And then you can purchase as much of the cow that works for you. And they kind of crowd source the selling of all of the cow so that everyone gets a really great price. It’s almost like an online cow-buying club.

Angie Alt: Yeah. And I love the name. Crowd Cow. It’s so cute and fun. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. It really is.

Angie Alt: Ok, so the old standby that a lot of us know about in the community, because they’ve kind of been around with us all for quite a while is US Wellness Meats. They sell meat by the cut online. I think pretty much everybody in the AIP community knows that they’re a great source of sugar-free bacon, and they also have a lot of pastured organ meats.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. They sell meat by the cut. So they have more of a traditional store. When you go to US Wellness; I think it’s actually grasslandbeef.com. You’ll see the meat being sold by the cut. Which, for me, when I’m doing recipe development, a lot of times I run out of organ meats because I buy the whole animals and I actually always buy from US Wellness when that happens. Because they have a really great, clean source. Their poultry is all pastured. And everything is a great high quality. And I think their prices on the organ meats are really good.

They also have a great sugar-free uncured bacon ends, which are kind of like the random pieces left over from when they slice and package the regular bacon. And when I make pate, it doesn’t matter, I can just chop that up, fry it up, and use that fat to make that recipe. It doesn’t have to be in a perfectly cut strip. So that’s a little hack there. I like that they sell those ends. It provides an affordable way for people to get their hands on some great bacon.

Angie Alt: Yeah. And a few times in the past, when I’ve kind of been in desperation for bones, and things like that for bone broth, I’ve ordered from them. When I was working on my first cookbook, I kind of ran into a tight spot, and needed some specialty cuts, and I got them from them, too. So very helpful.

And then for seafood, a great option online is Vital Choice Seafood. This is really high-quality seafood sold online.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. They have a great store, and some great products. Both frozen and then they also have some canned products, as well.

Angie Alt: Yeah. And I think, if I remember right, Vital Choice was started by an actual fisherman. He was really wanting to make sure that people had this option.

Mickey Trescott: That’s awesome. I know there’s a lot of you guys in the middle of the country that don’t have the access to high-quality seafood that we do living on the coast. So having frozen seafood is a really great option. Especially because if the company is doing it right, which I think this is Vital Choices’ practice. They’ll freeze the fish on the boat, so it’s super, super fresh. I have a little bit of an issue with histamine with seafoods, and I can definitely tell when I don’t get seafood that has been handled properly. So I actually almost exclusively eat frozen seafood, because it minimizes that risk of having a histamine reaction.

Angie Alt: Right. Ok, so hopefully you guys aren’t going to find this list of options too overwhelming. We recommend you check out all of these options, and pick one or two to test out for a while and see if you like their system, if you like their products. And if it actually helps you save money. Mickey and I are definitely not using all of these options all the time ourselves. It was about finding out what was the most convenient and affordable for us. And we hope that you’ll be able to take these choices and do something similar to kind of tweak your budget and stay with the real food approach. So, we’ll be back next week with another episode, you guys. Take care everyone.

Mickey Trescott: Bye guys!

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

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The post S3 E5 – Buying Clubs + Online Markets appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 4 is all about the best ways to source produce — veggies and fruit — with budget in mind. This is a deep dive into all things produce sourcing! We cover our personal sourcing tips and how we personally save money, and we chat with our guest, Tyler Boggs of Heart2Heart Farms, about the benefits of CSAs and how to source your fruits and veggies if you can’t afford organic. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. Budget friendly sourcing of produce [2:14]
2. Personal sourcing tips from Mickey and Angie [8:40]
3. Guest interview with Tyler Boggs of Heart2Heart Farms [14:22]
4. Personal approach to budgeting for produce [18:54]
5. Produce scoring stories [24:24]
6. Sourcing when you can’t afford organic [29:45]
7. Benefits of a CSA [34:01]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Angie here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast season 3. How are you doing, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I’m doing great, how about you Angie?

Angie Alt: I’m good. I’ve been flying around to the West Coast a bunch, but I am home today and ready to chat about our next topic.

Mickey Trescott: I know, Angie’s been like a little ping-pong ball, back and forth.

Angie Alt: It’s been kind of crazy. I just traveled out to the West three times in three weeks, you guys. But I’m ready to do it. Anything for the cause. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

1. Budget friendly sourcing of produce [2:14]

Angie Alt: Ok, so today we’re continuing our discussion related to the topic this season, real food on a budget. This episode is going to be about how to source produce. From veggies to fruit with a budget in mind.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so we really wanted to take a deep dive into all things produce sourcing. Because there’s kind of a lot of nuance here. So if you guys have the Autoimmune Wellness Handbook, you will be familiar with the concept of good, better, and best that we talk about when it comes to food sourcing in general. But we kind of wanted to go over it in terms of produce.

So what this means is that you have a few different layers of quality that you can choose to buy your produce. So instead of saying everybody needs to buy the highest level, and this is the only way to heal. We’re kind of presenting a variety of ways that you guys can plan your sourcing. So that you can make the most use of the resources that you have.

So first category is good. This is for those of you who can’t get all organic fruits and vegetables. What we recommend doing is to start with the Environmental Working Groups list of dirtiest and cleanest produce. If you guys do a quick Google, type in EWG dirty dozen, and clean 15, you’ll come up with a cute little chart where the Environmental Working Group has tested all the fruits and vegetables in production in the US, and they’ve identified the ones that have the highest chemical residue of pesticides and stuff.

So, this is a really great way to kind of prioritize your fruit and veggie choices, right Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah. Well, this is a way for you to kind of get the max out of the foods that you can afford to buy organic, and kind of be really strategic about those purchases, so you’re not having to spend so much money on totally organic and utilizing the research to do that.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So the 2017 dirty dozen list; I have it pulled up here. They don’t have the 2018 list out yet. I think it’s coming out soon. But the dirty dozen. These are the fruits and vegetables with the highest amount of pesticides. Strawberries, apples, nectarines, peaches, celery, grapes, cherries, spinach, tomatoes, sweet bell peppers, cherry tomatoes, and cucumbers. We know you guys are probably not eating tomatoes and sweet bell peppers, if you’re on AIP. But those are going to be foods that have the highest pesticides. And you know, some of those are pretty surprising to me. Like cucumbers, I maybe wouldn’t have thought. But you know, those are the ones that were tested.

The clean 15 list has avocados, sweet corn, pineapple, cabbage, sweet peas, onions, mangos, asparagus, papaya, kiwi, eggplant, honeydew, grapefruit, cantaloupe, and cauliflower. So these were the vegetables that were shown to have the least amount of pesticides. So they might be ok for you to get conventional.

So some things like cauliflower, or cabbage, or onions. These are vegetables that are AIP friendly. Avocado. I buy conventional avocados a lot just because they’re on the top of the clean 15 list, they don’t have a lot of pesticides, and also they have a nice thick skin. And organic avocados; super expensive.

Angie Alt: Super expensive. Yeah, I do totally the same thing. One thing I didn’t realize, though. I hadn’t realized that cauliflower was on the clean 15 list, and I’ve been buying organic. So I’ll probably switch up. Because I like to use a lot of different cauliflower in my cooking.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. Yeah, so in addition to the dirty dozen and the clean 15 and kind of being able to prioritize there; something else you can do is watch for some sales on organic local in-season produce. So it’s usually way more economical to buy this way and checking out frozen vegetables. A lot of times freezing preserves nutrients, and is also lower cost. So if you guys are just getting started with upping the quality of your food, some of those recommendations might work for you.

Angie Alt: Right. So moving onto the better category. So this is the next step up in terms of budgeting and sourcing. If you can avoid some organic produce, you can focus on organic versions of those on the dirty dozen list. And round out a variety with the non-organic fruits and vegetables from that clean 15 list that we talked about. And you can shop at your local farmer’s market, and look for great deals on organic local produce.

If you focus on the local produce, the idea here is that you might find that your budget actually accommodates more of the organic. Because you won’t have the shipping cost as part of the premium you’re paying at the store.

Mickey Trescott: And then the best. So if you’re going to go all out and get the best produce you possibly can, which we recommend over the long term the more you can shift that budget to kind of up the food quality all across the board, you would be getting all, or as much of your produce as possible, organic, local, and in season. A great way to do this is by joining a CSA, which stands for community supported agriculture. This is when you pay the share of a farmer’s produce at the beginning of the season, and then the farmer has that money to invest and creating that harvest. And then you pick it up weekly. Sometimes they’ll deliver it to you. And then filling in whatever you’re not getting there with a variety at the farmer’s market co-op, natural food store.

I would also add her that the very, very best is actually growing your own. Right? So if you have complete control over all aspects of producing your food, that’s the most sustainable and it’s going to be the freshest. It’s going to be, obviously, the most in-season because you don’t have all the tricks that all the industrial even organic food growers have up their sleeves. And it’s going to be really convenient; it’s going to be right at home.

2. Personal sourcing tips from Mickey and Angie [8:30]

Angie Alt: Right. So great option if you can do that. So maybe we should talk about how we source our produce, Mickey.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So I live in Willamette Valley in Oregon. I live in an area where I can grow a lot. And actually something that I am striving to do better every single year is to become more self-reliant and grow my own food. So, we have a big herb garden that we use year-round. I grow lots of greens like kale, chard, lettuces, and zucchini.

Something that I learned, even when I lived in Seattle in the city when I really didn’t have a lot of food budget for good produce, was I actually found a chart online that said the most expensive produce per ounce from high to low. And actually, the highest cost that we pay in the store is actually herbs and greens. So things like cilantro, rosemary, thyme. And then the greens like the baby lettuces, spinach, kale, chard. And those are actually the easiest things to grow and they take the smallest amount of room. They don’t need a super deep bed. A lot of them can be grown in pots. So those are things that I prioritize growing just because of cost.

Another thing that I do is I pick my own in the summer. In the summer, there’s a crazy bounty of things like berries. My husband and I will go to the farm and we’ll pick pounds and pounds of blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, and then we’ll freeze them. And like right now, it’s the middle of winter, and we still have a bunch of frozen berries from the summer. Something else we do is we harvest persimmons from a persimmon tree in the winter, and so kind of the flip side.

And then I have different produce sourcing depending on if it’s summer or if it’s winter. Because even though we live somewhere that food grows, it’s not totally year-round. So in the summer, that’s when it’s amazing bounty all the time. I like to go to the farmer’s market. I haven’t been doing a CSA the last couple of years because I’ve been traveling so much that it’s a little complicated trying to figure out what to do with that food. I’m considering it this year because I’m not traveling as much.

In the winter, I fill in the gaps with like a Fred Myers, which for those of you who don’t live in the Northwest, it’s kind of like a Walmart. I don’t actually have a great specialty grocer where I live. I don’t have a Whole Foods, or even a Sprouts or Trader Joe’s. So actually surprisingly, they have a pretty good selection of organic produce in the winter. It’s the same industrial organic stuff that you find at Whole Foods. Honestly, it’s a lot cheaper because it’s not in a fancy store. But that’s where I kind of round out my produce when I have to.

Angie Alt: Awesome. So, I also have a mix, depending on the season. In the summertime, I get 100% organic CSA from my local farmer. The same farmer that I get most of my meat from. And she grows a bunch of different herbs, greens, onions, some fruits. Honestly, there’s a lot of nightshades in that CSA, but my husband and daughter can enjoy some of that. or we share it with neighbors or friends.

Even when I travel, I like having the weekly CSA. I usually arrange with a friend of mine who also enjoys this quality of food and have her pick up my CSA, and basically share it with her family. Like a little gift to her when I’m traveling.

And then in the winter, I mostly use Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods, and I get a combination of organic and non-organic fruits and vegetables. Usually based on that Environmental Working Groups guide. I don’t grow a lot of my own, because I live in a pretty urban/suburban area and I don’t really have a space for that. I have done a little bit of pot gardening in the past. Growing some greens in pots and stuff on our balcony. Mostly I stick to purchasing from my local farms, or the Trader Joe’s/Whole Foods combo. So that’s it. That’s my produce sourcing.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. I think it’s good to just share with people the different ways that we get our hands on this stuff. I am blessed to live kind of in farm country, but I also don’t have a good grocery store right by me. So by necessity, I’m forced to be a little more self-reliant. And Angie, I know you have a lot of options as far as stores around you, and you can actually leverage that and shop around. It’s more convenient for you to kind of see where you can get for the best price.

Angie Alt: Right. Right. Ok, so that’s it for the first half of this episode, you guys. We’ll be back after the break with a guest who is going to help us expand these ideas. He’s kind of amazing. We can’t wait to share.

Mickey Trescott: A quick word from our title sponsor this season, the Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA empowers it’s graduates to source, prepare, and integrate a variety of well-sourced plant foods as part of a nutrient dense diet. For example, did you know that the betaine in beets aids digestion? Chromium in romaine lettuce can help regulate blood sugar? And that brussels sprouts have been found to boost beneficial gut bacteria? Through their nutritional therapy practitioner training program, which I took in 2012, and the nutritional therapy consultant program, which Angie took in 2015, the NTA teaches students to use foods therapeutically and focuses on building foundational health by integrating customized diets based on everybody’s unique needs.

For more information on the NTA’s nutritional therapy programs, and to access their free 7-day 101 course, check out their website at www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

3. Guest interview with Tyler Boggs of Heart2Heart Farms [14:22]

Mickey Trescott: Alright guys, onto our interview for today. It’s just Mickey for this segment. Today we are speaking with Tyler Boggs, one half of the duo behind the incredible Heart2Heart Farms here in Oregon, with his wife, Elizabeth. Tyler and Elizabeth started raising animals and growing food after they converted to a real food lifestyle, but found that it was difficult to afford it. Not only did they start their farm to produce food for themselves, but they passionately developed a barter and work-trade systems to allow those in need to feed those they love.

A few short years later, Tyler has never been happier, sharing what he has and providing a sanctuary where people can nourish their bodies, minds, hearts, and souls. Other than being a good husband and father, there is no higher caller in the world to him than that. Thank you so much, Tyler, for joining us from Sherwood, Oregon. Your neighbor! As you know, we’re just kicking off a very focused podcast season dedicated to helping people making a healing diet and lifestyle fit into their budget. We know this is an area that you have a ton of expertise in, and I’m really excited to get started talking to you today.

Tyler Boggs: Thank you, Mickey. We’re super excited as well.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. So, first we know that your farm was born out of a personal struggle to afford this high-quality food. We know a lot of other people struggle with this, too, and they might resonate with your story. So can you tell us a little bit about how those circumstances lead to the creation of Heart2Heart farms?

Tyler Boggs: Yeah. Tight budget leads to necessity. So when we decided to eat organic; it started with just becoming jaded with the food industry in general and deciding enough is enough. And we needed to get the chemicals out of our food.

And when we did that, our food bill went up to over $1400 a month. Almost immediately. And that just wasn’t sustainable. So we immediately just started to get creative. And the first thing that we thought of; I mean, a seed packet was $2. And we didn’t really know anything. I mean, I grew up on a farm. but I deployed very early and spent a bunch of years overseas. So I didn’t have much experience personally farming. So we just got on Google. We bought some seed packets and got on Google, and started planting and failing miserably. But at $2 a seed packet, you can have a lot of failure and still produce a bunch of food.

And the result was, we actually ended up producing more than we needed in many areas, and giving that away. and then people would request. Once we started doing that, people would say; I’d like something of this, and I’d like some of this. And it grew, no pun intended, organically. And then we started the farm just through that. So believe it or not, it was seed packets and Google.

Mickey Trescott: Wow.

Tyler Boggs: Desperation. We made the commitment that we were done with the food industry. And we would do whatever it takes. You would be surprised at what $20 in seed will buy. A weekly grocery budget for us would produce a whole season full of food.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I think a lot of people aren’t really even familiar with those seed packets. But what would you even ballpark estimate one of those $2 packets of seeds; for something even as expensive at the store as like kale or lettuce or something. What’s the dollar value ballpark for something like that?

Tyler Boggs: You’re looking at probably 1000%.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Tyler Boggs: It’s 100 times. It’s super, super; at retail prices, that $2 seed packet will produce hundreds and hundreds of dollars’ worth of produce at a retail rate. Especially if you’re talking about organic produce.

And for us, it was really just the scary piece was that we’d never done it and we didn’t want to mess it up. And not having the basic foundation really prevented us, for a long time, from just starting to put seeds in the ground. But really, that’s it. It’s just starting to put seeds in the ground.

My wife is a part of all of these wonderful Facebook groups where she can just take a picture of the plant, and post it to this group, and they can tell her what it needs. At the very beginning, that was critical. They’d say; it needs more water. The soil doesn’t have enough nitrogen. And these plant experts were just willing to give all their incredible advice. I mean, it really didn’t take much. It was just the getting started and overcoming that fear of messing it up.

4. Personal approach to budgeting for produce [18:54]

Mickey Trescott: I love that. that’s so cool. So, can you tell me a little bit about your family’s personal approach to stretching your food budget, especially in terms of produce. How do you make the most of what you’ve got?

Tyler Boggs: That’s a super great question. And that was probably the biggest challenge up front. Number one was self-reliance. Really deciding that we were going to be the beginning and end. We were going to take whatever action we needed to to make sure that our family was eating chemical free. So self-reliance, and then that action step. We were going to act, even if we didn’t have all the information. We were just going to get started.

But the other piece that was really important, was seasonal abundance and eating seasonally. One of the things that we’ve found is, whether it’s a farmer or somebody who just has a garden in their back yard. There are crops that over produce. Whether it’s tomatoes in the late summer, or whether it’s zucchini in the early fall. It doesn’t take; one bush will provide more than a family needs. So there are lots and lots and lots of people. As long as you’re willing to eat what’s available seasonally and search that stuff out. In the summer you’ve got pears and apple trees all down the highway and the roads. It’s just a matter of finding them. And they’ll drop far more fruit than anybody generally uses. So if we’re willing to shift our diet and eat what’s in season, and what’s abundant; that really helped immensely, as well. Just looking for those opportunities. Finding out what gets ripe and when.

I remember, every time we’d go for a walk or go for a drive, we’d write down where apple trees, and pear trees, and fruit trees were on the sides of the road. Because inevitably, all you’ve got to know is when they get ripe, and they just drop the fruit. 90% of it rots on the ground. So self-reliance, seasonal eating.

Preserving; preservation. Liz is a fermentationist. So preservation is a huge piece of what she does in fermentation. But also drying and dehydrating. And then pressure canning, and even water bath canning. So, preserve, preserve, preserve. When those things are in abundance, and you get 100 pounds of apples, obviously we can’t eat those before they go bad. So finding a way to make sure that they last. Even if you can get them to last a couple of months. But ideally, last until the next harvest. So increasing our knowledge in preservation.

And then building community I think is the next step. Because it’s challenging to go this road alone. So we started with one other family. As soon as we got really excited about it, we found a really close friend that was in the same boat. Hurting financially but really wanted to improve their health and change their lifestyle. It’s amazing how much more energy you have working with one other couple. And instead of doing it just for yourself, which can become monotonous and tiresome; now all of a sudden, you’re kind of the champion and cheerleader for somebody else who you know is hurting as well. And it makes it much harder to quit.

And then ultimately building a network. Three, four, five families where we can all keep our eyes out for trees that are going into harvest and abundances becoming available. And then, eventually reaching out and developing a gleaning network with farmers. Where, when you’ve got a team of three or four or five families; now all of a sudden you can be super useful to a farmer when they have abundance, either gather that or get it to families in need.

So I would say, if I were to really boil it down as far as our personal approach, it would be just those five areas. Self-reliance, eating seasonally and taking advantage of seasonal abundance that’s wasted, preservation, building community, and then ultimately developing a larger network that can keep their eyes open for stuff that’s going to waste.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I love that, Tyler. And something that I’m noticing. There’s a really strong theme in personal responsibility. It really sounds like you guys didn’t allow yourselves to be victim to not having enough money to afford what you want. You really were willing to go out and figure out a system in some very unconventional ways to make this work for you. And I think that’s really interesting.

A lot of people go to the store, and we have everything in all seasons. So we’re kind of lulled into thinking we can get whatever we want whenever we want. And we don’t really realize how against nature that is, right? Zucchini in January is just like; when you see things grow in the ground, you just realize how unusual that is. So I think that’s really awesome advice. And I would really encourage people to just kind of start thinking about seasonally. And how much extra there is at certain times of the year, and how they could take advantage of that. that is really smart thinking.

Tyler Boggs: And being easy on yourself. This desperation was born out of a victim mindset that had been in place for years. And so just because; so we took action once. It doesn’t mean we always took action. I think we were just kind of fed up. We were sick and tired of being sick and tired, we knew we needed to make a change, and nobody else was going to make it for us.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Tyler Boggs: It just takes that one decision to go from that mindset of; we can’t afford it. To.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. What am I going to do to fix it?

Tyler Boggs: How can we figure this out.

5. Produce scoring stories [24:24]

Mickey Trescott: I love that. that’s so empowering. That’s what we’re all about. So we know that you specialize in some really creative food sourcing, and you have some opportunities for people in our community. Can you share an interesting story of scoring some delicious food for very little or no money?

Tyler Boggs: {laughs} I could bore you with probably hours of stories. When it comes to; I think as you build a network and community, and really develop the mindset. Or as we developed the mindset that we were going to do this no matter what, doors started opening. And we started talking about sharing abundance with the community. And that was inspirational to many people.

So I had a gentleman call me and say; hey, I’ve got a guy and he works in sales for this company and they sell produce. There’s a bunch of waste, and here’s his name. And when we gave him a call, that developed into a relationship with our first wholesaler, which was Nasdaq produce.

We just gave him a call and said; hey, this is what we’re doing. We’ve got a farm. we’re feeding the community. We’re upcycling and gleaning, so if there’s anything that you guys ever have that goes to waste. And this was our first wholesale account. So we would pick up 55-gallon drums. We provided them with 55-gallon drums, and they would fill them with scraps and produce that they were throwing away. and we would bring it back to the farm, and the community would sort through them and pick out anything that was good.

And that ultimately; it started in a pickup truck, and then it went to a pickup truck and horse trailer, and it eventually went to a box truck. But that was thousands and thousands of pounds, just because we made the commitment that anything we had in abundance we were going to share with the community first. And that was a 3-year relationship, which actually opened the door to most of our other relationships.

And we had a similar story where a friend had a plum tree. Or a friend of a friend of a friend was actually I think how it went. But once people heard that we were sharing; gleaning and sharing with the community. Plum trees are one of those things that are super obnoxious to people in their backyard. Because when they fall, the yellow jackets get all over, and then their kids get stung with bees. So I’ve found everybody with pear and plum trees; everybody wants you to help with because they drop massive amounts in a very short period of time, because the bees go crazy and their kids get stung.

We actually were able to go and harvest hundreds and hundreds of pounds of these plums. We did it a separate time with pear trees, as well. And we just bring it back. We dry a bunch. We gave a bunch out fresh. The ones that weren’t super pretty we dried and dehydrated. And the ones that were even less pretty, we ended up pressing. We made the apples into apple cider vinegar, and the pears into… it’s amazing what you can do with a backyard and a couple of fruit trees.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I love that. the Pacific Northwest, especially. It kind of depends where people live. But I feel like we live in this climate that produces a bounty whether or not someone is tending or not. So between the blackberries and all the fruit trees. Even some of the greens, like dandelion greens and miner’s lettuce. Just the stuff that kind of grows as weeds everywhere. We have a bounty, whether or not we even put it there, you know?

Tyler Boggs: Absolutely. And the same is true, believe it or not, for livestock. We were talking about seasonal eating earlier. I think one of the things that happened early on for us is that I got a call from somebody that had pigs. And in the winter, pigs become super challenging. Especially if people aren’t prepared. And this person had had a couple of litters of pigs, and they weren’t prepared. And then in the middle of winter they needed to get rid of them. So they had four pigs. And they asked if we could take them. And I said; well we don’t really have room for them but I could probably find somebody that does.

So we created a relationship where if we found homes for three we would get one for free. And for us, that was a huge deal. So it just took some leg work to find homes for three pigs. Find three people that wanted; essentially they were selling them for half of what the market was selling at. So all we had to do was do a little bit of leg work, and to get a free pig out of the deal was just super incredible. And that’s hundreds and hundreds of dollars’ worth of meat.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, totally. Actually, Tyler, I don’t know if you know this, but we got a pig from you last year. My mom did. And she bred it, and now we have 9 pigs.

Tyler Boggs: {laughs} It happens quickly!

Mickey Trescott: She paid for the pig, but all of a sudden we’ve got all this meat running around. And she’s going to sell most of them. But what ended up as a couple-hundred dollar investment has turned into thousands of dollars. And they’re eating all of our waste. All of the scraps. Running around the farm, kind of taking over. So it’s kind of fun.

Tyler Boggs: That’s so good to hear. And I love that. the whole goal is to help people get self-sufficient. And it’s amazing how little it takes. People were so intimidated by it. But if we just decide that we’re going to do it, and then seek out the information. It really is simple. So great job; that’s super exciting to hear.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah! Well, I’ll tell you how it is on the other side when we’re all done with the pig experiment. But right now, it’s at peak cute. They’re really fun to have around.

Tyler Boggs: That’s awesome.

6. Sourcing when you can’t afford organic [29:45]

Mickey Trescott: So if people can’t afford only organic fruits and vegetables; this is a big topic in our community. What are your tips for sourcing?

Tyler Boggs: Oh wow. Well, sourcing. Specifically. I would say; I mean, we made a list of the top 20. You get the top 20 most toxic, and you just make sure that no matter what, those are 100% organic. And the good news is almost all of them grow incredibly well here. In your backyard. Like strawberries, and spinach, and apples, and peaches, and pears, grapes, and celery and tomatoes are on there. And potatoes. But all those things are really simple to grow and they grow really, really well here. So just making sure, whatever you do, the sourcing of those is super, super careful.

And then from there, I just really go back to question number two. Focusing on seasonal abundance. Preserving. Building community. Buying seed for those things first. Those are the most toxic. So if those are things that you’re committed to being part of your diet, go get an apple tree.

Better yet, here’s an idea. You can go get a willow branch, and soak it in water, and make willow tea. And then you can take a cutting off of an apple tree, cut a branch off, soak it in the tea for 24 hours and root it in the ground and make your own apple tree. You can make hundreds. We actually just did our starts for grapes and for figs this year. And for trimming, we found one gentleman that was pruning a fig tree. This was a couple of years back. And he just hated throwing it all on the burn pile. So we developed a relationship with him. So he would prune his fig trees. And we would come on pruning days, and we’d help him a little bit. And we’d pick up all the starts. And we just made over 800 fig trees from his pruning of his one tree this year.

Mickey Trescott: I love that. that’s super creative.

Tyler Boggs: The total cost; if you don’t’ want to make willow bark tea, you can actually buy rooting compound at a store. A bottle of it is like $6. So for $6 you create 600 trees. And it will feed hundreds of families. Anyway. That would be my recommendation, is start with the top 20. Make sure you get seeds for those.

Start talking to somebody that’s doing it so that you can get a coach, you can get a mentor. Or join a couple of Facebook groups. And really just put some seeds in the ground. Get some stuff started. The most important part is taking a step.

Mickey Trescott: I love that. Super awesome. It really shows you what you can do with a little creativity and a little work, starting to plant stuff. I know a lot of people are probably really intimidated. And I would say to any of you guys listening that has some space to grow stuff and you’re still feeling intimidated. Think of maybe how you felt before changing your diet. It was scary and unknown, and you did it, and now it’s not that hard. And I feel it’s really similar with growing things, you know. You might even start with just some herbs in a window sill before you kind of dip your toes into something like growing some of your greens or lettuces or planting a tree.

Tyler Boggs: And calling a friend, I think, is really important, as well. Every one of us knows somebody that gardens. And I felt kind of stupid calling. But just saying; hey look. Just putting it out there, and making a phone call. And saying; I’m committed to growing food for my family, but I’m really nervous about this. And I want to be transparent about my feelings. If I have questions, can I call you? And chances are great they’re going to be super excited for you and super willing to help.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, this is a lot of people’s hobby, you know. My grandma, that’s her hobby.

Tyler Boggs: Yeah. And that support system is important.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I love that.

Tyler Boggs: Whether it’s in nutrition and diet, and health, or whether it’s in gardening and growing food. Having somebody that’s a mentor that you can call when you get frustrated I think is really, really wonderful.

7. Benefits of a CSA [34:01]

Mickey Trescott: I love that. So Tyler, can you talk to us about the unique opportunities that CSAs present for both farmer’s and customers? We’d like to help people understand the risk and reward trust that goes into this arrangement. So with a CSA, people are paying a lot of money up front, and that actually helps the farmers be able to produce that harvest for the rest of the year.

Tyler Boggs: Yeah, the CSA, the community supported agriculture concept is super phenomenal. My experience is that risk is pretty minimal as long as you’re dealing with somebody that has been farming for a while. Risk is that I will get less broccoli and I will get more cabbage. So if that’s the risk to you, then maybe that’s something to take into consideration.

But the opportunity is really for people to save money. Generally speaking, CSAs are a fraction of what it would be to buy at the farmer’s market, or even buy local organic. Huge increase in quality, because you’re getting stuff that’s fresh from the land. Usually it’s picked that morning, and there’s no preservation methods. No shipping. So your quality is through the roof. And then you really get to eat seasonally. You get to eat what the land is producing.

Especially if you pick a farm that’s really doing soil building and regenerative farming. If they’re focused on vermiculture and increasing mycelium mycorrhizal cultures. The organic matter in the soil is really important. Then you’re getting a higher nutritional value. Because plant can’t create nutrients out of nothing. So if you’re really careful about the soil that’s being built underneath it and the farmer’s practices, then you’re getting, in your head of lettuce, up to 5-10 times more nutrients than you would be getting even in organic commercial products. Because it’s grown consciously, and the farmer is focused on soil building.

So there’s a big difference. With the CSA specifically, the farmer gets to plan their crops. Plan in advance. People don’t realize how expensive and how time-consuming farmer’s markets are. When we did; I don’t know, our first year we did farmer’s markets I think we did 6 or 8 of them. And it was amazing in talking to the other farmers; almost all of them, their goal was to break even. And it was really scary.

Because it was so expensive and so time consuming, that their goal was just to get the word out for their farm. and they literally didn’t make any money. So people are spending tons. They’re really paying top dollar at these farmer’s markets, not realizing that the farmer is not getting any of it. Because the cost to the farmer is so expensive.

So the CSA allows the farmer to do what a farmer does. Which is farm. He gets to focus on growing his food. He doesn’t have to go to the farmer’s market. He doesn’t have to stress about low-producing crops. He can focus on what’s really doing well that season. And really do what he does best, which is nourish the soil and grow crops and healthy livestock. As opposed to marketing.

Mickey Trescott: I love that. that’s really great, Tyler. Thank you so much for that, and thank you so much for this conversation. I think that this has been really eye opening for me. I feel really excited to get some more plants in the ground this year. And renewed in my excitement to just kind of support the local food system and kind of what you’re doing.

Will you let our listeners know what you and Elizabeth are working on right now, and kind of where they can find you guys, and how they can support you?

Tyler Boggs: OH, yeah, that would be wonderful. So we’ve got the food pantry, which is for everybody in need. There is no restriction. And that’s Good Neighbor Family Pantry. And that’s at www. GoodNeighborFamilyPantry.org. Or obviously on Facebook. Just Good Neighbor Family Pantry. And then the farm is Heart2Heart Farms. And that’s again on Facebook and on the web.

The farm has the work for livestock and work for meats program, where we allow people to show up. We set aside about 50% of everything that we produce for people to work-trade for and low-income families. We also do bartering for people that have old things they’re not using. Whether it’s tools or firearms and ammunition. Anything we can use out here on the farm. Just bartering.

We currently just launched a meat buyers club, which was previously a meat CSA. I’m not even sure if the website is up to date on it yet. But it allows people to have a 6-month subscription. And it saves them as much as 70% off of retail rates when it comes to meat. Which is really, really wonderful for a lot of folks that are hurting financially. And we’re finally delivering. We’re delivering all along the I-5 corridor. So all the way up to Olympia and all the way down to Roseburg, which is really kind of neat.

But the goal, everything that we do is really to help create self-sufficiency. We had a client that just reached out. He was buying rabbits every week. So I just asked him; I pulled him aside and said; look, you’re spending a bunch of money on rabbit every week. And he said, well it’s the only meat that doesn’t make me sick. We had a wonderful conversation about his health and about his goals. And I said; look. If you just spent what you would spend in two weeks on rabbits, I could get you a breeding trio, and I’ll teach you how to breed them. Because a lot of what we do is consultation. My goal is really to help people get self-sufficient.

So he bought a trio of rabbits, and I taught him how to breed. He just had his first litter of babies. So now he’s able to supply his family and his community with chemical-free meats from his backyard. And he’s no longer purchasing meat on a regular basis.

So that’s the other piece. If people are really serious about this, don’t be afraid to reach out to us. Send me a message on Facebook, or send us a message on the website. We do a lot of consultation. We do basic farm tours for people that are really serious about creating this lifestyle and want to come out and kind of see what we’re doing.

And then, of course, we try to provide resources that equip people. Everything from super foods and tuberose starch like Yukon and sunchoke, to even trailer rental and livestock hauling and helping people get established with breeding stock.

And then our foster pig program and birthday parties are super popular if you just want to support us. But go to the website, check us out. More than anything else, I would say just get started. This is simpler than you think it is, and feeing yourself chemical free; there’s been nothing that’s been more life changing for me.

Mickey Trescott: I love it so much, Tyler. Your passion really comes through. And I can’t believe I’m sitting here. And you’re like; “And then we do this food gleaning program. And then the meat.” It’s like, you guys are incredible. You can tell that your fires are lit, and you and Elizabeth really care about your community and spreading this information far and wide. So thank you so much for what you do and agreeing to have this conversation.

Everybody else, we’ll be back next week. I hope you guys are super inspired. Take care.

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

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The post S3 E4 – Sourcing Vegetables w/ Tyler Boggs appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 3 is all about options for sourcing high-quality meat. We start by discussing the concept of “good, better, and best” when it comes to meat quality, and share how we source our meat.

Then, we interview Diana Rodgers, the creator of the new documentary Kale vs. Cow, about how to best source protein other than beef, and what we can all do to become more sustainable. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. Quality of meat on a scale [3:29]
2. How Mickey and Angie source their meat [8:22]
3. Interview with Diana Rodgers [20:45]
4. Sourcing protein other than beef [26:23]
5. Joining the sustainability movement [29:07]
6. Kale Versus Cow documentary [36:57]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everybody! Mickey here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 3. How’s it going today, Angie?

Angie Alt: It’s going well. I’m excited to talk about this topic. I know it’s kind of weird, but I’m sort of into it.

Mickey Trescott: So, today, we’re continuing our discussion related to the topic of the season; real food on a budget. Today’s episode is going to be about options for sourcing high-quality meat. So this is one of the important parts of the autoimmune protocol diet, whether or not you’re on the elimination diet or you’ve done some reintroductions. Making sure that you have some high-quality meat on your plate is definitely important.

So first, let’s have a chat about this concept of good, better, and best. Angie, do you want to kind of give a little overview of what we mean by that?

Angie Alt: Yeah. It’s basically a scale that we like to use when we’re comparing food quality. I think we first developed it when we wrote our book. Is that right, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Angie Alt: When we wrote The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook, we kind of developed this scale. Because we really wanted folks to understand that just going for it in terms of making a dietary change for healing is worthwhile. Even if it can’t be perfect. We wanted to kind of dispel this perfectionism myth, and help folks understand that there’s a scale here. And how to best use that scale for whatever your budget and your sourcing abilities are.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. And I think that’s really important that you highlighted two reasons why it might be different. So, budget and accessibility. Sometimes people have barriers in both those areas. Sometimes one and not the other. So just because you can afford something doesn’t mean you can always find it, and vice versa.

1. Quality of meat on a scale [3:29]

Angie Alt: Yeah. So let’s start at the far end of the scale. Let’s start with good. When we say good, in terms of meat quality, we’re talking about if you can’t afford or source grass-fed, or pastured meats, or wild-caught seafood. You can focus on buying leaner cuts of conventionally raised meats. You can still try to make sure they’re at least hormone free. They should be. There are regulations around this stuff. But you can work on adding more organ meats and fish to your diet.

Conventionally raised organ meat is inexpensive, and it’s still very nutrient dense. And farmed fish is better for you than no fish at all. I know there’s a lot of folks that there that are going to balk at that, but you can even check in with the Paleo Mom. She’s done the research here. It’s better to get some fish in, no matter what.

You can also consider wild-caught canned salmon, tuna, or sardines. Which are relatively cheap, but they’re still packed with nutritional value. Be sure to look for canned fish that’s free of soy and spices, though, if you’re following the autoimmune protocol.

And then, you can limit how much conventionally raised poultry you eat, since it does have the lowest value in terms of nutrition. What we mean by buying leaner cuts of other kinds of meat is; looking for less fat. The toxins that kind of accumulate in an animal that’s been fed a less than healthy diet tends to be in the fat. So if you bought conventionally raised pork, you’d trim off the fat on those pork chops. If you had to buy conventionally raised beef, you’d trim off the fat there. That’s what we mean by leaner.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And that kind of goes a little bit against what we normally recommend with AIP. Which is to eat the fat. And that’s because we are advocating for eating higher quality meat. But it’s totally ok, and there is no shame, if you can only afford conventionally raised meat. Just be cautious with that fat content.

And a lot of people actually ask about the organ meats. They think that maybe because it’s conventionally raised, that those are a no-go. But actually organ meats are very lean, and conventionally raised organ meats are still ok. And they’re very, very affordable.

The next level up is what we call better. So kind of one step above good is if you can afford or source some organic grass-fed or pastured meats. Or even that wild-caught seafood. Focus on buying those fatty cuts. So this is where you can kind of play with the boundary between the different food qualities that you have available to you.

Like we said, that fat is really good for you. It’s also where a lot of the toxins are stored. So if you can afford a little bit of that higher quality stuff, think those fatty roasts. Maybe some salmon filets. You might even be able to find some high-quality ground meat on sale from time to time. So you can stock up and freeze that. So that’s kind of how you can use both of those categories to your advantage if you have a little bit in your budget for a little bit higher quality meat.

Angie Alt: Right. And then the next step up. This is other far end of the scale. This is what we call best; we refer to as best. That’s getting all your meat and seafood organic grass-fed or pastured, and wild caught. That’s the ideal that we hope we’re all aiming for. Our budget and our sourcing is able to meet both of these.

This is like finding farmers or fishmongers from whom you can buy directly in bulk in order to save the most money while still getting the highest quality. You can ask the farmers about buying beef, pork, or lamb in wholes, halves, or quarters. This is buying the whole animal, half the animal, quarter of the animal, to save money.

You might be able to share meat with a group of friends if you don’t have enough freezer space or you don’t need to have such large quantities of meat. Buying in bulk keeps the cost down, but you may not have a need for all of that. So sharing is one way to deal with it. It gives you the advantage of the lower bulk price and the higher quality meat.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And I really think at this best level, we’re not really saying that this is food sourced from a grocery store. But actually at the highest level, ideally you’re working directly with a farmer that is local to you. So for some people, they don’t have local farms around them. You might be ordering meat online from different sources that maybe ship you frozen meat or something.

But ideally, everyone should have; in a perfect world, we all have local farms that are raising sustainable and healthy meat that we can actually work directly. And then you can actually go kind of see what the animals are eating. How they’re being treated. And all of that is kind of another add-on to that.

2. How Mickey and Angie source their meat [8:22]

Angie Alt: So maybe, Mickey, we could talk about how each of us sources our own protein. Because we have different approaches.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, for sure. We live on opposite sides of the country. Our local food systems are a little bit different. And kind of our life stages and living situations are a little different, too. So, I live on a farm. Although we don’t raise a lot of animals for meat here, but I live in a farming community. So access to quality meat is actually pretty easy for me.

One of my neighbors raises a few cattle every year just for the neighborhood on grass. So I buy a cow from my neighbor, and we have it frozen. We buy half and my mom and my sister buy the other half. So we split it. And I keep it in the deep freezer. And that lasts us about a year.

For salmon, we have a CSA. Because I live in the Pacific Northwest, so there are a lot of salmon CSAs where a company will go up to Alaska in the summer and they will fish for salmon and then freeze everything on the boat and then bring it back and you buy it in 10/20-pound boxes. So we get a couple of boxes in the summer, and that lasts us for the whole year.

And then chicken is actually hardest for me to source, just because it’s very seasonal in my area. So I do have some great farms that raise chicken. But not only is it very expensive, but they’ll raise a group of chickens, and they will harvest all of them. And then when you buy them, I’ll usually buy maybe 12 to 15 chickens. It takes up a lot of room. And that’s the one I have a harder time planning with.

So ideally I get them in whole chickens, bulk from a local farm. But I do supplement that with some of the maybe better quality Whole Foods chicken. And then pork, I have got sourced pork locally from different farms by the half. But this year we’re actually raising our own pigs for the first time. So that’s kind of exciting.

In the past, though. Now I’ve kind of maybe got it pretty figured out, because I lived on a farm and it’s a lot easier for me than a lot of other people to source meat. But I will say I have lived in the city before I lived out here in the country, and I have had to have some pretty creative sourcing ideas to get really good meat on the table.

So some things that I did when I lived in Seattle, first off I had a deep freezer when I had a living situation that wasn’t really ideal for a deep freezer. So I really prioritized that. I bought a little one. It wasn’t giant by any means. But I realized early on that being able to store meat long-term in a freezer was going to help me get more affordable meat. So that was great.

I did a CSA for a while in Seattle, where they would deliver me monthly. So I think it was something like 10 or 15 pounds of meat they would deliver in a cooler to the neighborhood. Then you’d go to the house and kind of pick up your order. And that was really handy, because that was before I had the deep freezer.

Another thing that I did, just as far as affordability. There was a local farm that I liked to buy organ meat at the farmer’s market. Because their prices, I couldn’t afford for the muscle meat. But I was buying organ meat from them because it was like $3-4 a pound for a heart, liver, or kidney.

And I asked them one day; “Do you guys ever end up with a bunch of leftover, freezer burned meat at the end of the season?” And they were like, “Yeah, we have a freezer full of that.” I was like, “What if I bought a quarter of a cow, but just in freezer burned meat. Would you give me a deal?” And they were like; “Actually, we’ll charge you for a quarter of a cow, but we’ll give you half a cow. But we’ll just give you all of the old stuff.” And I was like, heck yeah. That’s amazing.

So, all I had to do was slice off that little freezer burned piece, and it really wasn’t that big of a deal. And I got really high-quality meat. And it was really cheap. I actually shared it with my brother, who was trying to eat healthier. So that was one thing I did.

Another thing that we did when we lived in Seattle was we had a friend who had some lambs that they offered to sell us one. And my husband wanted to learn how to harvest them. So they were like; if you come out to the farm for a day and help us harvest some of the lambs, then we’ll give you one. So we did that.

My husband has kind of been into hunting and fishing throughout the year, so that’s been another kind of alternative way of getting some, obviously, wild meat.

Angie Alt: Awesome options there. I love hunting and fishing!

Mickey Trescott: I know. It’s not always a guarantee.

Angie Alt: Yeah, not always a guarantee.

Mickey Trescott: It’s a little more fun than useful. But it’s nice when it works out.

Angie Alt: Yeah, right. So I grew up with a lot of hunting and fishing, but that’s not really a good option for me anymore. I live halfway between DC and Baltimore, basically, in a very, very urban/suburban area. And that’s not really a reality of my life right now.

What I do in terms of beef, pork, and lamb is get through a local farmer and my friend through a quarterly CSA. So we pay every 3 months for 20-22 pounds of meat for the following three months. And we just pick it up from the farm monthly. And it’s just kind of a selection of the three. It’s all 100% grass-fed, pasture raised, non-GMO. She kind of goes out of her way to adopt all the best practices for raising meat of this kind. So it’s really high quality.

In terms of fish, salmon especially, occasionally I get that through bulk shares with friends who are connected to Alaskan fishermen. So they have connections with them. And we buy a whole bunch at once. And then it gets shipped her after it’s been frozen on the boat. And we split it up and all share it.

But more often, I have to do it through the grocery store. Sometimes I can get really high quality, wild caught, on sale. And sometimes I use farmed salmon, you guys. Like we were talking about earlier. Eating seafood is better for me than eating none. So sometimes that’s what I do. I also, of course, use canned salmon, canned tuna, those kinds of things so I can get the best quality for a little cheaper.

And then, like Mickey said, chicken is very hard to source, even here. So occasionally I can get it through local farms. Really high-quality chicken that’s been pastured and everything. But more often, I have to get it through the grocery store. And I try to pick really the best quality I can find in the grocery store. And when it’s on sale, I’ll tend to buy a lot of it and kind of stock up and have it available.

That said, we only have chicken in the rotation in our diet about once a week. So we don’t have a super, super high need for it. But I keep the best quality I can kind of stocked up in our freezer that way.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, something I wanted to mention, too, is occasionally I will order online. So US Wellness Meats. Because I order a lot of stuff throughout the year. And then it’s august, our freezer is full. And through the rest of the year we’re kind of draining through it. I’ll run out of things. Like, really often, those organ meats. I just don’t have enough, and the farms will be out.

Sometimes I order from US Wellness, and I’ll get their sugar free bacon, which is pastured. Its’ really good. And actually what I get is the ends, and I use that to make my pates. Because they don’t need to be slices. It’s a lot cheaper than buying the slices of bacon. It’s just kind of the ends from making the bacon. And then I’ll also get chicken liver, and beef liver, and sometimes even bison or lamb liver. Because they have the highest quality, and they have pretty good prices on the organ meats. And they ship everything frozen, so it’s really convenient.

Angie Alt: Right. For instance, in my CSA, I usually take advantage of a lot of the ground meats. The other folks subscribing to that CSA with my farmer are looking for nice steaks and things like that. I’ll usually try and get as much of the ground meat as I can and kind of stretch that really far.

And as much of the organs I can get, I’ll take them. But you know, there’s only one liver per animal. Only one heart per animal. So sometimes it’s hard to source those, even from my local farmer. I’m always like; keep it a secret. Don’t tell anybody you have it. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Once I was visiting my local farmer, and she was like; “Oh, that whole freezer is full of liver. You can have as much as you want.”

Angie Alt: Oh my gosh.

Mickey Trescott: And I was like; “You do know who you’re talking to, right?” So you guys, the secret is kind of out. I’ve even noticed, since I started writing about eating more organ meat. I think I wrote once on my blog. I mentioned my source and that I paid $3 a pound. And then someone emailed me and said; “They’ve raised their prices to $7 because everyone’s buying them out of liver.” And I was like, oh man. The secret is out you guys. They know that people want it now. And unfortunately, the price is going up just a little bit.

Angie Alt: That all I said. I mentioned at the beginning of this episode that I’m really excited to talk about this topic. I think the reason I’m so excited is because I really do know my farmers. And I really have become close friends with those people. And I really respect what they do. So I’m happy for them, that they’re seeing this positive change in being able to earn a living providing this really high-quality food for all of us.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I totally agree. This is where the majority of my food budget goes, is actually sourcing high quality meat. And I’m really happy to be spending a little more money than maybe I think it should cost. Although, when you visit the farm and you see how much work and we’re actually seeing now with the pigs, actually how much effort and food it goes into to kind of feed these animals, and the time, and just kind of rotating them around and cleaning up after them. It’s a lot of work. And it’s very valuable. And when done well, it’s definitely worth it.

I’m less likely to want to pay those same prices in the grocery store. So when you work directly with your farmer, you kind of see where your money is going. And then when you kind of go to those specialty grocers. Sometimes it’s even more expensive than working directly with a farmer. I’m really turned off by that. So I really don’t buy a lot of meat or seafood at the grocery store, if I can avoid it.

Angie Alt: Ok you guys. We’ll be back after the break to chat with a lady who is going to help us go even deeper into this topic. She basically knows everything about it. Stay tuned.

Mickey Trescott: A quick word from our title sponsor this evening, The Nutritional Therapy Association. In the next segment, we’re about the jump on the line with another NTP like myself, Diana Rodgers. Both of us received our certifications from our podcast sponsor this season, The Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA emphasizes local, whole, properly prepared, nutrient dense foods, like well sourced meat, as the key to restoring balance and enhancing the body’s ability to heal. They are committed to educating the community about humane, sustainable farming practices, as well as about sourcing, preparation, and healing properties of well raised and wild-caught animal products.

Their nutritional therapy practitioner course has workshop venues all across the US, Canada, and Australia. So if this is something that you’re interested in, it’s like there will be a venue that works for you. Check out the free 7-day nutritional therapy 101 course and learn more about the NTP program at www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

3. Interview with Diana Rodgers [20:45]

Angie Alt: Hi everybody! We are back with Diana Rodgers. She is a real food, licensed registered dietician nutritionist, and a fellow nutritional therapist. She lives on a working organic farm in Massachusetts. She’s also an international speaker, author, podcast host, and mom. Plus, Diana is the force behind the upcoming documentary, Kale Versus Cow. It’s safe to say that if you want to know anything about nutrition and sustainability, social justice, animal welfare, or food policy issues, she is the lady. We have tremendous respect at Autoimmune Wellness for Diana’s work in our community. Welcome, Diana.

Diana Rodgers: Hi, thanks for having me.

Angie Alt: Yeah, thanks for being here. As you know, we’re going to dive into the specifics of sourcing high quality meat when undertaking a healing protocol like AIP. But in the most budget conscious ways. And we know this is an area of expertise for you, and we’re excited to pick your brain.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, great. Shoot away with your questions.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. So first, Diana, we’d like to start out with a big why. Our audience should be familiar by now on the argument for eating animals that have been feed a biologically appropriate diet. But can you give us a simple rundown of why it’s so important for us to care about our meat quality in this way?

Diana Rodgers: Sure. There are three main reasons, I think, that are so important to buy better meat. One is just the nutrition aspects of it. Two would be the environmental benefits of it. So a little bit bigger picture. And then three would be the ethical reasons.

So I’m on the board of Animal Welfare Approved. And animals that are raised in a way that works with nature. Much more close to how they would live in the wild is just; not only environmentally better and produces better meat. But it’s also kinder to the animals.

So when folks are sort of making their decisions about what kinds of meat to buy, I think that it should be equally important to want to source meat that was raised in a way that the animals were treated well. That they were given a swift, humane slaughter. And that was in a way that was regenerative to our soils and to the land.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I think that regenerative quality to the soil is a really important piece that a lot of people really miss. Can you give some examples of maybe how animals can be raised in a way that actually heals the planet? Because I think a lot of people are familiar with the argument that animal husbandry is destroying the planet?

Diana Rodgers: Sure. My focus lately has been mostly on red meat. Because first of all, it’s the most nutrient dense when you look at land farmed animals. So compared to chicken or pork, red meat from ruminants has B12 and iron, and the other two don’t really have that. And the fatty acid profile of grass-fed red meat far exceeds that of typical chicken or pork.

So, it is possible to find pasture raised chicken and pasture raised pork. But it’s a lot easier to find grass-fed beef. So that’s why I like to sort of focus more on that. And it’s also the most vilified for health reasons and for environmental reasons, and wrongly so.

So when we look at the environmental impact of well managed cattle, what we see is a system that actually works much more similar to a healthy ecosystem out in nature. So when we have cows, or cattle I should say, that are grazing in a well-managed system. So not just out on grass. It’s even deeper than that. When they’re managed in a way that; some people call it holistic management. Some people call it mob grazing. There’s a bunch of different terms.

Basically, it’s intensively grazing the cattle on a small piece of land, and then moving them quite frequently in order to maximize the nutrition for the cattle. So they’re not just running around, picking at their favorite grasses and different species in there. They’re eating everything down, and then they’re quickly moved on so the land has a chance to rest. And in that rest period is when we can see carbon sequestration. The manure is having a chance to inoculate the soil with healthy bacteria.

And it also supports just a healthy ecosystem with more pollinators, insects, more birds. So it’s a much healthier ecosystem when you look at cows that are managed that way. Which is similar to, if you picture herds of grazers in Africa moving across the savannah, they’re moving quickly because they’re moving away from predators. And we can mimic that with electric fencing, and just keep on moving them. And that way the land actually has a chance to heal and it’s not overgrazed.

Angie Alt: OK. We’re getting the full education here, you guys.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah, I don’t know how deep to go because I know we don’t have a ton of time.

Angie Alt: No, we love it.

Diana Rodgers: Also their impact improves water holding capacity. So when it rains, the land actually acts more like a sponge instead of flooding and landslides. Which can happen in more brittle environments. So particularly in areas where it’s more desert like, grazing animals on that land instead of cropping it is just a win-win.

4. Sourcing protein other than beef [26:23]

Angie Alt: That’s awesome. So I’m just a little bit curious, now, Diana. And I know that it’s easier to source grass-fed beef and how this works with the cattle. But can you explain how does this work in terms of pork or chicken?

Diana Rodgers: Birds eat seeds. So even people that raise pastured chicken general feed their chickens grains. Because chickens and pigs are monogastric. They actually process grains a lot better than cattle. Which are ruminants, and really do best on grass.

So here on our farm, we do chickens for eggs. We used to do chickens for meat. But actually, to do it right, it’s quite expensive. And people just aren’t used to paying $25-30 for a chicken. They’re used to paying, I don’t know; what do I pay at Whole foods? $10 or something like that. Or even less, at a conventional store.

What we do to make it a more regenerative system, is we run our grazing animals through the field, and then we follow with the chickens. And the chickens are actually aerating the soil. They scratching around. They’re eating any parasites that might be left from the grazing animals. And their manure is actually fertilizing the soil, as well. And their eggs are like 20 times higher in omega-3s. And I think Joel Salatan’s chickens were tested at like 4000 times higher beta carotene than a typical egg.

With our pigs, we run them through the woods. And they’re doing a couple of things for us. They’re clearing the land for us. So pigs are really good at eating lots of brush, and rooting. So literally chomping on roots. So they’re doing that. They’re eating a lot of leftover crops that we can’t sell anyway, because they might not be as pretty. Maybe the outer leaves of the lettuce when we’re harvesting are not as nice. So we’ll save those. We give those to the pigs. They love that stuff.

They actually prefer broccoli and lettuce to grain. But because we’re in New England, we also do feed them a soy-free organic grain, as well. And again, pigs do very well on grain. They can convert that grain to incredibly nutrient dense protein.

So I think there’s a place for all animals, but grazing animals in particular are one of the best species we can have. So bison, lamb, goats, and cows are the best ones that we have for really regenerating grasslands and soil.

5. Joining the sustainability movement [29:07]

Mickey Trescott: Really cool. Diana, how did you see some of the issues maybe facing the accessibility? Because this type of really well produced, ethically and sustainably produced meat is not available to a lot of people. Both because it’s an affordability thing, but also the nature of the local food system is that it’s not really going to work to be putting that meat in a store, right? People are going to be kind of buying direct from their farmer. How do you see that shift? How can people find out more about where they can find a farm like yours where they’re kind of raising meat in this way?

Diana Rodgers: Sure. There are different websites people can go to to search for locally produced meat. So if people make the investment of having a freezer and want to buy directly from a farmer, that’s ideal. It’s not practical for everybody. Not everyone has the time or space or just desire, right, to go visit a farm.

But if folks want to do that, eatwild.com or localharvest.org are two websites where they connect directly with farmers near them. Or maybe through their local Weston A. Price chapter.

And then I highly recommend they visit the farm and look. Because you can learn a lot. Like, does it look like that cow has been on the same patch of land for a long time? Is the grass super, super short? Is it really patchy? Or do you see a lot of electric fencing and the farmers moving the animals around. So that would be a much better system. And it should feel clean. It should look clean. There shouldn’t be strong smells. Everything should be mobile, basically, which is the healthiest way to raise animals.

And then the next level would be going to a farmer’s market, talking to the farmers, finding out about their practices there. So that might be a little bit easier for people that are in a more urban environment and maybe don’t have space or the money to have a chest freezer and really make a big investment at once.

So I think sustainability can look like a lot of different things depending on who you’re talking to and what level they’re at. So it doesn’t have to be everybody buying directly from a farm. Even though that’s optimal, it might be unrealistic if we’re trying to really convert a lot of people.

But I think the biggest thing we need to do is really educate people on why it’s so important to buy their meat this way, and to really breakdown those ideas that meat is unhealthy. Or that red meat is unhealthy. And people should be eating more CAFO chicken. So typically raised chicken or pork, compared to beef. Grass-fed beef is, again, the most nutritious and, when raised well, one of the most environmentally beneficial animals we can have for food.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. I see a big hesitation from people, even when they are ok eating paleo and AIP and eating red meat, they still tend to kind of prioritize the chicken. Because they’re so indoctrinated that that lower fat meat is going to be better for them, when they kind of haven’t opened up to that understanding about the nutrient density and about the affordability.

I mean, grass-fed beef for you guys. But for me to get the highest quality beef, that’s the cheapest protein that I can find around here sourced at the highest level. And that nutrient density piece is really important.

Diana Rodgers: We need to also open up to other cuts of meat, too. Right? Like, ground meat is a lot cheaper. We don’t all have to eat tenderloin all the time. And one of the nice things about buying a whole animal, or even living on a farm where we raise animals, is I have a much bigger respect for the life of that animal and using all the pieces. And saving the bones and making stock from the bones and everything. So I’m much less likely to waste it if I know the animal, or have spent a lot of money on the animal. Really make that connection that a life is now being transformed into food for me.

Angie Alt: Right. Diana, you said that you feel like one of the most important things we can do is help people understand the why in terms of sourcing this kind of quality of meat and shifting our budgets to focus on this kind of quality of meat. If somebody in our audience was having this conversation with a friend or family member for the first time, where do you think is the most important place to start with that why?

Diana Rodgers: I think it’s hard. Because as a dietician, with my clinical practice, just eat meat, right? Just start eating meat. And just fix yourself. Some people stop there. But what I’ve also found is that people that have really transformed their health. So coming from a place where they were really unhealthy, really sick with an autoimmune disease. Those are the best ones to then take a step further and really focus on their sourcing. Much more so than people that maybe just wanted their four pack to become a six pack, or something like that. Right?

And so I think that people that have really seen a huge health transformation, just in eating better quality food then will go towards looking a little bit deeper and trying to support the producers that are doing it right.

Angie Alt: Yeah, I mean, obviously. Mickey and I are “amen”-ing over here.

Diana Rodgers: Yeah.

Angie Alt: We definitely relate to that.

Diana Rodgers: And as a practitioner, too, they’re the most satisfying for me to work with. Because they’ll do anything to change their health. Right? So I guess going back to your initial question. If we’re trying to have a conversation with people. Allan Savory’s TED Talk is a really good one to watch. Maybe you could put it in your show notes. But that’s a really great; people need to understand the big picture of why we need more diversity in a healthy ecosystem. Why animals can help increase that. And why plant-based agriculture and grain-based agriculture is actually destroying our soils.

So animals that eat grain, like chicken and pork, in general, are just not as sustainable as animals that eat only grass. And just a quick note, too, because this comes a lot for people that just aren’t familiar with the different types of agriculture. But there’s cropland, and then there’s pastureland. And most of our agricultural land is actually much better suited to pasture than to cropping. So you just can’t grow kale, and lettuce, and grains everywhere. But you can graze animals on most of the earth’s surface.

So think of Mongolia. Think of Iceland. Think of most of Africa. There’s just not enough water for the irrigation. There’s hills. There’s rocks. There’s all kinds of things that would hold back from a cropping system. And even the areas that we are cropping, we’re using largely chemical ag in order to do that. Instead of small scale, sustainable agriculture that actually incorporates animals, too. On our farm we raise vegetables and meat, and we do everything in a rotational, regenerative way.

Mickey Trescott: Super cool.

6. Kale Versus Cow documentary [36:57]

Angie Alt: I love it. I totally could just go on and on. Maybe you can tell our listeners; how can they get involved in this movement? Both in terms of their own sourcing actions as consumers. What are the top actions they can take with their pocketbooks? But then also in terms of just straight up activism. How could they best get involved?

Diana Rodgers: Well, they could follow my newsletter and all the work that I’m doing and learn more about all those things there. It’s a deep and complex subject to really dive into it. It requires just a lot of basic education on ecological systems. Learning about the Savory Institute and other people that are using regenerative agriculture to heal the land.

I’ve got a film project that I’m working on.

Mickey Trescott: Yes, please tell everybody about it.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Diana Rodgers: So the film project is called Kale Versus Cow. And I’ll be looking at the nutrition, environmental, and ethical reasons why we need more better meat, basically, in our diet. So we need more of a demand for it. We need to understand the nutritional implications. We need to understand the environmental implications. And why, from a perspective of least harm, why actually consuming well managed grass eating large ruminants is actually causing less harm than a plant-based diet, from many different perspectives.

So we’ll be interviewing a lot of nutrition experts. People that are measuring their carbon sequestration on their farms, so we can actually see the result. So it’s not just something that, if you visit a farm and you see the pastures look healthy. But we actually have quantifiable results now.

And we’ll be diving into the ethics. Because honestly, that is the biggest driver, I think, behind why people decide to give up meat. It’s really this sort of emotional quandary that they’re facing when they’re looking at the idea that an animal died in order for them to eat. So we’ll sort of be taking a very sensitive dive into that.

And I want to make it clear that if I lived in a city and didn’t understand food production, and my only nutrition education was films like Cowspiracy or What the Health, I’d probably be vegan too. Except for the fact that I’m celiac, and it would probably wreck my health because I just don’t do well on a plant-based diet.

And I get why people feel uncomfortable about eating meat. But I also want to point out that a lot of death actually happens in order for plants to land on your plate. So I’ll be really sensitively diving into that, as well. And so we have a campaign. It’s at sustainabledish.com/film. So folks can see me on my farm. I have a video there explaining what the film is about. I’ve got a nice video endorsement from Joel Salatan. Some cool perks and all that. We’ll be updating people as we move forward with our project. So that’s it, too.

And I also am learning about more opportunities for people to get involved. I’ve got a call with somebody tomorrow, actually, and I’ll be posting some information about how people can actually get involved in helping to document the success of this sort of nutrient dense, pasture-based farming.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome.

Diana Rodgers: So I’ll be putting that out in my newsletter, as well.

Mickey Trescott: We’re so looking forward to all the stuff you’re doing, Diana. It’s great. It’s really great. You guys, definitely plug into Diana’s resources. Check out that Savory Institute video. I know that TED Talk was really transformative for me when I watched it the first time. It just kind of clicked. So all of the stuff she’s talking about is kind of next level, and we all need to get involved in order to kind of change the food system. It’s really needed. To save both our health and the planet.

Angie Alt: And if our listeners aren’t sure about the Savory Institute; back when we ran the Autoimmune Wellness Library bundle sale, a lot of you guys helped donate to the Savory Institute. So great work there.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. Thank you so much, Diana, for agreeing to have this conversation with us today. For those of you guys listening back home, we’ll be back next week. You guys have a great one. We’ll see you soon.

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

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The post S3 E3 – Sourcing Meat w/ Diana Rodgers appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 2 is all about how to implement some kitchen hacks to help you save money on food. We discuss our personal best practices when it comes to getting food on the table affordably, the first of which is meal planning. Some of you have heard us chat about these topics before, but just stick with us, because you may not have looked at the benefits from this angle before.

Then, we chat with Alaena Haber of Grazed and Enthused about her favorite AIP kitchen tools and how she sets herself up for success in an AIP kitchen. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:

1. The benefits of meal planning [1:40]
2. All about batch cooking [14:59]
3. How Mickey and Angie implement meal planning and batch cooking [26:20]
4. Guest interview, Alaena Haber: AIP kitchen tools [33:14]
5. Setting up your AIP kitchen [40:15]
6. Alaena’s favorite batch cooked AIP recipes [43:10]
7. Myth busting about an AIP blogger’s pantry [45:37]
8. How cooking changed with a baby [50:15]

1. The benefits of meal planning [1:40]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Angie here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 3. How are you doing today, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I’m doing great. How about you, Angie?

Angie Alt: I’m good. I’m excited to talk about this topic. Today we’re continuing our discussion related to the topic this season, which is real food on a budget. This episode is going to be about how to implement some kitchen hacks to help you save money on food.

Before we even get into sourcing food, we wanted to take a little detour and discuss about some of the best practices that, when used effectively, will really help you in the kitchen. Some of you have heard us chat about these topics before, but just stick with us, because you may not have looked at the benefits from this angle before.

Mickey, there’s a couple of topics here. Let’s start with a biggie; what is meal planning?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So meal planning is something that we talk about a lot, but it’s because it really solves a lot of problems. But meal planning is really the act of just sitting down with a pen and paper, or with some software, which we’ll maybe talk about later. Maybe an app on your phone, maybe calendar. And just writing down what you’re going to eat and when.

It maybe for some people seems a little bit obsessive, and a little bit like too much. But honestly, meal planning is something that is going to help you a lot. And we’ll talk about all the benefits to it. But some different ways that you can meal plan are, like I said, you could just sit down with a sheet of paper and you could say; ok, for Monday dinner I’m going to make a roast chicken. For Tuesday dinner, I’m going to make a roast beef. For Wednesday, maybe I’ll try to work in some seafood.

So it can be something really simple, like just planning the major protein and then kind of letting the vegetables fill in as you find certain deals at the farmer’s market, or the grocery store. Or you can actually literally plan every single breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snack through your meal planning exercise.

So you can use different apps to do this. We are really big fans of a service called Real Plans. Which is an online software-based solution that actually has all of our AIP recipes in our books and on our blog as part of their membership plan. And it’s really affordable. And what they do, you plug in kind of all the things that you’re avoiding, or that you’re eating. And then it will kind of randomly generate you a bunch of recipes that you can then plug into different slots. So that’s the most high-tech version of meal planning.

And then the most low tech, which is actually more along the lines of what I do, is just using a pen and paper. Maybe on a calendar. I actually do it often on my calendar on my computer that I use for all my work and my personal things. And then I’ll just have, at the end of the day, roast that chicken. Just so I know; ok, later today, this is what I’m going to do. So logistically, that’s how someone would meal plan. Do you have anything to add about that, Angie?

Angie Alt: Not too much. You kind of covered all the bases. I’m like you at this point. I’ve been meal planning for a really, really long time. Even before I got into the AIP lifestyle. And I just do it super low tech. Pen and paper, kind of boring.

Sometimes I use Real Plans, because it’s a cool tool and I like playing around with it from time to time. But I usually keep it pretty simple.

Mickey Trescott: When I was first getting started, I was doing more of that meal planning every single meal, every single snack. Just making sure I had all my bases covered. Because of course when something is new, it’s a lot harder to trouble shoot and make decisions in the moment. When you have everything planned out, you just know what you’re going to eat and you know when to cook and it just works out. I would have loved to have Real Plans in the beginning. Because I definitely was meal planning to that level back then.

Angie, let’s talk a little bit about how meal planning helps people save money.

Angie Alt: Mickey just touched on a biggie, and I do the same thing that she does. You plan meals around that main protein, and select that based on your budget and sourcing. You’ll know that you have the protein that you need for the day. And we all know that protein is the most expensive item on the menu, so kind of starting there is really smart. I do exactly what Mickey does. I start with whatever is going to be the main protein for my meal.

And by doing the whole meal plan at once, I also help make sure that we rotate our proteins and get the different vitamins and minerals and nutrition that comes from those different sources. And not overeat one kind of protein over another. Especially poultry, with those omega-6 fats. So this way, I make sure that my family gets a little bit of grass-fed beef. A little bit of pastured pork. A little bit of chicken, but not too much. And a couple of servings of seafood a week.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, you can also pick whatever protein is most affordable to you, and put it on your menu more often. I mean, if you leave it up to whim, and kind of what you feel like you want to eat in terms of flavor, you might be finding; “I want to make those scallops! Or I want to make that tri-tip!” or something that’s a little bit more expensive. You might be able to just be like; no, actually we’re going to have a lot of meat balls and meat loaf, and chicken thighs. That kind of thing.

Angie Alt: Mickey, there’s another biggie. Maybe you can dive into this one a little bit. Meal planning reduces waste.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So by planning out your meals, one of the best things is actually that you avoid having too much food. So when you make a meal plan, then you make a shopping list from your meal plan. And then you make what you intend to. You’re not going to end up with a bunch of extra food that you just bought on a whim, thinking, “How much do I need to buy for a weeks’ worth of groceries?”

How many of us have gone to the grocery store without a plan, put whatever looked good into our cart, and then maybe 5 or 6 days later realized half of our vegetables are kind of wilty and looking sad in the back of the fridge because we didn’t have a plan to eat them? And that is, for me at least, the biggest way to reduce waste in my kitchen. Is actually to have a plan for using all the produce, especially if I buy.

If I don’t have a plan, then I find that even when I am really excited about something, I’m notorious with salad greens for this. Especially if I ever buy boxed salad greens, which I only do rarely. Because I have this problem. What ends up happening is they go bad so fast that I just kind of forgot about them, and that’s not good. We want to save money by using everything we buy.

Angie Alt: Right, exactly. I have to say that even back before my AIP days, when I was still a menu planner even then. This was the biggest reason I did it. Because I was really trying to reduce waste in our family. So making a plan helped me stick with it.

I also find, and you kind of just touched on this Mickey, it reduces impulse buying. If you’re just kind of not sure what’s going to be on the table every night, and you just run out to the store and buy whatever is kind of convenient at that time, you’re going to end up having a very expensive grocery bill.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah! For sure. When I’m meal planning, I’m finding that I spend most of my time in the produce aisle, getting all those fresh fruits and vegetables. Which we all know a lot, depending on the variety, fruits and vegetables, especially organic, can be pretty expensive. But let me tell you, when you’re walking down the gluten free snack aisle, {laughs} that’s even more per ounce.

It’s tricky, because a lot of those products are in little bags. And it’s $3 or $4; and you kind of go; “Oh, 3-4 bucks isn’t really that much.” But when you think how many carrots can you get for $3 or $4, it really becomes obvious when you look at things that way. And when you fill your cart with things you actually have a plan for. And you know that you’re going to have enough food, you’re not going to be like; “I need those snacky things!” You’re going to be like; “Oh, I’m going to have leftover of this stew, or whatever I’m making.” So you’re going to be fine.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm.

Mickey Trescott: Another benefit to meal planning is simply that it reduces eating out. Most of us know that eating outside the home; at a restaurant or even a fast food, fast-ish food. There’s even more clean fast food type places. Those places are going to be more expensive every single time the way that we eat on AIP and even with reintros than when compared to cooking and eating your food at home.

So having a plan for home cooked meals is definitely going to reduce how much you eat out. Which can get super expensive. Especially when you think of things like lunches at work, even. Brown-bagging it. I know a lot of people go out to lunch at their work, or near their work. And just simply bringing your own food, while that food, a lot of the cost that went into getting those ingredients, and sourcing them high quality might be higher than what you expect. That savings that you’re getting from actually not going to the restaurant around the corner or something is a big deal.

Angie Alt: Yeah. This is a really big deal. We noticed it a lot recently. A new restaurant opened up near us that’s sort of like a Mediterranean version of Chipotle. And it has some pretty clean options. And with a few reintroductions, I can eat there safely. And we kind of over did it over the Christmas holiday, eating out a few too many times. Going as a family and getting some Mediterranean bowls at this restaurant.

And it was delicious, but it was costing us between $50 and $60 for the whole family every time we went. And it’s like a Chipotle level restaurant. So it should be kind of inexpensive in comparison. But with $50 or $60, I can feed my family full meals for at least two dinners. And those dinners translate into leftovers that feed me and my husband during our work day. And it’s like; oh my gosh, I can’t believe I’m spending this much on one meal.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. That planning is really, really important. And a lot of times, that perceived convenience doesn’t really outweigh some of the other benefits.

Angie Alt: Right. The other thing about meal planning is that if you do it in this really super savvy way, you can use your weekly sales ads. Or pay attention to what’s on sale in the store, and be really strategic and save actually a lot of money.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, is this something that you’ve done in the past, Angie?

Angie Alt: Yes, it is. This is why I brought up this point. Even before I went AIP, when I would meal plan, what I would do was sit down with my local grocery stores weekly sales ad. I would look at the different vegetables and fruits that were going to be on sale that week. And the different meats. And I would plan my meals to incorporate those sale items. And it made a big difference in our grocery budget.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I bet. I, in all honesty, have not gone here. But I see the ads, and actually how I use them is I’ll stock up on bulk things. Because I’m way more of a bulk opportunist. So if I see, for instance, whole chickens on sale at Whole Foods, I will go home with 10 or 15 of them and throw them in the freezer. {laughs}

Angie Alt: Right. That’s another way you can use those sales ads really smartly. If you’ve got the freezer space to do this. Or a larger family that might go through those bulk items. That’s really smart.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, and I’d say, too, for people that maybe don’t have a deep freezer that this strategy of going week by week, and seeing what the store has on sale is actually more useful to you. Maybe you live in an apartment in New York City, and you don’t have a deep freezer. That’s kind of part of why we’re giving you guys all these options, because we realize that everyone’s lives are a lot different. And what’s going to work for you is maybe not going to work for someone else.

Angie Alt: Ok, so a final point about meal planning and how it can save you. It reduced the amount of trips you have to make to the store, which equals fuel savings, which is money. And also time savings, which time is money.

I think this is especially important for folks also who are still really early in their journeys and might be pretty sick. Going to the store multiple times a week stinks if you don’t have the energy for it.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. When I’m not meal planning, I find that we run to the store two or three times a week. And it’s kind of nice going to the store and coming out with only two bags of groceries, I’m not going to lie. But also having to go back and make the list. That takes up a big space in my brain for planning. It’s just so much easier to have it all done. Have all the food planned out. And have actually even though through. Ok, we’re going to make all this in the front of the week; front load it. And then we’re going to have food to eat for the rest of the week with a couple of other ingredients for recipes to make later in the week that are going to save that long. And then we just get it done, and we don’t have to think about it.

For me, the store is actually 35 minutes away. So going to the store for either my husband or I, it’s a pretty big time investment. Just saving those two trips is almost a couple of hours.

Angie Alt: Yeah. For me the store is only like 5 minutes away, but I live in a really populated area. So, it still turns out to be 45 minutes minimum.

Mickey Trescott: Yep, for sure.

2. All about batch cooking [14:59]

Angie Alt: Alright, let’s see. Let’s talk, Mickey about batch cooking. What is batch cooking? Can you tell everybody about it? You’re the maven here, so.

Mickey Trescott: Oh my gosh! Batch cooking is my favorite thing in the world. Sorry guys, I got really excited there. But I love batch cooking. So if you guys are living under a rock and you have not heard me talk about batch cooking yet, I’ll just give you a tiny little taste of what it is.

Basically, you cook a lot of something at once. That might mean that you make one recipe’s worth, and you’re going to save some of it for leftovers. But more often, I make double recipes. And maybe you make two or three different recipes at a time. And you do a little AIP batch cook session. And what that’s going to do, is you’re going to spend two or three hours cooking a few different recipes. Things that are really great for saving in the fridge for leftovers. Saving in the freezer for even later than the next couple of days. And you’re kind of getting ahead so you don’t have to do that work every single day throughout the week.

Batch cooking and mean simply making extra. Maybe making double at dinner, and then having leftovers the next day for breakfast and lunch. It could mean spending 4 or 5 hours on a Sunday, that’s more my interpretation. Just making as much food as I possibly can in one setting. And having that to eat along the rest of the week, or the next two weeks. And sometimes in the case of things like broth maybe the next few weeks.

So batch cooking is just a way to kind of maximize your time in the kitchen and get ahead. It has a billion benefits, which I know we’re going to dive into. Which makes me really excited.

Angie Alt: Right. Batch cooking is basically cook once, eat twice, at least. You know? Usually with most of my batch cooks, it’s more like; cook once, eat four times. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Yeah! And if you get really into it, like I do. And you know, full warning; you don’t have to get fully into it to make this work. But I have a commercial soup pot. I have the biggest Instant Pot. Every pot I have actually can accommodate more than a typical recipe. So I will frequently double and triple recipes. Like when I make AIP chili, I’ll make 24 servings of that, and I’ll freeze them and label them, and that’s my husband and I’s emergency food.

So if he’s going off to work, he’ll just grab one of those frozen meals, take it with him, and put it in the fridge at work. And by the time it’s time for lunch, he just heats that up and eats it. And we do a lot of that, just because, especially recently, our life has become a little bit more on the go with both of us working, in and out of the house, and traveling and stuff.

So, we’re not as available to be working together on cooking our meals. So having that emergency food is really helpful.

Angie Alt: So some of the biggies about batch cooking, and how it helps save money are number one; reducing waste. This is as long as you aren’t a leftover snob. Ok, so you guys I’m going to get really real with everybody here. I know I’m probably going to offend a few of you. But it is a nonsense, first world problem if you will not eat a leftover. Mickey, I’m just having to be real. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: I totally agree. I hear that. There are a lot of things that people say to us that are like; I can’t do AIP because of this. But when people are like; “I can’t do AIP because I don’t like eating leftovers.” I’m always like; I really, really want to send you the eyeroll emoji right now. But I know that would be rude.

Angie Alt: Right! Right. Heavy eyeroll emoji over here, guys. The leftovers, first of all, we’re probably a little too quick to throw out food in the US, based on the idea that it may have gone bad. There are people existing without refrigerators who maintain leftover food around the world. So we’re probably a little too quick on that. And the thing is, the leftovers are saving you time. And they’re saving you money. And they’re delicious. Some foods are actually designed to get more flavorful as they set and kind of marinate. So you’ve got to get over this problem.

Mickey Trescott: Also, I think of batch cooking, too. Something that I do in my batch cooks, is to use up all of the things that are going bad. So if I have a soup or a stew or a chili, or something that I’m making a big pot of something that’s kind of like homogenous. Everything’s mixed in and going to get soft and cooked down. I will definitely throw in something that’s a little bit like, maybe I wouldn’t eat it raw. And it’s a great way to just use up everything in your fridge. It’s kind of like; on its last day. You know?

Angie Alt: For sure. I do that a lot with bone broth. I’ll throw in the last little leftovers of some veggies that are sort of starting to head south.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Keep all of those trimmings and everything. You can totally use in your batch cooks. You can use it to flavor stocks. If you’re going to be drinking broth straight, that kind of thing. So yeah. We’re not leftover snobs over here.

And if you don’t like the flavor of leftovers. Or maybe you’re having a hard time making the same meal palatable over and over. What I would do is actually, in your batch cooking sessions, make some sauces. And then portion them out into really small containers. Maybe like an ice cube tray.

So if you’re like; I’m going to have this leftover chicken today with a curry ice cube. And melt that down and use that to flavor your reheat, or whatever. Or maybe this day I’m going to have a pesto cube. Or whatever. You can hack that. You can hack every problem. It’s not a reason to not do AIP, because you don’t like leftovers. You can definitely, with a little more work, be creative. And also maybe get over it a little bit.

Angie Alt: Right. {laughs} Another benefit of batch cooking is having pre-prepared breakfasts and lunches. Which helps minimize eating out on the way to or at work, or eating convenience snack options. Probably the biggest thing that I batch cook is breakfasts.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Breakfast is that meal where you’re like; I need it to be fast. I need it to be easy. I know that I’m going to have to get up. And I have my whole morning routine that I do that I really don’t want to be spending an hour in the kitchen first thing in the morning. I know I’m going to be doing that later in the day. So I’m with you, Angie.

Batch cooking patties, or soups and stews and stuff like that in order to have everything prepped is definitely the way to go.

Angie Alt: Yep.

Mickey Trescott: Another benefit to batch cooking is just simply that if you batch cook inexpensive meals, it crowds out more expensive options. I was talking about this a little bit earlier. But if I’m trying to save money, what I’ll do is I will meal plan; key. To have some batch cooked options for things like ground beef chili, or meat balls, or a whole roasted chicken instead of a recipe that maybe calls for some expensive prime rib.

You’re not going to batch cook that. You’re going to cook prime rib when your family comes over for Thanksgiving. Or you might do a two-rib prime rib on a special occasion to celebrate with your husband or something. But, you’re not going to be batch cooking that. And it’s a good thing. It’s like $20 a pound, sometimes even more. {laughs} You know.

Angie Alt: Right. Exactly. This is part of what happened to my family and I over the holiday when I was talking about us eating out a little too often. I hadn’t really planned some inexpensive batch cooks, because I was focused on those special holiday meals. But then when they would run out, we would be like; uh-oh. What are we going to do? We ended up spending a little too much doing the convenience stuff. And if we would have had those inexpensive meals put together; the meat balls, some soups. Using ground meats. Things like that, it would have been fine.

You can also finely tune your macros to the veggies. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about that, Mickey.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so obviously protein is the most expensive macronutrient group. And it’s hard to find good organic pasture raised all the things we advocate for. It’s very expensive. So there’s a couple of reasons for not going crazy on protein. One of them being that AIP is not actually a super high protein diet. It’s a big misconception that we need to be eating these giant plates of predominantly whatever protein. First of all, that’s not the best thing for our health. And second of all, that is very expensive.

So something that I’m finding that I’m always trying to do is increase more vegetables. So I’m not necessarily worrying too much about how much carbs I’m eating, or whatever. But I am thinking, when I look at my plate, I want three-quarters of it to be vegetables. This is a big Sarah Ballantyne thing. She’s always advocating for a lot of vegetables. A mix of raw and cooked. A mix of starchy and nonstarchy.

And when you batch cook, you can really buy a big quantity of vegetables. You can batch cook all of them, and prepare them. And when those are ready and available to be eaten; already cooked, already prepped, you’re going to be eating more vegetables. And you’re not going to be eating too much meat. Which is, I think, a problem that a lot of people have. So you can really focus on those veggies just by having them available.

Angie Alt: Right. You also have complete control over the ingredients and quality that you will be consuming over and over. So, an example of this is batch cooking a little bit of pate.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So I know that if I make the point to batch cook pate every other week, I know that’s going to be in my fridge to have as a snack in the afternoons. And I’m setting that intention. I know that I want to be eating that pasture raised, local, cow liver that I know exactly where it came from. I know it has a ton of nutrients. And I’m just prioritizing it. And I know it’s going to be there. We’ll talk more. But that for me is one of the most nutrient dense, and most affordable foods in my routine. So I like to have control, and make it, and have it ready for me.

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: A last benefit of batch cooking is that it saves time. It’s not exactly money. But you can use that time for lots of other things. And sometimes that does translate to money. If you spend, like I do, a few hours on the weekend doing a batch cook during the week, maybe you get more time for self-care. Maybe you get more time to spend with your kids. Maybe you get more time to work. Maybe you get more time to sleep. I don’t know. There isn’t really a downside to having more time.

Angie Alt: No. There really is not. {laughs} It definitely doesn’t end.

3. How Mickey and Angie implement meal planning and batch cooking [26:20]

Mickey Trescott: So we talked a little bit before about our meal planning and batch cooking habits. But I’m actually curious, Angie, if you meal planned or batch cooked before you tried AIP.

Angie Alt: Yeah. I kind of mentioned this earlier. It’s been something that I’ve been doing for a really long time. Part of the reason that I’m so interested and excited in this season talking about budgeting is that I had a part of my life where I was really, really low income. I even had a portion of my life where I was on welfare, single parenting. And meal planning and batch cooking played a really important role in me being able to get through that period. So it was something that was kind of already in my repertoire.

The batch cooking, not as much. I did some batch cooking. But the meal planning, for sure. And after AIP, I was so grateful that I had those skills kind of already on board. About you, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I’d say I’m a little bit on the flip side. I’ve never really been much of a meal planner. But I did batch cook. Back when I was vegan, I figured out when I was working in coffee, and I had to kind of wake up really early in the morning. I knew that I didn’t have a lot of time for breakfast, I was going to have to take food with me. I also didn’t have a large income back then, so I wasn’t able to eat out. So I had to just by necessity have something prepared. So I did a little batch cooking back then.

But I would say it’s definitely a skill, the meal planning, is something that I developed when I was sick and started AIP. And then the batch cooking has kind of grown from there. Angie, how do you integrate meal planning and batch cooking today? And what are you personally working on in this area? Because I know we don’t totally match up with what we practice, here.

Angie Alt: Yeah, we kind of represent different angles here. I definitely do still meal plan. That’s a really ingrained habit for me. It’s a lot looser, probably, than it was in my past. And a lot looser than it was when I first started AIP. I’ve had a lot of reintroductions since then. I’ve had 6 years of cooking almost 365 days a year. So I’m pretty handy at it at this point. And it’s kind of loose.

I usually focus on the protein, and then add in the veggies around that. And the batch cooking, I try to keep it in the routine. Some weeks, I admit I don’t do as well as other weeks. And sometimes it’s a little looser. Maybe I’ll do a little bit on Sundays. And then during the week while I’m cooking dinner, I might kind of do double duty. So while something is roasting, I might chop up all the veggies I need for some meals in the next few days. Or while I’m kind of waiting for something to come to a boil, maybe I’ll take out some meat to thaw for the next morning and put it in the fridge. I’ll kind of prepare ahead a little bit on things. That’s sort of where I’m at.

As far as what I’m working on personally, I’m trying to kind of figure out how to fine tune my grocery budget, and take advantage of grocery delivery services, and see if I can’t use those services in a way that actually saves money over time. Because I think sometimes when you’re in the store, even when you’ve got a good plan in front of you, you might be a little tempted. And I’m wondering if we can take advantages of those services in a new way. And because we live in such a populated area, there are a lot of those services available. How about you, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I am not a huge meal planner down to the breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack type of thing. I did when I was super sick. But now all I meal plan is actually my proteins. So like I said. I have a deep freezer. I’m kind of the opposite of you. I live in a rural area. I don’t have close access to grocery stores. I actually don’t even have close access to grocery stores that sell meat that I want to eat at a price that I can afford. So I do invest in bulk meat.

And what I’ll do is once a week, I’ll go to the freezer. I’ll take stock visually of what I have. And decide on a few main proteins. I’ll grab all of that out from the freezer. So it might be a couple of pounds of ground beef, a filet of salmon, a whole chicken, maybe some pork chops. And then I’ll grab all that out. And then I’ll meal plan around that. But I’ll just plan those proteins, and then I will just buy a lot of vegetables.

Something I’m working on is to maybe plan a couple of big veggie side dishes during the week. Because I’m finding that my way of doing it, like I said before. I end up focusing a little bit too much on the protein. Not really having enough veggies. And so I’m trying to do better there, for sure.

But my batch cook, I’ll usually do a batch cook once or twice a week. Sundays and Wednesdays are usually my day. And I know you guys, if you follow me on Instagram, you can kind of see what I’m up to. But I really go all out. And I try to cook as much food as I can in a four or five hour stretch of time. Yes, it takes up most of my Sunday, and I spend a lot of time doing dishes. And I’m very tired afterwards. But having that food during the week I find is just so helpful for my lifestyle. Especially the way it is right now.

Angie Alt: Yeah. So that’s kind of it you guys. Meal planning and batch cooking; how you can save money with them. Hopefully we convinced you that these are very worthwhile things to do. That was kind of our first half of this episode. And we’re going to be back after the break with a guest who will help us expand these ideas. We’ll be right back.

Angie Alt: A quick word from our title sponsor this season, the Nutritional Therapy Association. You guys, there are so many culinary lifestyle strategies that, when planned proactively, can have a positive impact on healing and overall health. Food sourcing, prepping, and meal planning aren’t easy for beginners, though. And can be especially difficult for those in the midst of their healing journeys.

Our sponsor, the Nutritional Therapy Association, recently launched their fully online course to certify nutritional therapy consultants. And for those of you wondering, I’m an NTC too. Emphasizing a wide range of integrated nutrition and lifestyle strategies to transform health. The new curriculum includes culinary healing modules that empower you with the practical knowledge and skills necessary to source, prep, and plan healing meals. Covering everything from shopping practices, to knife skills, meal prep, and fermentation.

It also trains NTCs to address the wider context of health and healing with lifestyle strategies. Like stress management, movement, the emotional factors, and sleep optimization.

You can learn more about how to become an NTC< and check out the free 7-day nutritional therapy 101 course at www.NutritionalTherapy.com.

4. Guest interview, Alaena Haber: AIP kitchen tools [33:14]

Mickey Trescott: Alright, guys, it’s time for our interview for today. We are chatting with Alaena Haber, occupational therapist and AIP kitchen maven with a dedication towards nourishing and fresh meals in a modern, budget-conscious kitchen. She’s the author of two cookbooks; the Healing Kitchen, which she co-wrote with Sarah Ballantyne, and Enthused, her newest AIP E-book offering. Alaena blogs about her journey with Hashimoto’s and infertility at www.GrazedandEnthused.com, and showcases her cooking techniques and flavor pairings and recipes inspired by the aromatic family style meals common to her Lebanese background.

Thanks so much, Alaena, for joining us from Florida. As you know, we’re just kicking off a very focused podcast season dedicated to helping people make a healing diet and lifestyle fit into their budget. We know this is an area of expertise for you, and we’re excited to pick your brain and get some ideas here.

Alaena Haber: Hi ladies! Thanks for having me.

Angie Alt: We’re so glad you’re here!

Mickey Trescott: So first, we wanted to begin our discussion by talking about setting up our AIP kitchens. So, will you tell us, Alaena, which tools people could pick up that might be an initial investment. But might help them save money long-term?

Alaena Haber: Yeah. That’s a really, really good question. Because a lot of people come into AIP without prior cooking knowledge, or skills in the kitchen. But they’re like; I have a knife and a cutting board. What else do I need?

Actually, first of all, I really recommend getting a really good quality sharp chef’s knife. So somewhere between 8 and 10 inches. And the reason for this is because with AIP, as you guys know, we’re prepping so many vegetables all the time. And if we want to be as eco conscious and budget conscious as we can. We’re not buying those prechopped, precut, or prepackaged.

So, a really good sharp chef’s knife is going to make your prep time so much easier. It’s actually safer to use a sharper knife. So don’t be afraid of a big sharp knife. It’s actually safer for your knife skills and your hands to be using a sharper knife. And that way you’re not going to have to buy a bunch of preprepped stuff. Especially if you don’t have access to that. You maybe shop at a farmer’s market, and you need to learn how to chop something like kabocha squash, or learn how to peel beets. That kind of thing.

So that would be my number one choice for a good prepped kitchen. And what you can do if you don’t have the knife skills that you’re super confident with, you can go on YouTube and there’s world renowned chefs on YouTube that will share their tips and tricks for knife skills. So Jacque Pepin and Curtis Stone, he also has a YouTube channel that he shares his knife skills. So that would be my first tip.

My second one, which I know you guys are going to predict, is the Instant Pot. And I think we all own one, correct?

Angie Alt: Yes.

Mickey Trescott: Oh yeah.

Alaena Haber: Yeah. I’ve said it so many times. People following AIP, with more than one person in their house, get an Instant Pot. The model I have is the ultra. But I would actually go back to the 6-in-1. To be honest, my sister broke hers, so I gave her my 6-in-1. I upgraded to the new ultra, but I don’t even use all those features on it. So yeah, I would recommend the 6-in-1 6 quart to start out with. It’s really affordable. It’s under $100. I use mine multiple, multiple times a week. It’s definitely paid for itself in the past three years. And the one I bought three years ago is still going strong. So they do have longevity to their product, and they have a good warranty. And you can also buy the parts again, if a part breaks. You can buy the individual parts.

So what I do with the Instant Pot is I use it to batch cook a lot of the staples in my house. So bone broths. Shredded and pulled meats and proteins. Instead of having to cook a skillet or a protein every single day, I just batch cook maybe three or four pounds of pastured chicken, or a big nice grass-fed chuck roast that was on sale. So that’s a good way to make use of budget friendly cuts in a budget friendly way, too. Because a lot of times, budget friendly meat is tough. It’s maybe not the tastiest. It’s really lean. So something like a chuck roast or a big pork roast, you can stick in your Instant Pot for an hour and a half, and then you have delicious shredded meat that you can use in multiple ways.

With the Instant Pot, you can also do like coconut yogurt, panna cotta. Big spaghetti squashes. Instead of roasting it you can just stick it in the Instant Pot for 10 minutes and then you have spaghetti squash noodles. Presto, changeo. It’s amazing.

The other tools that I really recommend; and Mickey, I think you’re a Vitamix girl, too, right?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I am. My last Vitamix lasted 9 years. And it was refurbished to start off with.

Alaena Haber: Oh, that’s amazing.

Mickey Trescott: It’s a pretty well-made product.

Alaena Haber: Yeah, it lives longer than a cat. So I use that for really silky smooth soups. Soup bases. For smoothies, of course. Or even just making a big batch of pureed beet or pureed sweet potato. It just makes things so smooth and silky. It’s like a touch of a button. And it’s better than any other blender I’ve used. So that’s why I recommend that one. It’s not super budget friendly. So that’s one I saved up for, for my wedding registry. So if you’re getting married sometime soon, ask your mom for one. Or if you’re having a baby, or something like that. If not, Cuisinart is another good brand that sells blenders.

But the Cuisinart product that I use and love the most is actually their 9-cup food processor with the shredder blade. Because that’s how I make riced vegetables. So I’d make a lot of skillets with riced butternut squash, or carrots, or sweet potatoes. That’s also how I make big batches of guacamole, and sauces, and dressings.

So those four; a good chef’s knife, an Instant Pot, and a good strong blender, and a food processor with a shredder blade are my top four that I use most often in my kitchen.

Mickey Trescott: I have that same Cuisinart, and I love it, Alaena. And another tip for people, if they have maybe RA or something that’s maybe making it harder for them to chop. Having the food processor, maybe prioritizing that. I’m with you. Just whizzing through those veggies, and making those really nice chopped salads and stuff out of that, can make it way easier for people that maybe have some limitations with their joint health in their hands, and stuff.

Alaena Haber: Exactly.

Angie Alt: Right. It’s just such good advice, Alaena. And the Instant Pot, in terms of the bone broth, guys. It’s so totally worth it. Especially in the beginning, if you’re really taking in a lot of bone broth per day, trying to really work on that gut healing. I mean, the days when I was making bone broth the other way; I’ll never go back.

Alaena Haber: And it doesn’t smell. Some people don’t like the smell of bone broth slow cooking on their stove for 48 hours.

Angie Alt: Right.

Alaena Haber: The Instant Pot traps that smell in until you release the vent. And even then, it’s not that bad.

Mickey Trescott: I’ve even heard of people plugging it in outside on a nice day and cooking outside if they’re really sensitive to the smell. There you go.

Alaena Haber: Yep.

Mickey Trescott: Put it in the garage.

Angie Alt: Yep. Yep. Out in the garage.

5. Setting up your AIP kitchen [40:15]

Mickey Trescott: Ok, so Alaena, moving on from the tools. Do you have any tips for setting up your kitchen space, or any hacks there that kind of make it more efficient to use?

Alaena Haber: Right now I have a nice spacious kitchen. We just bought our first home last year, so that was number one criteria. I need a bigger kitchen. Because when we were in Chicago, the second time, my kitchen was like the size of a dresser, essentially. And that’s actually where I did most of the cooking for the Healing Kitchen, if you can imagine that. With a 1960s GE oven that I was surprised was still working. But hey, I guess they make good products. {laughs}

The way I set up my kitchen, just to use space sufficiently, for spices and oils and that kind of thing. I use a lazy Susan. Because I like having easy access to all of my stuff. And it elevates it so it doesn’t take up shelf space, if I need extra shelf space in the pantry. And that way things don’t get lost in the shuffle. They don’t get shoved in the back of the pantry where I can never see them. And then I’m buying three things of coconut oil when I already have three things of coconut oil. So that’s a good way to make everything in your kitchen visible, and also kind of elevate it out of your way.

Another thing I do, is I bought a really affordable bar cart from World Market. And that’s where I keep a lot of my bigger, more bulk items. Like big olive oils. That’s where I keep my Berkey filter. You could keep your Instant Pot on there. Thankfully, I have space for that now, but that’s where I used to keep my Instant Pot, because it’s such a bulky electronic.

And just kind of basic stuff. Keep your drawers really divided for your utensils, so things aren’t all mushed together. Aesthetically, that’s what I need to feel organized in the kitchen. And then I also store things in big glass containers. So I keep all my flours in their bags, but I also put them in glass containers so they’re all even in the pantry, and I know what I have, and I can see through the containers. So those are my best tips.

Right now, I don’t live in a super small space, thankfully. But just kind of coming up with; like the bar cart. Coming up with some more creative ways. Even if you have to put the bar cart in your living room; oh well. The Instant Pot is not that ugly. {laughs} So if that’s what’s on display, it’s not a big deal.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, for sure. Having everything really accessible and clean. And I love your tip of avoiding things getting stuffed at the back of a cabinet. I definitely feel that way. There are some little corners of my kitchen that, when I pull everything out and reorganize it, I find how many things that are actually back there that I don’t use, just because I never see them. That can be spices. It can be tools. It can be in the pantry, whatever. So just kind of brightening that out.

I love the recommendation of putting the flours in a glass container. I hadn’t thought about that. But that’s a great idea, so you can actually get your eye on how much you have, but then you can also stack things and save space that way.

Alaena Haber: Exactly. Yeah.

6. Alaena’s favorite batch cooked AIP recipes [43:10]

Mickey Trescott: Alaena, what are your favorite batch cooking recipes that are also budget friendly?

Alaena Haber: Definitely buying those large cuts of meat that I was talking about, and cooking them in the Instant Pot. But not relegating yourself to plain shredded chicken breast every week. I put a bunch of recipes on my website the last couple of years with Instant Pot meats, shredded meats. And a couple of them you can find on GrazedandEnthused.com are the maple bacon balsamic pulled pork. That one is really popular. Pineapple pulled chicken. My ropa vieja, which uses really affordable cut of grass-fed stew beef. For me that’s easy to find and really affordable. And Caribbean spiced shredded beef.

So, I try to make my Instant Pot recipes really yummy, and pull in some ethnic flavor so you’re not eating the same thing week after week and getting bored and uninspired. But you can also make big soups. So I have a recipe for cilantro chicken chili, and Instant Pot pot roast. So that’s a really great way to use your Instant Pot for four to six meals at a time. Sometimes more, depending on the size of your cut of meat.

And then for veggies, my favorite budget friendly batch cook stuff is to steam; like I buy organic broccoli frozen, because that’s the most affordable way for me to get organic broccoli. And then I steam several bags at a time and keep them in the fridge. And I either season them as the meal comes, or toss them into salad.

And I do the same with steam or roasted carrots. And my daughter loves sweet potato fries. So I will cut up like 3 pounds of; I like the white sweet potatoes. Those are my favorite. And I’ll bake them or roast them at the convection setting of my oven. Which is like a really quick way to do it, and it gets them nice and crispy. And I’ll have sweet potato fries for the whole week. So that’s a nice way to have a source of carbs on hand, so you don’t have to cook something every single day.

And then snack-wise, what we’ve been doing are the cinnamon raisin protein bars from my blog, which uses cinnamon, raisins, a little bit of AIP flour, and collagen peptides. So I can make a double batch of that. Cut it up into little squares for her, and send her off to school with that. Or I can cut them into larger bars for me. And that’s my easy grab and go snack. And you can actually have those out of the fridge, they don’t have to stay in the fridge like a lot of AIP protein bars.

7. Myth busting about an AIP blogger’s pantry [45:37]

Angie Alt: Awesome! These are such good tips, Alaena. You are blowing people’s minds right now.

Can we do a little myth busting about what the AIP bloggers are eating every day? There’s this misconception that just because we know about certain convenience products, and know that they’re great, that they’re the main foundations of our diets and totally consist of them. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Angie Alt: Yeah. So it’s funny, because if somebody was like; what’s in my fridge or pantry, like those Instagram posts. I’m like; oh my god what a beautiful fridge or pantry with all these cool products! You would be shocked at mine. It basically looks pretty empty all the time, because I’m always buying fresh food at the grocery store every couple of days. And it’s not stocked with Power Balls, and Coconut Wraps, and plantain chips like you may believe if you look at someone’s Instagram.

In reality, a lot of AIP bloggers are eating what the AIP community is eating. And even then, I also get a lot of my meal inspiration by seeing what the AIP community non-bloggers are tagging me in on Instagram. Some of my recipes, and seeing what they paired those recipes with.

So the AIP community inspires me all the time to vary my diet, and eat better, and eat more vegetables. All that kind of stuff. Because sometimes that can fall by the wayside with a stay at home mom situation like I’ve got.

So I basically base all my meals on vegetables, and then the protein comes in. So at least two or three of meals a day have leafy greens as the base. Whether that’s a salad or steamed kale. And I always add a little bit of protein. I don’t do well with tons of protein, so I just do three or four ounces at each meal. And that keeps the quantity down, since I buy such high-quality protein. And it keeps the prices down for that reason. And then I just add extra veggies. And that’s the basis of my meals. And they’re delicious. Maybe on the outside they don’t look like crazy, amazing; wow, what a chef inspired meal she created. But they’re nourishing. They taste really good. And they’re easy to prepare. So I think those are the three tenants of a sustainable and nourishing AIP meal plan.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I love that, Alaena. And I’m totally with you on being inspired by different members of the community tagging us. I love it when people pair one of my recipes with another blogger’s recipes, and I’m like; oh wow. I have to make that combo! It looks really good.

But also what you said about the protein; I think that will resonate with a lot of people. Feel like they need to maintain a high protein version of AIP. Which, depending on where you’re at, it might be what’s working for you. I know I ate a lot of protein when I was coming off being vegan. But now, I am exactly like you. I’m eating 3 or 4 ounces of protein, two sometimes three meals a day. Some meals I’m not even eating protein these days. Like for lunch, I’ll have a huge salad with a lot of healthy fats, some avocado. Maybe some bacon crumbles or something.

But for the most part, I’m with you. I’m trying to really increase the vegetables. Because I know that’s how I get the maximum health. What about you, Angie?

Angie Alt: You know, I think what you guys are saying about people tagging us on Instagram is really funny. Because I will tend to kind of get into a little bit of a meal planning rut, and be planning really similar meals over and over. And then people will tag me on Instagram in my own recipes; and I’ll be like, oh yeah! I have that recipe. That’s a good recipe. {laughs} I’ll be like, oh yeah. That’s from my cookbook. Maybe I should try that.

So I definitely get you with that inspiration there. And in terms of what I’m eating, and the snack foods and things I have on hand. I’m not actually using very many of those convenience products. They’re the things I might have when I’m traveling, or something. And I need it to be a little easier, and I don’t really have the time to prepare a bunch of stuff to bring along with me. But in my day to day, my fridge looks like a bunch of vegetables and some meat.

Mickey Trescott: It’s actually pretty boring. The same thing with the pantry. I was actually walking a friend through my kitchen the other day, and she was like; oh, you don’t have a pantry. Because we just have a drawer. Because we have a pretty small kitchen. And I was like; oh, everything’s in this drawer. And I open it up, and there’s space between everything. And she’s like; that’s it? That’s your pantry? She thought Mickey Trescott’s pantry would be like this mythical huge thing. And it’s literally some coconut flour, some cassava flour, a couple of tins of sardines.

Alaena Haber: Oysters.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah! It’s like, that’s it. {laughs} It’s like, ok cool.

8. How cooking changed with a baby [50:15]

Angie Alt: Right. Ok, so Alaena, last question. You’ve been awesome. We know that you have a 1-year-old baby, and she’s like an adorable explosion. You guys, if you have not seen this baby, you need to go follow Alaena on Instagram, because she’s just the cutest thing ever. How did your kitchen set up and cooking routine change once she arrived?

Alaena Haber: Oh yeah, it changed a lot. So before she arrived, I would have time to leisurely just dance to music while cooking dinner for two hours. And my husband and I would sit down with our glass of wine, or whatever. {laughs} I remember mourning that while I was pregnant. I’m like; this is the last time we’re going to be doing this. And it basically was.

So now I’m doing what I’ve been talking about the last 15 minutes or so. I do a lot of batch cook. That is the key to my success right now. Because if I’m not batch cooking, that’s when I’m reaching for those AIP convenience foods. Or eating a spoonful of coconut oil for lunch and being like; that’s it. We’re good. Gotta run.

So instead of doing that, because that’s not really the best thing for myself. I rely a little bit more on things like modern conveniences, like bagged cauliflower rice so I don’t have to deal with the cauliflower confetti explosion that will soon erupt in my kitchen. Like I said, the frozen organic broccoli. A lot of the times, frozen vegetables, especially organic, they have even more nutrients than fresh produce. Especially if that fresh produce has been sitting on a truck for a while. So that’s another great way. Because everything’s already prepped and chopped for you in that organic bag of broccoli. You can just steam it, like I said.

And something else I’ve been leaning on as a crutch, but a very delicious crutch. The Primal Palate spice blends. So they have an AIP three-pack with garlic and herb, breakfast blend, and super Gyro. And these spice lines are so delicious. I don’t know if you guys have tried them.

Angie Alt: Yes, they’re good.

Alaena Haber: So good! You can put them on grilled meat, or roasted meat, or anything from the Instant Pot. All your vegetables. And you don’t have to think about it. You don’t have to run to the store and grab a bunch of spices, because that can be super expensive. And they have salt in them, so you don’t even have to reach for your sea salt. Because they use the highest quality, Himalayan pink salt. So that’s something that has been really key to getting a lot of flavor into my food without a lot of effort.

And then the only other thing that’s changed a little bit is there have been a few times where I’ll grab some food from Paleo on the Go. When I have a big life change; for example when we moved to Florida from Texas the first week, I didn’t want to put my diet to the side completely. So I had Paleo on the Go deliver me my meals for that week so I could get settled into my house. And that was really amazing. They have a big AIP menu. I’ve toured their factory, they’re really great people there. So that’s something I do rely on a few times a year. Because sometimes we all just encounter really stressful situations where we can’t imagine cooking for ourselves and our family. So I like to have that on the back burner, for sure.

And then, something else I do now. Because in Florida, I can’t get the same quality meat as I was getting in Austin, Texas. So I’ve been relying a little bit more on ordering my meat. So US Wellness Meats and Butcher Box. And that way; I have a really busy kid at home. I don’t have to run to the grocery store multiple times a week to find really great prices on really high-quality meat. Because that’s really hard for me to find.

And I also get my seafood from Vital Choice. So not everyone is going to be able to afford those meat options. But that’s kind of where I’m at. Just so I can get the highest quality stuff I can get and it’s in my freezer. And I don’t have to think about it or run to the store last minute.

Angie Alt: Awesome.

Mickey Trescott: Love it.

Angie Alt: Alaena, will you let our listeners know what you are up to in your work currently? And where they can find you online?

Alaena Haber: Yes. So, you can fine me at GrazedandEnthused.com. That’s my website blog. A bunch of recipes on there for the AIP community. And then you can follow me on Instagram @GrazedandEnthused. I’m really active on Instagram; well, more so on Instagram stories. I prefer that a little bit more. It’s a good way for me to privately connect with people in the AIP community and answer your questions or provide you support in a nonpublic way.

And I’m thankfully not working on an eBook right now, because I just put out Enthused. And it was a lot of work. I put a lot of heart into it. So you can find that on my website. It’s $12.95. It contains over 80 brand new AIP recipes with a lot of ethnic diversity, which is really important for me. So that’s what I’ve been up to.

Angie Alt: That’s awesome. You guys definitely go check out her Instagram. The stories; she’s like a professional newscaster exclusively for the AIP community. It’s amazing. And the baby. I would go just to look at the baby. She’s so cute.

Alaena Haber: I agree.

Angie Alt: Thanks again, Alaena, for having a conversation with us today. You guys, we’ll be back next week. Take care everyone.

Alaena Haber: Thank you!

Mickey Trescott: Bye!

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

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The post S3 E2 – Meal Planning + Batch Cooking w/ Alaena Haber appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 3: Real Food on a Budget. We’re dedicating this season to discussing an aspect of natural healing that often gets left out of the conversation: affordability. We’ll be chatting with experts and peers from the AIP community about how to best balance money with your health priorities.

This season is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association (NTA), a holistic nutrition school that trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition. Learn more about them by visiting NutritionalTherapy.com, or read about our experiences going through their NTP and NTC programs in our comparison article.

Season 3 Episode 1 features an interview with our friend and role model, Dr. Terry Wahls, who is a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Iowa. Dr. Wahls successfully recovered from multiple sclerosis using diet and lifestyle strategies, and currently studies the interplay between diet, lifestyle, functional medicine, and autoimmune disease.

As a medical doctor, Terry has a lot to share in regards to the high cost of medical testing, lower cost approaches, and whether a “real food” approach is elitist. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a resource for those seeking to live well with chronic illness. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’m the author of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt. I’m a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I’m the author of The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, and I’m using diet and lifestyle to best manage my endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease.

After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.AutoimmuneWellness.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

We also wrote a book called The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook together that serves as a do-it-yourself guidebook to living well with chronic illness.

Mickey Trescott: If you’re looking for more information about the autoimmune protocol, make sure to sign up for our newsletter at autoimmunewellness.com, so we can send you our free quick start guide. It contains printable AIP food lists, a 2-week food plan, a 90-minute batch cooking video, a mindset video, and food reintroduction guides.

This season of the podcast, real food on a budget is brought to you by our title sponsor, The Nutritional Therapy Association.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Welcome back to season 3 [1:40]
2. A little bit about the upcoming season [8:49]
3. Conversation with Dr. Wahls about food on a budget [15:06]

1. Welcome back to season 3 [1:40]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everyone! Mickey here. Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We are in our third season. How are you doing today, Angie?

Angie Alt: I’m good. I’m kind of in shock that we have been doing this for three seasons now.

Mickey Trescott: I know. It’s been a lot of fun putting everything together. And I think we would go through these long breaks where we’re like; we’d forget about the podcast. We’re like; yeah, we don’t have a podcast. And then we’d start thinking about doing it again, and we’re like; oh yeah, that’s a lot of work.

Angie Alt: Oh yeah, I do a podcast.

Mickey Trescott: We’ve been getting fired up, and we’re really excited to introduce our topic for this season. It’s one that we have been thinking about for probably years now, huh Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah, we’ve been talking about this a long time.

Mickey Trescott: We’ve been talking about it for a while. And it is Real Food on a Budget. {dun-dun-dun!} We really want to dig in how to make nutrient dense, healing foods accessible for everyone. So Angie, you want to talk a little bit about how we came up with this topic?

Angie Alt: Yeah. I mean, we’ve long been hearing kind of the rumblings from the autoimmune community, the AIP community, that finding a way to make these dietary changes affordable is this big barrier to adopting the protocol over the long term. And those rumblings were pretty much confirmed at the beginning of this year when we ran our giant reader survey. Seriously; thank you to everyone who participated and gave us your feedback. That was very valuable to us.

But no big surprise; you guys pinpointed affordability and accessibility to high quality, healing foods as one of your biggest challenges. So we kind of knew that that was something that was out there all along.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. And some of the specific challenges that we’ve both personally been through at different points in our journey, and things we’ve heard from you guys in comments on the blog and in social media, and in the survey, are things like people that can’t get started just because they literally can’t afford it. They don’t have the current budget for it. Right?

Angie Alt: Right. I mean, it’s hard. It’s a big budgetary move. We definitely felt that in the beginning of our journeys when we kind of shifted our families’ budgets to focus on that. My husband and I sit down and do kind of a big overview of our spending at the beginning of every year from the previous year, and we saw it again this year. Whoa; that food budget. It’s a biggie. It’s hard to adjust all those other areas of your life to focus on that priority.

We also hear a lot about people not being able to find high quality food in their area.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, not being able to afford them, so people don’t have access to a quality grocery store that sells high quality food. Or, if they do, maybe those foods are exorbitantly expensive. Because as we’ve seen a rise in organic and grass-fed and even the convenience foods that weren’t around when we started AIP; a lot of these things now are infiltrating into maybe even more rural and more food desert-y areas. But the price tag goes way up because those retailers know that they have something nobody else does, and they want their customers to pay for it. So that’s really frustrating.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Another area is people saying that affording the high-quality food and the medical care that they might need at the same time together is a challenge.

Mickey Trescott: This is a huge one.

Angie Alt: Yeah, it is. It really is. It’s a hard one to get around, right? You just have to kind of believe that focusing on diet and lifestyle is eventually going to help you bring those medical care costs down. I’ve definitely seen that over the long-term for myself. But in the beginning, it’s really tough to walk that line.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. If some people are going through some really important medical procedures or medical treatments or seeing certain doctors that they really need to see, they literally might not be able to start with the food to the extent. We have some ideas for you guys later, but they might not be able to do it at the current time.

Another issue that people have is that, maybe they try AIP for a short period of time. Which is what we advocate. You guys know at this point, AIP is not forever. But maybe they experience some success in the very beginning, but then they find it too expensive to maintain. Right Angie?

Angie Alt: Yep. I see this a lot. I get a special view of this because of my group programs. I see people at the very beginning giving this a big shot and really dedicating a lot of their financial resources to it. And then maybe the financial resources kind of burn out at some point, and they go; how do I maintain this? I’m not quite there where I need to be, in terms of my healing, but I don’t know if I can stretch my budget further. So we’re going to dive into that some, too, over the next few episodes.

What about a really tough on, Mickey. Integrating a healing diet while needing to be on social welfare programs, like food stamps. That can be really challenging, because there are limitations on what you can buy with some of those programs.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. This is something that we haven’t had an onslaught of people writing to us. But through the years, I have had some especially thoughtful blog comments and emails from people that say; this is my issue. I’m on this government program. I have a fixed income, and I really want to try AIP. How can I make it work for me?

We’ve got some ideas for you guys. We’re actually going to be interviewing a social worker later on in this podcast series. And hopefully give you guys some ideas about prioritizing. Because that’s actually something that I don’t think anyone in our community has started talking about yet.

Angie Alt: No, and we’re excited to talk. I have a lot of personal feeling about this, and I’m really excited to help figure out ways to make this successful for everybody. Even those on the lowest incomes.

Ok. And finally, another big one. Confusion about how to make smart compromises in food quality or budget priority. I think it feels like there’s only one way to do AIP, and I need to go buy everything at Whole Foods. And people aren’t quite sure about doing that.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. If people don’t know that this is a struggle for them, it will become apparent. There may be a misconception for a lot of you guys that you need to be drinking a $5 bottle of kombucha every day. Or buying that organic grass-fed meat at Whole Foods, or whatever. And not really understanding how to make those compromises to kind of sustain this long-term. So hopefully we’re going to clear some of that up for you guys.

There may be some other things that you guys are feeling. Hopefully in 8 episodes dedicated completely to this, we’ll cover it for you guys. So, Angie, you want to dive into why this topic is personally important to us?

2. A little bit about the upcoming season [8:49]

Angie Alt: Yeah. You know, we wanted you guys to understand that this isn’t just motivated by what we’ve learned from all of you and what the community has been asking for. Mickey and I are not independently wealthy, either. And we recognize that the process of shifting your budget to focus on high quality foods that fuel healing is by no means an easy undertaking. When we first began AIP ourselves, it was difficult to figure out where the money to eat like this was going to come from, or how to source the best foods at the lowest prices.

Not only that, but we have personal experience living very low income. Mickey lived paycheck to paycheck when she was first diagnosed. And when I first got ill, I was a single parent, and I was on welfare at that time. I was working a job, and going to school, and needing some additional support. And it was really tough. Those experiences left really powerful impressions on us, and they played a really big role in our efforts to address this issue with this podcast season.

We don’t believe that healing food only belongs to the rich. And we want to figure out ways to make this successful for everybody. So what can they expect this podcast series, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: First, we’re going to do an episode on every facet of food sourcing and kind of break that down for you guys. All your options. Everything from purchasing meat and fat to vegetables and pantry items. There are so many options. There’s just this huge spectrum of everything from going to the farmer’s market, to buying things online, to buying clubs that we’re really going to dive in and give you guys some really creative ideas. I’m sure a lot of them you’ve never even heard or considered before. That might help you guys solve some problems.

Some of these things are going to be great ah-ha moments for some of you. And some of them might not be applicable. But our hope is that there is going to be something here for everybody.

We’ll also be talking about some tricks that help you stretch your food budget. So things like meal planning and batch cooking, and minimizing waste. So, you guys are probably sick of hearing us talk about meal planning and batch cooking. But there are more benefits to it than just saving you some time. And it’s not just about what you buy and where. So how you’re using these ingredients. How you’re stretching them. Especially that waste piece, we haven’t talked about a lot in our community. But just to maximize that, and get the most value and healing out of it.

And then we’ll also be addressing how to create and prioritize your food budget. As well as have a conversation like Angie said about even those on the lowest incomes. So things like food stamps, WIC, using food pantries, and some creative ways that if that’s you, how you can still make healing changes in your diet. There are definitely options for you.

Along the way, we’ll be interviewing some people who have a specific expertise on the topic of the episode, which will help us go much deeper than our own experiences, into the range of options. And we’re going to be learning along with you guys. There are some areas that I feel like Angie and I are very strong in, and then there are some areas where especially we’re bringing in a few experts that we have some great questions for them, and I think we personally stand to learn a lot from them. So we’re excited about that.

And then lastly, we will be interviewing members of our AIP community to share their number one money saving tip, and how they’ve hacked eating this way over the long-term. So this way, we can get a broader perspective of what’s working for a variety of people living in different areas on different budgets. For instance, someone living in San Francisco. They might have a different tip on what saves them money than someone living in rural Oklahoma. Sourcing might vary really widely from New York City to St. Louis.

So, the good news is that we know people hacking AIP literally all over the world. So wherever you find yourself, know that there are options for you. It might take a little thinking outside the box. And through sharing some of these experiences of our community, we can really hone in on kind of taking stock of that landscape and seeing what’s out there.

Angie Alt: This is going to be a good season, guys. That’s it for our first half of this episode. We’ll be back after the break with a guest who will help us take stock of exactly what we are up against in tackling this problem. We’ll be right back.

Angie Alt: We wanted to introduce you guys to our title sponsor this season of the podcast, The Nutritional Therapy Association. The NTA is a holistic nutrition school that reconnects people to healing foods and vibrant health. They provide practical and affordable nutrition education through their courses, empowering individuals to launch new careers, and heal themselves, their communities, and the world.

The NTA trains and certified nutritional therapy practitioners and consultants with an emphasis on bioindividual nutrition.

Mickey Trescott: I personally discovered the NTP program in 2012 when I was in the middle of my own healing journey with AIP. I was actually sitting on my kitchen counter, looking at the local community college class list that I got in the mail, and I saw the program. When I looked it up online, and found that it was based on real food and ancestral perspectives, I knew that it would be a perfect fit to my personal chef work, and a major piece to shifting my career. And while I was going through the program, I actually wrote the first iteration of the Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook as my community project. And the rest is history.

Angie Alt: After becoming a certified health coach in 2014, I was excited but knew that I wanted to dive much, much deeper into nutrition. And Mickey, obviously, had glowing things to say about NTA. After I looked over the program offerings, I knew that the NTC course was perfect for me as a virtual coach. It ended up being one of the most intense learning experiences of my life. It was absolutely bursting with ah-ha moments as I made the connections. Not only for my existing clients, but for myself and the autoimmune path I had been walking.

Mickey Trescott: You guys can learn more about The Nutritional Therapy Association as well as their programs, events, and resources at www.NutritionalTherapy.com. While you’re there, make sure to check out their free 7-day nutritional therapy 101 course.

3. Conversation with Dr. Wahls about food on a budget [15:06]

Angie Alt: Onto our interview! Today we are speaking with Dr. Terry Wahls, who is a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Iowa. She is also a clinical researcher, and has published over 60 peer reviewed abstracts, posters, and papers. And has most recently been delving into studying the interplay between diet, lifestyle, functional medicine, and autoimmune disease with patients with multiple sclerosis. A disease she has successfully recovered from using those tools herself.

Seriously, you guys, if you have not seen her TED Talk, go do it already. You’re living under a rock if you haven’t seen it. We really can’t emphasize enough how much we respect and admire Dr. Wahls’ work. Thank you, Terry, for joining us today from Iowa. As you know, we are just kicking off our very focused podcast season dedicated to helping folks make a healing diet and lifestyle fit into their budget. We know this is an area of expertise for you, so we’re excited to pick your brain and get an assessment of exactly what our movement is up against here.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Great. Very glad to be here.

Mickey Trescott: So Terry; We are facing both exorbitant costs in our medical system, which you know really well as a doctor, as well as the artificially deflated cost for low-quality food. I think that’s something not a lot of people are talking about.

As a doctor that works within this system, and is passionate about helping people from all walks of life get better with dietary and lifestyle changes, what’s your take on the struggle here and kind of where we’re at?

Dr. Terry Wahls: You know, a lot of people get introduced to functional medicine really get taught how to use some very high cost testing, and supplements, that can be very helpful. And unfortunately, they’re not as familiar with just how much can be done without testing. Without these high cost supplements. That is the advantage that I had by working in the VA. I had to live within the constraints of the VA. So I learned a great deal.

Mickey Trescott: Can you tell us some of those experiences? And for people that don’t know exactly what that entailed. Because I’ve seen you speak at conferences, and talk about some of these cases, working with the VA. What does that mean that maybe you weren’t able to run some testing and stuff?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Well, when the VA agreed to let me begin doing functional medicine, I had been doing functional medicine with no testing, just as part of my traumatic brain injury clinic. I would talk about diet and lifestyle as part of a 20-minute appointment I got twice a year with these folks. And even with that very limited time constraint, I made handouts I could give to people. We were able to achieve great engagement. And for many folks who were willing to go with me on the diet and lifestyle journey, we had terrific success.

And then based on that success, the VA chief of medicine came back and asked me to create a functional medicine clinic. And in those conversations back and forth, we agreed that I could have group visits. I would be able to take no additional functional medicine testing. I could just do basic primary care labs. And no fancy supplements. I could order B vitamins and fish oil, vitamin C. And that was it.

Even with those constraints, we had phenomenal success. And my tools were really very simple; diet and lifestyle. Cooking classes. We talked about gardening, hunting, fishing. And teaching people how to cook at home.

Angie Alt: That’s so awesome. I love that you just tapped into what they had available. Even hunting, fishing, growing their own food. That’s such a smart way to tap into what their skillset already was to address those needs.

What kind of recommendations were you making? And what results did you see working with people in that way?

Dr. Terry Wahls: The first thing we did, we had to create demand and interest. So we’d have large classes. People could get referred to my initial group class where we told my story in the principles of functional medicine. We talked about epigenetics, microbiome, ecosystem medicine. And then said; if you want to work with us, and come to the more intensive classes, you have to sign up to be willing to do gluten free, dairy free, lots of vegetables. And we’ll refine it further from there.

If you can commit to doing that, then they could come work with me. Then they would come in after that initial class. I’d say about a third of the folks would say; no, that’s too hard. And two-thirds would sign-up to come to these group classes. In those group classes, we’d have a more intensive instruction about functional medicine. Why it works, why the microbiome is so important, why diet is so important.

Then we’d have a big cooking class, where we’d help them understand a new relationship with food. We’d make cooked greens and a green smoothie, so they could understand that this food is easy. It’s fast. And it can be delicious.

After that, have classes once a month that would focus on some aspect of diet, or movement, or stress reduction, or life purpose. And then we’d have monthly group classes where they could come with a group that talked about their strengths, their challenges, and get coaching from everyone else in the group.

Mickey Trescott: Terry, that sounds like a really comprehensive and incredible program that these folks had access to. It’s really, really amazing what you’ve thought of. I want to ask; you mentioned cooking instruction, which I know is a really big barrier for a lot of people. What’s your assessment on; some of these probably had no idea what they were getting into when they had their 20-minute appointment with you. And you’re recommending all of these changes; biggest, probably, their diet. Many of them, I’m sure were just eating a Standard American Diet. How did you see that teaching people how to cook that maybe had never cooked before, and how people got over that obstacle?

Dr. Terry Wahls: So the first couple of years I did this, I didn’t get to have my group classes or cooking classes yet. When I first started, it was just education that I could do in a 20-minute appointment and give them a handout. So, I was introducing the concepts. We had a lovely handout with some information. And some books that we recommended.

I couldn’t get everyone fired up, but we had remarkable success. I’d say about a quarter of the folks really began making big changes that would grow over time. With traumatic brain injury, getting anyone to improve instead of steadily decline was noteworthy. And because of that success, then that led to creating the therapeutic lifestyle clinic, where we could create these ongoing programs.

I’m still struck that that 20-minute conversation with folks that were having traumatic brain injury; PTSD, losing their jobs, losing their families. Saying; you’ve been struggling for years with this problem. Would you give it a month of gluten free, lots of vegetables, and see what happens?

Mickey Trescott: Terry, do you remember any particular cases to you that stand out?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Oh yeah.

Mickey Trescott: That you could give us a little snapshot of maybe what this person’s life was like, and what they were staring down.

Dr. Terry Wahls: So here’s a gentleman who had multiple traumatic brain injuries, blast exposures during the war. Exposed to burn pits. He had a terrible case of bloody diarrhea. He kept coming back. He was treated with antibiotics, and then treated for inflammatory bowel disease. And med boarded out. He put on 100 pounds, in spite of his inflammatory bowel disease. And was back stateside. His marriage was failing. He had tried going to school. Was flunking out of school. Saw me.

I said; look. I think you’ve got undiagnosed gluten sensitivity. And I think that there’s probably a toxic body burden. So I pitched gluten free, cooked vegetables, soups and stews, grain free. In 20 minutes. He came back; flunked out of school. He was now divorced. I talked with him again. Gave him another pitch for gluten free, cooked vegetables, grain free. The next time I saw him, over a year later, he in fact had implemented that diet. And he’s begun to lose weight.

And then I see him 6 months after that; he’s now finally 100% grain free. 100% on the diet. He’s lost 50 pounds. His energy is improving. I see him 6 months later; he’s in school and he is now absolutely 100% on the diet. Continuing to lose weight, and his grades are doing well. He has since completed his degree in graphic design. He has a small business. Remarried and thriving.

Mickey Trescott: That’s incredible.

Dr. Terry Wahls: So the first time I said all this to him, he sort of thought about it. He sort of tried it intermittently. He didn’t really buy into it. It was the second visit that he bought into it. It wasn’t until the third visit that he actually started doing it 100%. But even when he wasn’t doing it 100%, he could tell that things were beginning to improve.

Angie Alt: That’s awesome. Terry, I heard you mentioning a lot about the different kinds of group work that you did with people. Do you think that group programs are a smart way for us to save money in health care?

Dr. Terry Wahls: I think change; behavior change is difficult to sustain. It’s much easier with peer support, peer education. So I think groups can be very, very effective. In many ways, more effective than individual appointments. I think physicians, we do a good job of helping people understand why to do something. Why a mechanism or intervention works. To help get curious. Get excited. But then, to sustain, to grow the internal motivation, that’s best done with a health coach or a nutrition professional who has been really trained on motivational interviewing. Group support to sustain this relationship over a year. At least 6 months, but preferably a year. And then to give these people a way to create community, that can be sustained away from the health coach and the clinical practice.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, you’re speaking straight to our hearts, Terry.

Dr. Terry Wahls: I certainly see that the public demanded interest in health coach and nutritional professional who understand behavior change, internal motivation, group dynamics, growing. I certainly see the demand for that in functional medicine practices growing. Even here at the university and conventional primary care practices. I see great awareness of motivational interviewing. Of group behavior. Of heath behavior changes. So even my conventional medicine primary care specialty care clinics here at the university are beginning to talk about health coaches, health behaviors, motivational interviewing. And I’m cheering them on, of course.

Mickey Trescott: And ultimately, Terry, I mean this is going to help reduce the cost burden on our system. Because if people are asking a doctor to hold their hand for implementation; like you were saying, the challenge you were having at the VA. It was really up to your patients to kind of take it on themselves, especially in the early days, to kind of figure out how to make those changes.

Now, if we have this army of health coaches educated at a much lower cost than an MD, ready and willing at a much lower rate per hour to work with people and help them figure out these seemingly simple problems, like what do I eat for breakfast. Or what do I bring to lunch. That’s going to save the whole system money in the long run.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Oh, absolutely. And many more of my academic internal medicine colleagues are understanding that health behaviors are what we have to address if we’re going to control diabetes, or high blood pressure, or mental health issues. They don’t necessarily understand that yet for autoimmune issues in general. But many more specialists are getting that health behaviors are where health happens, as opposed to the drugs.

Mickey Trescott: Totally agree. So Terry, here’s a big can of worms. Do you feel that what all of us collectively are advocating for in terms of dietary healing is elitist? And if so, how can we change this and make it more accessible for everyone?

Dr. Terry Wahls: It’s not elitist at all. That’s just a bunch of hogwash. That is just a bunch of elitist hogwash. You don’t need to have fancy testing to tell people they need to eat more vegetables. Try 100 days of a grain free diet and see what happens.

People are figuring this out. That’s why there’s so much information on the internet. That’s why all the YouTube channels are successful. That’s why these self-help books are successful.

Now, there certainly are people who have resources who are happy to buy my time to come do a concierge practice with me. Which I love, because then I can provide information on social media through my staff to the public. So yes, there will always be people who have money that are willing to buy more intensive support. And there’s a lot of free support available through social media. And there are low level programs available through group classes. Through health coaches.

And so, there’s a huge spectrum of support that people can access. They can access stuff that’s free. They can access stuff that you pay progressively more, according to the resources that you have available. But that’s what our society has done forever, from the beginning. There’s information that’s freely available, but if you have money you can buy more support if you want.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Well, Terry, Angie and I are both here and able to do what we do, because of your TED Talk. Honestly, that was one of the things that was a tipping point for me being able to get motivated to make the dietary and lifestyle changes that I did. And what we do, a lot of it is just getting the word out to everyone without a pay wall or anything. To just help people. Like this podcast. Figure out what they can do better. So we’re definitely in agreement there.

But we are aware that a lot of people say; I can’t afford this. Or this is just for rich people. And I think some of that barrier is a little bit of perception. Yes, some people are on very low incomes, and have to be very creative. And that’s part of what we’re trying to do here, is give them some options and some different ways of thinking things. But you know; you’ve worked with some of the poorest people through the VA, and you’ve seen the types of changes they’ve been able to make and the benefits they’ve gotten in their life from doing that work. And it can be really powerful.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Absolutely. The people I took care of for years were food stamps. On disability. They had no money. They were doing this based on their gardening, their hunting, their fishing. They would go to the farmer’s market. And brilliant ideas. They would walk around the farmer’s market and ask people at the end, what’s the best price you can give me if I take everything that’s left. And they could figure out how to get a trunkful of food. Sometimes it was organic, sometimes it wasn’t. For pennies on the dollar. And many communities here in the Midwest have too much deer. So you could go to the local meat lockers and get venison for free.

When people say it’s too expensive, it’s elitist; often I see that as an excuse. “I don’t want to have to take responsibility for making any effort. I want to continue to say it’s not my problem, because I don’t have all that money to get those expensive supplements and to get those tests.” They don’t need the supplements. They don’t need the tests. But they do need to eat vegetables.

They do need to learn to cook at home. And you can have very inexpensive vegetables. And you can grow food. You can go to city lots; empty city lots. You can go to the farmer’s market and say; what is the best price I could get at the end of the farmer’s market for everything you’ve got left?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. There are lots of creative ideas. Hopefully we’ll be exploring a lot more of them in this podcast series for people listening. But I love getting your perspective on that, Terry. Because we totally agree.

Angie Alt: Every time Terry talks, I feel like saying hallelujah.

Dr. Terry Wahls: It is such a miracle to have my life back. And when people tell me they feel hopeless, I feel sad for them, but the first thing to understand that as long as we’re alive, life is a series of self-correcting biochemical reactions. The more we can help our bodies have what’s needed and remove the things that are harmful. And all that begins with food. Getting rid of the sugar, getting rid of the processed food. And cooking at home is the first step.

Angie Alt: Yep. Solving our healthcare crisis starts in our kitchens, everybody. You heard it from Dr. Wahls. Terry, will you let our listeners know what you’re up to in your work currently, and where they can find you online?

Dr. Terry Wahls: So find me at TerryWahls.com. I’m on Facebook, Terry Wahls, MD. Instagram, Dr. Terry Wahls. Twitter, Terry Wahls. I have a seminar in August where we go over all of these concepts. We have a health professional workshop, and certified health professionals. So you can learn more about that at TerryWahls.com. I’m working on a study comparing the Swank Diet and the Wahls Diet. We’ll do that for another two years. And this month we’re submitting a full grant proposal comparing the Wahls diet as a safety and feasibility in the setting of ALS, or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. SO that’s a very exciting step.

Angie Alt: Yeah, wow. That’s really exciting. Thanks for giving us that update.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Oh, and I’m going to Australia in April. We’ll be doing a bunch of events in Australia, as well.

Mickey Trescott: Cool. Maybe if people listening in, any of our Australia folks, you guys check in with Terry and see if she’s coming to a location near you, because that would be fun to catch her.

Dr. Terry Wahls: The link for that is DrTerryWahlslive.com.

Mickey Trescott: Cool.

Dr. Terry Wahls: I’ll send those links to you guys so you’ll have all of that.

Mickey Trescott: Great. Yeah, we’ll put everything in the show notes. Thank you so much, again, Terry for agreeing to have this conversation with us. I know we’re talking about a little more the finer details of making this stuff work. But I think people are going to be really grateful to just hear our discussion about this. For all you guys listening in, we’ll be back next week. We hope you guys are enjoying the beginning to this podcast series. And we’ll see you guys all soon. Take care everyone.

Angie Alt: Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re honored to have you as a listener, and we hope that you’ve gained some useful information.

Mickey Trescott: Did you know that we have dozens of informative articles about living well with autoimmune disease, and over 250 elimination phase compliant recipes on our website, updated multiple times per week? Make sure to click on over to AutoimmuneWellness.com. Follow us on social media. And sign up for our newsletter to find out about all of this new content.

We’re either at Autoimmune Paleo, or at Autoimmune Wellness on any of these channels. You can sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of any page on our website. Don’t forget to connect with the AIP community by using the hashtag #AutoimmuneWellness.

Angie Alt: If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave us a review in iTunes, as this helps others find us. See you next time!

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

For the full podcast archive, click here.

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The AIP community has changed… a lot! Since our humble beginnings in approximately 2011, our movement has grown exponentially. This growth has been overwhelmingly positive, but there have been some downsides to it as well. Considering all the growth and change, we’ve decided to start 2018 with a “State of AIP Address” here at Autoimmune Wellness.

We’d like to have a discussion about the roots of AIP, where we are at now, and where we think things are heading. Most importantly, with that longview in mind, we want you, our community, to help us focus our energy.

We believe in the concept of servant leadership and want to find out how we can continue to strengthen and refine the AIP movement from your perspectives. We are poised to see AIP move into the mainstream and we want to make sure it arrives there with your needs out front.

Before we begin…

This is a long post! If you’d rather listen to the content in podcast form, you can do so below. But don’t forget to fill out our survey when you’re done.

First, a brief history of the AIP movement (2011-2016):

2011

• The earliest threads of AIP began to take form in 2011 when some early-adopters (us!) were introduced to the idea of eating an autoimmune-specific elimination diet through the work of Robb Wolf, Chris Kresser, Loren Cordain, and Datis Kharrazian.

2012

• In 2012, Sarah Ballantyne started blogging about her experience with Paleo and began to research and refine the elimination diet, providing the first comprehensive guidance on elimination and reintroduction of foods.
• Later in 2012, a few early-adopters started blogging about their personal experiences on the elimination diet and connected to form the beginnings of the AIP community. The first year or so, there were six of us: Mickey (Autoimmune Paleo), Angie (Alt-Ternative Autoimmune), Eileen (Phoenix Helix), Sarah (The Paleo Mom), Whitney (Nutrisclerosis), and Christina (A Clean Plate). At the time we were all very much in the middle of our healing journeys with diverse autoimmune diseases, but we connected on the idea that diet was key.

2013

• 2013 was a time of grassroots growth for AIP. In April, Mickey released the first ebook about AIP, The Autoimmune Paleo E-Cookbook. This was the year Sarah Ballantyne was heavily researching the protocol and publishing more in-depth articles about the “why’s,” nutrient density, and reintroductions. It was also the year that we started to consider the lifestyle piece in managing our conditions. Our group was still small, but this year another dozen or so bloggers started sharing their stories and recipes with the burgeoning community.

2014

• 2014 was the breakout year for AIP. In January, Sarah Ballantyne’s complete guide to AIP was released, The Paleo Approach, and went on to become a New York Times Bestseller later that summer. In March, the print version of The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook came out. And later on in the year we got The Paleo Approach Cookbook, a second offering from Sarah Ballantyne, and Angie Alt’s The Alternative Autoimmune Cookbook, along with a few other fantastic AIP ebooks. SAD to AIP in SIX had its first enrollment guiding 25 members through a phased transition to AIP. In these early days, the community was looking for recipes and support, and the offerings this year definitely answered that call! At the end of 2014, the very first AIP restaurant, Mission: Heirloom opened its doors in Berkeley, California, and the first AIP podcast, The Phoenix Helix Podcast joined the airwaves!

2015

• January 2015, Angie and Mickey announced that they would be joining forces and blogging together, along with community voices, at autoimmune-paleo.com. At this point, the community had grown to tens of thousands of people, as evidenced by the movement’s exponential growth, engagement, and connection on our site and across all social media platforms (especially Instagram!). The movement was now large enough to support big in-person gatherings, with many meetup groups springing up, authors holding book tours, classes being given, and speaking at conferences about the protocol. This was the year that we started overhearing folks in the grocery store talking about AIP, and we had a large enough base of people who had experience with the protocol to start featuring success stories other than our own on our site. By the end of 2015, there were over 15 books and programs for people following AIP!

2016

• 2016 AIP started infiltrating progressive doctors’ offices and went global. In the early days, people found out about AIP from reading online or picking up a copy of our books. This year, the functional and alternative medicine communities started hearing about AIP and we heard more and more from both our followers and clients that their doctors were recommending this approach. A GI doctor reached out to us about the positive results one of her IBD patients had with AIP, and that discussion turned into a full-blown medical study using AIP, later that year.
• Also in 2016, it became clear to us that our movement was no longer US-based, as both international readership and membership in the blogging community grew exponentially. The AIP movement began to grow in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South America, Europe, and even the Middle East. Our discussions also shifted to encompass the lifestyle changes, implementation, and patient advocacy. We released our co-authored book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook and started The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast as guides to those who were not only looking for dietary information, but a well-rounded guide to all of the areas important to living well with autoimmune disease.

So, what happened to the AIP movement in 2017?

Let’s take a look at some numbers. We know the AIP movement is large and continues to grow, but this becomes more clear as we look at the stats. Here is some information we’ve gleaned from our website and social media channels that helps depict the size of our movement:

• Autoimmune Wellness has reached 4 million unique users with 13 million pageviews
• Over 130,000 people have signed up for our free AIP quick-start guide
• The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast has been downloaded over 400,000 times
• 86% of our readers on the site are female (compared to 93% on Facebook)
• 30% of our readers are 35-44, 25% are between 25-34, 20% are between 45-54, and 12% are between 55-64
• We have readers from 234 countries, including places like Antarctica, Nepal, South Sudan, and Turkmenistan (yes, really!). Our highest represented international communities are Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Germany, and South Africa
• We have 42 US-based AIP meetup groups spanning the entire country (almost one for every state!)
• We have 23 international AIP meetup groups (including Egypt, Croatia, and Finland!)
• On Instagram, #autoimmunepaleo and #autoimmuneprotocol have been used over 100,000 times each
• There are over 50 recipe bloggers writing about AIP, over 30 AIP-friendly cookbooks, and literally thousands of recipes available for the elimination phase
• We think it is safe to say the AIP movement is massive, engaged, continuing to grow, and thriving!

This year, the AIP community got a huge piece of validating news in the results of the first-ever medical study of the diet for those with IBD (inflammatory bowel disease). While tens of thousands of us already knew that the protocol works, having the data legitimize the efforts we’d been putting in for years and helped us open new conversations with healthcare teams. Even though the study was restricted to those with IBD, our anecdotal experience as a community says that we are likely to find similar results with other autoimmune disease types if we are lucky enough to see future studies. Here is a summary of the study results:

• There were 15 participants, nine with Crohn’s and six with ulcerative colitis.
• Angie’s group coaching program, SAD to AIP in SIX, was used to transition participants to AIP for the study.
• By Week 6 (that was full AIP elimination), 11 of the 15 participants were in clinical remission (six with Crohn’s, five with ulcerative). A 73% success rate!
• All eleven participants maintained clinical remission through the maintenance phase.
• Seven of the 15 participants were on active biologic therapies but not in clinical remission at baseline, and this suggests that diet can be an important component of successful treatment.
• The researchers concluded, “We did not hypothesize, a priori, that clinical remission would be achieved so early (week 6). Indeed, this proportion of participants with active IBD achieving clinical remission by week 6 rivals that of most drug therapies for IBD . . . (Konijeti, et al. 2017)” In other words, it works!!

The AIP community showed their collective creative and fundraising capacity through a successful launch of The Complete AIP Resource Library in August and November.

• Over 40 recipe authors and contributors collaborated to bring a high-value, low-cost resource to the community.
• Together, we were able to raise over $30,000 for charities that support the autoimmune community through research, advocacy, education, and real-food access.

This year Mickey, Angie and Sarah graduated the first 100 AIP Certified Coaches. In 2016, the three of us recognized the need to train others in this approach and started developing a certification program for those in both the natural and conventional health care systems. This year we enrolled, taught, and graduated our very first class!

• The first class of AIP Certified Coaches included MDs, NDs, Pharmacists, DCs, RDs, PTs, RNs, PAs, fitness coaches, mental health professionals, NTP/Cs, CHCs, Herbalists, LaCs, and other types of practitioners.
• We are happy to announce that AIP Certified Coaches are incorporating AIP into their practices around the globe, with many international coaches and others who work virtually over skype. (Looking for a coach? Check out the AIP Certified Coach Directory!
• These practitioners are now part of an “army” of AIP-trained professionals, able to make an enormous impact on the chronic illness epidemic around the globe.

This year the SAD to AIP in SIX program graduates neared the 2,000-member mark. In addition to being successfully used in the first medical study to evaluate the effectiveness of AIP, it has become recognized as the most affordable, gentle, and sustainable way to transition to the protocol and achieve wellness.

Phew! No wonder we are a little tired this season ;).

How has the AIP community changed over the years?

If you are just joining our movement now, it might not be readily apparent how much has changed. Here are some of the biggest things we notice:

• More resources. We’ve gone from a few blogs to countless print and digital resources to help folks cook, meal plan, and navigate their health journeys.
• Doctor recommendations. We never used to hear “my doctor told me to try AIP.” Now, we hear it all the time!
• A shift from virtual to real connections. The hub of our community has changed from primarily virtual connection on social media, to deeper connections via in-person meetup groups.
• The community is huge. We regularly overhear folks talking about AIP in the grocery store, while traveling, and in other public places.
• It is global. There are now AIP bloggers and groups in many different languages and countries.
• More convenient AIP foods. We now have a plethora of options for ready-made meals, snacks, and ingredients to make compliant dishes.
• More accessibility for real foods. We are finding “real food” staples like broth, turmeric root, and pastured meat in regular grocery stores, and easier access through online shopping.
• More focus on troubleshooting. We know a lot more now about the different areas and ways to troubleshoot that go beyond simply what is on our plates.
• Reintroduction support. As more folks move on from the elimination phase, there has been more discussion and resources about support through reintroductions and a conversation about long-term healing.
• A shift to incorporate patient advocacy and lifestyle changes. We as a community have embraced the concept that healing is not just about food!
• More open-mindedness about blending conventional treatment options. In the beginning, going without medication or surgery seemed like a badge of honor, but now the community has opened up to the idea of using the best of both worlds to live our healthiest despite autoimmune disease.
• Haters gonna hate. Our movement is big enough that there are folks out there actively trying to discredit it. This may seem like a downside, but it is actually a testament to the fact that we are now a part of a bigger shift in both the food system and healthcare (those outdated systems feel the threat!).

So, what is next for the AIP community in 2018 and beyond?

• A real focused effort to get AIP mainstream. We are poised to take AIP even further and firmly establish its viability as a healing option for those with autoimmune disease.
• More doctors will jump on board to recommending AIP as they hear positive experiences from their patients and as they see the results of past and future research on the protocol. The obstacle here is showing the doctors that there is an emerging field of health coaches and nutritional therapists who are capable and willing to bridge the gap between their recommendations and how a patient implements it in their own lives.
• Expansion of real-life AIP resources like restaurants, retreats, and centers. There is a growing demand for this niche market and we are excited to see it take off.
• Bridging the accessibility gap and making AIP more affordable and practical for those on a low income or with limited access.
• Further research on the use of AIP for other autoimmune conditions. The first study has awakened interest from researchers in other areas and we are hopeful to see more money allocated to this research.
• An expansion of community events like meetups, workshops, and classes both in the US and around the world.
• More stories. We anticipate more members of the community both blogging and sharing their stories on social media (including those with “rare” conditions – we might find out that these conditions aren’t as uncommon as we think they are!).
• More AIP Certified Coaches who are trained to specifically implement this approach in a 1:1 setting.
• A more rapid global expansion. We look forward to translated resources and even practitioners in other countries incorporating AIP into their approaches.
• Tens of thousands more folks will find healing and tell their friends – leading to even greater exponential growth of our movement! It’s all pretty exciting, isn’t it?

Now that you have the longview, you can see how far AIP has come and its potential to impact even more people in the future. In order to fulfill our mission here at Autoimmune Wellness, we need to be strategic.

Can you help us decide where to focus our energy?

We would love your input on how we’ve been doing as leaders in the AIP movement and what we can do next. We are taking feedback in the form of a reader survey during the month of January.

Take me to the survey!

Thank you!

We always strive to keep our core concepts close to our work. We believe that the key ideas we outlined at the beginning of 2016 for reclaiming wellness are still the same. You can find these 20 simple statements by reading our Autoimmune Wellness Manifesto, or listening to episodes #17 or #18 of the Autoimmune Wellness Podcast where we interview members of the AIP blogging community about each tenet. We hope these will continue to serve as touchstones for you too.

Lastly, thank you for being a part of our community, whether you’ve been one of the original members of our healing crew or are a new follower. We sincerely appreciate your contributions to this movement, and hope to serve you even better in 2018. Happy New Year!

The post The State of AIP 2018 appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

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This is a special bonus series of The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast where we are sharing in long, conversational format our personal healing stories. In each of these episodes, we are joined by our Content Manager, Grace Heerman, who interviews us individually about our experiences with illness.

If you are new to our podcast, we recommend starting at the very beginning of Season 1, where we take a deep look into the seven steps to living well with autoimmune disease, as outlined in our co-authored book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook. In season 2 we expanded the format to include Q and A episodes as well as interviews with those who have used AIP to successfully heal from chronic illness.

Mickey’s Interview

Welcome back to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast! We are in the middle of producing a third season for you all to enjoy, and we believe it will be our most actionable and best season yet. In the meantime, we are sharing long-format interviews on our personal healing journeys, lead by our amazing content director Grace.

Today you’ll hear Grace interview Mickey in-depth about her healing story, including what it was like to experience a healing crisis in her twenties having been newly married, without health insurance, and with a very limited understanding from her friends and family.

We’ll be back around the New Year with an update about what we have in store for you guys both on the blog and for the podcast.

Thank you Grace, for facilitating these interviews for us! Enjoy everyone!

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

The post Bonus Episode #2: Deep Dive w/ Mickey appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

This post contains affiliate links. Click here to see what that means!

This is a special bonus series of The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast where we are sharing in long, conversational format our personal healing stories. In each of these episodes, we are joined by our Content Manager, Grace Heerman, who interviews us individually about our experiences with illness.

If you are new to our podcast, we recommend starting at the very beginning of Season 1, where we take a deep look into the seven steps to living well with autoimmune disease, as outlined in our co-authored book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook. In season 2 we expanded the format to include Q and A episodes as well as interviews with those who have used AIP to successfully heal from chronic illness.

Angie’s Interview

Welcome back to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast! We’re sorry that it has been so long since we’ve released any episodes; the truth is that we have spent a good part of this year working on training our AIP Certified Coaches, and now that our first class has graduated, we’re back to focusing on developing some new podcast content for you guys to enjoy. We can’t wait to share with you what we’ve been up to!

In the meantime, we do have a couple of special bonus episodes to share with you guys. We’re going to give you a little backstory about how this came about, because it was definitely not something we’ve been planning. Our content director, Grace, interviewed Angie for some writing she was doing on the site.

Now, at the time, neither Angie or Grace knew how deep and personal the interview would be, and they recorded it so that Grace could revisit some of the events Angie spoke about. None of us knew how moving and powerful this long, conversational interview would be, and when we all gave it a listen, we thought that we needed to share it in some way, and that some of you might find it helpful to hear our personal healing stories in this format. This conversation includes the full details of Angie’s 11-year struggle with obtaining her autoimmune diagnosis, much of which took place while living overseas in Africa.

Thank you Grace, for facilitating these interviews for us! Enjoy everyone!

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

The post Bonus Episode #1: Deep-Dive w/ Angie appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

This post contains affiliate links. Click here to see what that means!

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 8 is our final episode of the season! And what an episode to end on. We don’t often hear stories from men in the Hashimoto’s community but today, Angie is interviewing our friend Ryan Monahan who has managed his Hashi’s symptoms in one of the most challenging professional environments: a tour bus.

As a traveling musician, Ryan had to become an expert at thinking ahead and being proactive about his healing. No matter your career, you will definitely find takeaways here. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients just like you to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. On to the podcast!

Topics:
1. Introducing our guest, Ryan, and his diagnosis story [2:30]
2. Learning about holistic treatment [13:17]
3. Treatment with the greatest impact [19:53]
4. AIP on the road and touring [24:54]
5. Biggest dietary impact on symptoms [33:06]
6. Stand-out supporters [36:17]
7. Highest point of the journey [40:11]
8. Final takeaways from Ryan [44:29]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season 2. This is Angie, and today I’m interviewing Ryan. He is a Hashi’s warrior, and also a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner. And additionally, with all of that going on, he’s also a passionate musician who has been in the music industry for 15 years, and member of a regular touring band, Easter Island. We are going to dig into that, you guys; touring and AIP. It can be done.

We’ve gotten a lot of feedback that you guys find it helpful to hear from folks who have taken on the healing journey in real life. So today we will be sharing a little bit of Ryan’s story. Thank you, Ryan, for joining us from Georgia. Are you ready to get started?

Ryan: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it.

1. Introducing our guest, Ryan, and his diagnosis story [2:30]

Angie Alt: Yeah. We’re really excited to share a lot of different stories this season. So let’s just dive in with some questions. You know, one of the areas we love to explore with people is diagnosis, and folks’ diagnosis story. Because as you probably know, in the autoimmune community, that can be kind of a harrowing journey. What was the first symptom you noticed of your autoimmune disease?

Ryan: Yeah. So I had really struggled with allergies and asthma my entire life. And just generally symptoms of related to ear, nose, and throat. I was one of those just kind of sick all the time kids. Like, oh he’s on antibiotics; oh, he’s had bronchitis, the croup. You name it. Strep throat, just constantly. And that kind of persisted into my adult life. And then it started getting worse when I was in college. And it was really when I noticed that things were getting really bad was when I was sleeping for 10, 12 hours at a time, and was having trouble waking. So I would set three alarms, and that still wouldn’t wake me up. And I would set an alarm on my stereo system, and it would be shaking the entire room.

Angie Alt: Oh boy! {laughs}

Ryan: Yeah, and I would still just sleep through it and miss classes. It took me a few years to really piece it together. Because at that time, I had just assumed I’m burning the candle at both ends, I’m a busy guy, I’m just exhausted. I’m just kind of burnt out. And you know, that was kind of the narrative I told myself for a while.

Angie Alt: Ok. So it was probably since childhood that you were kind of dealing with some of this stuff, and it sounds like it kind of came into full being in probably your early 20s, in college. I think that happens to a lot of us, actually, in this autoimmune world. And it can be hard to separate it, right? From, is this just regular, like you said, burning the candle at both ends, or not?

Ryan: Absolutely. I think as a society, we’re just kind of accustomed to accepting a really low baseline for health. And when everybody is more or less sick around us, I don’t think. It’s kind of like that quote, “The last thing a fish would ever notice is water.”

Angie Alt: Right.

Ryan: And so I think, yeah, we just kind of assume that because symptoms are common that they’re normal. And we just try to cope with it, and maybe try things here and there. I’ll try some vitamin C, and kind of self-medicate a little bit. But as you know, that only lasts for so long until your symptoms are sort of screaming at you for help.

Angie Alt: Right. So how long did it take you, then, to actually get an official diagnosis from that point when you were kind of like; “Oh, this is not normal. I can’t even get up to my stereo system screaming at me. What’s going on here?”

Ryan: Well. You know, it’s really hard to say. Because I had been dealing with these things most of my life. It was just really in college that they kind of reached a peak. But I would say it’s at least 10 years. I wasn’t diagnosed with Hashimoto’s until I was 28. And this is kind of insane, but I actually had visited over 40 doctors before I received a diagnosis.

Angie Alt: I actually don’t think that’s insane. I totally hear you brother! {laughs} I’ve been there too.

Ryan: Yeah.

Angie Alt: But yeah, it feels insane in comparison to a lot of other people. But you’re just searching and searching. Do you think that in part being a male was a barrier to getting a Hashi’s diagnosis, because it’s so commonly women?

Ryan: Absolutely. I think doctors just didn’t think to check with the sort of constellation of symptoms that I was experiencing. Although, those are more commonly associated with women, I think I got overlooked by the traditional medical system. And no one had ever thought to look for those kinds of markers for the thyroid. Because it’s, what, 8 times, is that correct? About 8 times more likely in women than in men?

Angie Alt: Boy, I don’t know the exact percentages. But yes, it’s much, much more common in women. But it does happen. I know of a lot of other men actually out there in our community, too, dealing with Hashi’s. It’s too bad that it’s not on more doctor’s radars.

Ryan: it also makes me wonder how many men are just not seeking the kind of medical help or advice. I suspect that maybe they wouldn’t be as inclined to visit the doctor if they were experiencing the same symptoms that a woman would be.

Angie Alt: Right. Yeah.

Ryan: So there might be; in other words, there might be a little bit of male pride kind of issue going on there.

Angie Alt: Yeah, maybe some male pride. And then the combination of the doctor’s kind of overlooking it. And it makes it tough for somebody like you to get a diagnosis. When you got the diagnosis, how did you handle it?

Ryan: When I got the diagnosis, I was sort of a combination of scared and confused. And also really thrilled.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Ryan: Like, this weight had been lifted off of my shoulders. Like, I didn’t even really know what the thyroid was or what it’s function was. But I was also just really extremely excited to have a diagnosis, and to know that I wasn’t crazy and that this wasn’t all in my head. I now had something concrete to work on.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally relate to that feeling. For me, I kind of relate it; it was sort of like naming my enemy. And now I could actually fight effectively. Before that, I had no idea. It was kind of like being in the dark and sort of hoping that I could figure it out. So I really relate to that. How did your friends and family handle your diagnosis?

Ryan: Well, I think everyone was just relieved to see me get better. I remember a good friend of mine seeing me only a week after I had been on Synthroid. And he said, “What did you do with Ryan?”

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Ryan: Because I just had this pep in my step all of a sudden. And my face physically looked different. I lost this sort of puffiness in my face. And my voice changed. It was kind of freaky. So people kind of looked at me funny at first. But I think everyone was relieved. Everyone kind of knew something was up, but nobody really knew what it was.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can totally understand that. Do you think that; this is a pretty common experience, but not everyone shares it in the community. Do you think that some of your friends and family kind of doubted that there was something really there? Did you ever feel like you were kind of desperately trying to make people believe that something really was wrong?

Ryan: Yeah, 100%. And I won’t name names.

Angie Alt: Yeah, I get it. {laughs}

Ryan: But I think a lot of my friends and family thought I was a little bit of a hypochondriac, that it was in my head. Or some of the things that I had expressed to them that I was going through, I think they maybe overlooked, or had just kind of passed off as, oh that’s normal. You’re getting older. And it’s like, but wait a minute! I’m in my early or mid-20s. I shouldn’t be sleeping 12 hours a day, I shouldn’t be this depressed. I shouldn’t be this fatigued all the time. So it was really hard for that reason. I feel like I had to sort of internalize it. And kind of internalize the suffering, to an extent. In the sort of darkest hour, I remember feeling like I thought I was dying, and had no idea what was going on. And then I would beat myself up. Like, “Oh, you’re being so dramatic. You’re not dying.” And you know, I maybe wasn’t that far from it. Because when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s, my TSH was above 150.

Angie Alt: Wow.

Ryan: And for those of you who don’t know, optimal thyroid range is maybe between 0.5 and 1.5. So my TSH was actually above the detectible lab limit. So it was somewhere above 150; the lab couldn’t even detect it that high.

Angie Alt: Wow.

Ryan: But I remember my doctor saying, “I don’t even know how you were able to get up in the morning,” for years, potentially, that I was dealing with this without having any diagnosis.

Angie Alt: Right. So you’re at the extreme end of experiencing, to that point, this undiagnosed autoimmune disease. And you’re unable to find answers. You’re seeing upwards of 40 doctors at this point trying to get those answers. And the people around you are beginning to doubt the validity of the problem. And yeah, you’re right. Of course you’re going to internalize all that. So then getting a diagnosis, in some ways, I think sometimes, maybe outside of our autoimmune community it can sound like we’re a little kooky, being a little thrilled or relieved to be given a diagnosis of having a chronic illness. {laughs}

Ryan: Yeah.

Angie Alt: But it’s actually really validating when you’re in that terrible spot for so many years.

Ryan: Yeah. It’s incredibly validating. Because you realize that you didn’t have to beat yourself up so much over your diagnosis, you know. And I think sometimes even people get into the more psychospiritual aspect of their condition. And think, maybe it’s karma. Maybe I deserve this for some reason. I think you can get kind of deep into blaming yourself for your illness. And once you realize that it has a physiological root to it, I think that’s incredibly relieving. Because you can kind off cast aside that narrative that it’s your fault.

2. Learning about holistic treatment [13:17]

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. Right. So, how long after receiving the Hashi’s diagnosis did you start to dive in and learn about autoimmune disease itself, and start to kind of understand that process? Were you somebody who really wanted to kind of gather as much knowledge as you could, or did you feel a little fearful or tentative about getting some of that information?

Ryan: It was a pretty gradual process. I would say the first 9 months I really didn’t understand much about what was going on, and I just sort of trusted the advice of my endocrinologist at the time. Which was just to take the Synthroid, there’s nothing you can do about it. And I kind of left it at that.

Then, like many people experienced, the Synthroid only had a positive effect for so long. And a lot of my symptoms started popping up again. And that’s really when I started taking things into my own hands. Because I started to question. Ok, so my thyroid is malfunctioning. I get that. I get that my immune system is attacking my thyroid. But I wanted to know why, you know? I’ve never been the type of person to just kind of lie over and accept something. And that’s when I started to really kind of try to reverse engineer what was going on, and to do my own research and become my own health advocate. And at that point, I had started to do some internet research, and I came across Izabella Wentz’ book, which for many people is the thyroid/Hashimoto’s bible.

Angie Alt: Right.

Ryan: And you know, that was the first thing I had read that had opened me up to what functional medicine is, and what it could offer. And this whole concept of looking for root causes, and looking for nutrient deficiencies, and hormone imbalances, and gut infections, and even things like metal toxicity. All these things were just not on my radar until I had discovered her book. So that was really a game-changer for me. Because it provided a road map to how to manage the condition. And in some cases, people are even able to successfully put it into remission through implementing some of these strategies.

So shortly after discovering her book, I came across Mickey’s website. Which, at the time, had her Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, which was just an eBook at the time. So this was kind of really at the beginning stages of things.

Angie Alt: That was back in the way back. {laughs}

Ryan: Way back, yeah. And I can’t even say I remember how I found her website. But I did somehow. And I really resonated with her story, because I felt like we had a lot in common in the sense that we both had Hashimoto’s, we were both former vegans, we both had gluten intolerance, we both had an MTHFR mutation, all these different things. And just through that kind of connection, even though I hadn’t met her yet, it had really led me to want to find out more about, what’s the whole autoimmune paleo thing? That’s when I kind of dipped my toes into making dietary and lifestyle changes.

Angie Alt: Ok. So it sounds like kind of your first initial reaction was to kind of go with the conventional approach, and you gave yourself a little bit of time to, at least let the hormone replacement help you get stabilized a little. And then digest this new information, and then you kind of were like; ok. This conventional approach isn’t enough, or all of the picture, for me. And you started really digging for information on your own.

Ryan: Yeah. Absolutely.

Angie Alt: Do you think that as you got more and new information and implemented it into your life, that your collaborative skills with your health care team grew? Or were there any bumps in the road there?

Ryan: Yeah, I would say once I kind of found the right practitioner for me, that things started going a lot smoother. I had to do a little bit of digging, at first. I had to fire my endocrinologist because he wouldn’t run anything other than a TSH, which is really common. But I asked to run thyroid antibodies again, and reverse T3, and the free T3 and free T4. And he straight up told me that it would be a waste of my money.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Ryan: So you know, I was diplomatic about it, but I essentially just didn’t book a follow-up appointment. And then through a friend of the family, I found a really great integrative doctor out of Atlanta. And he’s been a really instrumental part of my team, and helped me make the switch from Synthroid to Armour, which I had felt like I did a lot better on once I made that switch.

And then, you know, in terms of building a health care team; at first my team was kind of virtual. In the sense that I found you guys, and Sarah Ballantyne, and Chris Kresser, and Izabella Wentz. I think that was kind of the beginning stages of feeling like I was part of a community. And I think we’re living in this really amazing time where these tools are at our disposal, and we’ve never had more power to sort of help ourselves and be our own health advocates than we do now.

Angie Alt: Right. I couldn’t agree with you more. I feel like in some ways I feel kind of lucky that if I was going to have autoimmune disease in my life, that it happened at this point in history. Because the information is all out there, and the community is really strong. Especially on social media, for that kind of support. So in some ways, we’re kind of lucky.

Ryan: Yeah, it couldn’t be a better time. If I had been diagnosed like even in 2010, I don’t think I would have been able to follow the same successful trajectory that I have.

3. Treatment with the greatest impact [19:53]

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. Totally agree with you there. So, at this point, you’ve gotten some hormone replacement on board; some conventional therapy. You’ve also started to dig into some of the natural dietary and lifestyle stuff that you can do for yourself. What do you think was most effective initially, back then, when you were relatively newly diagnosed? Relatively new to the natural DIY healthcare community. And then over time, what do you think has been the most effective treatments?

Ryan: So, the most effective, beyond just the diet and lifestyle, which are just absolutely critical to maintaining your autoimmune disease. And not just maintaining it, but thriving. For me was really digging a little bit deeper and looking at potential root causes. For example, in my case, I had run a series of gut pathogens panels, and found out that I had Blastocystis hominis, which is a fairly common parasite that’s associated with Hashimoto’s, in addition to H. pylori. So I had this kind of infectious load going on in my gut, and it wasn’t until I did the proper antimicrobial protocols and eradicated those infections. That’s when I saw a really huge, not only drop off in my antibodies, but a really big improvement in my symptoms.

So, for that reason, having this knowledge, I always try to encourage people to; diet is the cornerstone of your health in addition to getting the proper rest and stress reduction and all these kinds of pillars of health. But looking a little deeper can be really, really critical because it’s often the case that something’s triggering that autoimmune imbalance, for your immune system to be attacking your thyroid in the first place.

Angie Alt: Right. It’s sometimes useful to go searching for those deeper things and treat them, if you can. So let’s shift gears a little bit and talk about that diet. You talked about finding Mickey’s site, in those early days, finding what was an eBook at that time. The Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook, and starting to bring diet on board. How long into the AIP transition was it before you realized it could impact your healing? Like, it wasn’t just that you were reading this could happen, but you were actually feeling it yourself?

Ryan: It was pretty quick. At that point, I guess when I believe that something’s going to work, I just kind of dive into it, you know? And I had tried several other things that didn’t work for me. So I was pretty open minded to trying the diet out, and really just kind of diving all into it. Thankfully I’m a pretty good cook, so it wasn’t too hard to make the change and kind of start incorporating grass-fed meats and bone broth and things like that. I wish I had bought a pressure cooker sooner; that would have made my life a little easier.

Angie Alt: Right!

Ryan: But I noticed the changes pretty quickly. And it was a big adjustment, though. Because you have to cook a lot more. So I definitely had to adapt and change my lifestyle quite a bit. As you mentioned at the beginning, I’ve been a touring musician on and off for 10 or 15 years. And one of the hardest parts about incorporating this into my life was pursuing this passion I have for my music career, while also maintaining this new lifestyle. And that required a real commitment to my health, and to putting that first. And to really be conscious about that on a day-to-day, hour-by-hour basis, in a way that I never had before.

4. AIP on the road and touring [24:54]

Angie Alt: Yeah, in the beginning you really have to think about it like that, on the hour-by-hour basis. It does get better. I think most of us would say over time it’s not quite as intense. But in the beginning, it takes a lot of commitment and just reaffirming all the time that you’re going to keep doing this and follow that path. What kind of changes were you able to implement while you were out on the road touring? And were your band-mates supportive of you and all these changes?

Ryan: You know, they’re great people, and they’re absolutely supportive. In my head, I tend to think that everybody thinks that I’m extreme. Whether that’s the case or not. But I have to do what’s best for me. So sometimes that means packing a little cooler with me, like a lunchbox, and having some snacks in my backpack. Having some Epic bars always ready to go, in case the only thing around is a gas station. I don’t ever want to be in a situation where the only thing available to me is a bag of Doritos.

Angie Alt: Right.

Ryan: So if that means bringing some Epic bars, and some Seasnax and some carrots and bananas, or plantain chips, or what have you. I’m always prepared in that sense. And you get really good about doing research ahead of time. “Ok, we’re headed to St. Louis; what restaurants are there that might be accommodating to having a gluten-free menu, dairy-free menu, etc.” So you get a little bit better about planning in advance. And usually, everyone will be on board if you’ve made that determination ahead of time and be like, “Guys, this is where we’re eating.” {laughs}

Angie Alt: Deal with it. {laughs}

Ryan: Deal with it, yeah. And there are some other helpful little things. I’m still kind of figuring it out. It’s not entirely easy, but I’ve been making it work. I’ll bring a sleep mask with me, if I need to just block the light out and get some good sleep. Last tour I went on, I brought a yoga mat with me. So if we’re in an AirBNB or hotel, I can just roll out the yoga mat, pop open a little 20 or 30-minute yoga session on my phone, and then I’m getting some exercise in. And after being in the van for 8 hours, I can stretch it out. Even one time I led the band in a group yoga session.

Angie Alt: Awesome!

Ryan: So, yeah. You have to find ways to make it work, and adjust. You get a little bit better at it every time.

Angie Alt: You know, I’m totally loving this right now, Ryan. A couple, maybe three or even four years ago now, I wrote this blog post about my top 3 tips about how to really make this transition work in real life. Including maybe being part of a touring band, or whatever. And one of the things I said was, “Don’t be weird.” Basically, if you really respect your process and value your health, and just put the right changes in place to put that at the top of your list, the people around you will actually come around and respect it and be supportive. Because you’ve put that signal out there that it’s not weird. That it’s a great thing to do. And it sounds like you’re really successfully doing that. Even though you’re part of a cool touring band, and they’re ok with it and supporting you.

Ryan: Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. You kind of just have to own it. You can also help others by just being yourself. Like leading by example. Because often times, other people will kind of dip their toes into some of the lifestyle changes that you’ve made. Even if it’s just little bread crumbs you’re leaving for them along the way. They’re still becoming more conscious of it. And next time they order a burger, they might order in a lettuce wrap instead of a bun or something. So in that sense, you can have a little bit of impact on people. And I’m not like an in your face type of person. I just do my thing. I just do what I have to do, what’s right for me. And I think people respect and appreciate that approach. Because I’m never trying to be like, “You need to eat this!” you know. That would never; you can’t be in a touring band and tell your band-mates they need to get to bed on time.

Angie Alt: {laughing} Right!

Ryan: But you can just go to bed earlier, and you might have a little more energy, and they might notice. Like, “Hey, Ryan’s killing it and we all have a cold.” Or something.

Angie Alt: We’re all dragging, right.

Ryan: We’re all dragging, yeah.

Angie Alt: I think sometimes in working with people and kind of seeing fears that people have in the community initially, adopting AIP, I think they can sometimes be a little nervous about; you know. It is a really big dietary change, and it does have an impact on your life. Even your social life, and potentially your career. And for somebody like you, your career is, in part, a really heart-centered career. You’re obviously very passionate about music. You’ve been doing this a long time. But it sounds like for you it might have even made you a better musician over time. Do you think that’s true?

Ryan: I can say I’ve never thought of it directly in that kind of way. But yeah, maybe that’s the case. I certainly think; yeah, maybe in the sense that AIP requires such discipline that I think that can translate into whatever you pursue.

Angie Alt: Right.

Ryan: Does that make sense?

Angie Alt: Yeah, yeah. Do you think that your creative juices are stronger, kind of flowing better these days as compared to when you were sick and trying to make music?

Ryan: Oh absolutely. One of the hardest parts, actually, about the period of my life when I was undiagnosed was that I started getting to a point where I was too tired to play music. And it just became this requirement. And I felt like I had to show up to rehearsals. It was awful, because I remember thinking I couldn’t wait for it to be over. Or I couldn’t wait for a performance to be done. I didn’t want to hang out after a show. I just wanted to go home and get into bed and sleep for 12 hours. That’s how I knew that something was really, really wrong. Because I just started to completely lack the passion and motivation to really do anything.

So by turning my health around, yeah it absolutely helped me become a more prolific musician and writer and performer and to be able to have the energy and passion to put into it. And that’s why I think this stuff is more important to me than anything. Getting your health figured out. Because until you have that, you really don’t have anything. You’re not going to be able to be effective at whatever you’re doing in life. And so, yeah. By getting the diet squared away, by getting on the right medication. By investigating some of these root cause issues. Every year I feel like I’m getting a little bit better and better.

And I really love this idea of sort of improving yourself 1% each day. That could be meditation, journaling, making a dietary change, taking a 20-minute walk. Just little things; just 1% every day. And it might not seem like a lot, but over the course of a year, you’re a completely different person by the end of it.

5. Biggest dietary impact on symptoms [33:06]

Angie Alt: Right. Yeah, it adds up to something totally amazing by just those little changes. So, ok, one last question in terms of specifically the dietary changes. Was there any one aspect of the dietary change that stands out to you as having made the greatest impact for you, especially initially. Like, some people go; “As soon as I took gluten out of my diet, it was amazing. That was such a huge change.” For other people, it’s adding in the nutrient density. Maybe it’s blood sugar management. Was there any part of the dietary change that just really stood out as huge for you?

Ryan: So I had actually gone gluten-free around 2006 or 2007. So I incorporated that change pretty early on. And I noticed a huge improvement with my brain fog, and depression. But at first, I had nightmares. I had withdrawal symptoms. I don’t know if you had experienced or have ever heard of that kind of thing. But I definitely; gluten is like crack or something.

Angie Alt: {laughing}

Ryan: I had crazy withdrawal symptoms where I was having night terrors, and I would wake up thinking someone was breaking into my house. But yeah. The huge improvement in my mood when I removed gluten permanently from my diet. And then once I started getting really serious about doing AIP; clearly bone broth is like liquid gold.

Angie Alt: Right.

Ryan: I mean, it just gives me this kind of energy that’s pretty unparalleled. You can just feel it. It feels good in your gut. Yeah, that made a huge improvement in my health. And I would say that incorporating the lifestyle factors, too. Beyond just the diet. Because the autoimmune protocol is this comprehensive, holistic approach.

Angie Alt: Right.

Ryan: And for me, I would say sleep was the biggest factor in improving my health. For me, sleep is kind of the lynchpin. If I don’t get enough sleep, my health crumbles and all my symptoms start coming back. And it took a long time to adjust to that. Because as a musician, I’m sort of used to going to bed at 1 in the morning. And it wasn’t until about 2 or 3 years ago that I started to shift my sleep schedule and try to get to bed closer to 10 at night. And that actually really helped me to kind of reset my circadian rhythm. I just feel like I wake up with a lot more energy now than I did when I was getting to bed really late.

Angie Alt: You guys heard it here; even touring musicians can go to bed on time. {laughs}

Ryan: {laughs} Not always. {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Ryan: That’s the hard part. Because when I’m on tour, I have no choice sometimes but to go to bed at 2 in the morning. So when I get home, it’s just all sleep all the time.

Angie Alt: Good. Yeah, really focused.

Ryan: Yep.

6. Stand-out supporters [36:17]

Angie Alt: Have you had any; kind of shifting to talking about support in this process. Have you had any standout supporters who you feel really contributed to your healing journey?

Ryan: My girlfriend, Lindy, has been absolutely essential through the whole process. And has been really encouraging for the past few years as I’ve continued to work on my health, and make lifestyle changes. We’ve made most of the same dietary changes together. Which is really extremely helpful to have a partner, somebody to do the diet with. Otherwise you can feel like you’re on your own.

Other than having her support, I would really say that I’ve had to become my own cheerleader and my own advocate in the sense that no one is going to care about your health more than you will. So I reached this really critical point where I realized that I really had to get to a point where I was making my health a priority, and just became kind of a research nut. And all the research led me to thinking; “Hey, maybe this is more than just a hobby.” And that’s when I enrolled in functional diagnostic nutrition and got really, really serious about wanting to use this knowledge to help other people.

Angie Alt: So that’s one thing that I think is really important, as a health coach and a nutritional therapist. Really focusing on the empowerment piece, when I’m working with an autoimmune client who is really new to this way of healing. I think empowerment is a particularly important issue for autoimmune folks, because most of us have gone through that experience of kind of being dismissed, or invalidated by not only potentially family and friends, but even the medical system itself. You can kind of; I guess lose steam a little bit in doing what you need for yourself. Do you feel like having that experience personally has helped you with your clients, working on empowerment?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. Because through just a decade or more of trial and error, I had realized that I was just kind of masking the symptoms with either medication or even supplements, to an extent. Just because it’s a supplement doesn’t always mean you need to be taking it. It took me a long time to not only realize that I had to be my own health advocate, but also this sort of concept of ending that cycle of trial and error by getting the right testing done. Finding out what’s really going on. And yeah, that takes a lot of self-motivation and self-discipline. And until you have that mindset, I think you might not be ready yet for that kind of journey.

So us health coaches always keep that in mind, I think. When you’re taking someone on, you want to make sure that they’re somebody that’s really serious about helping themselves. And if they’re not, you might have to do a little more coaching and hand-holding through the process. Providing lots of encouragement. So yeah, I would definitely say that my own journey helps me to better understand what it’s like; to empathize to be in that position.

7. Highest point of the journey [40:11]

Angie Alt: Right. Ok, so earlier you kind of said that one of your really particularly low points in your disease experience was feeling like you just didn’t even have enough energy to make music anymore. That you were kind of dreading practice; you just kind of wanted to leave a show and go home and go to bed. You just weren’t enjoying this thing that had been your passion. On the other side of that; have there been any high points, especially since you started healing where you just either felt really good, or felt really empowered in managing the disease. Has there been a high point where you were like, “Yeah! I feel great again!”

Ryan: I can’t pinpoint an exact moment, per se. It’s just more like this process. This gradual process. Like every month, every year, I’m feeling better and better. I’m traveling more, and I’m doing things in my music career that I never thought I’d be able to do. And I feel like I just keep reaching these new plateaus. And that’s super exciting to me. I’m living the life I wanted to live before I had a diagnosis, you know?

And also I just nerd out on all the information. The blogs and podcasts and just the community of practitioners that’s growing online in this functional space is just incredibly exciting for me. And for me, that’s actually this continual high. I get really excited when I learn some kind of new bit of information that I hadn’t known before. And I can incorporate that into my life. I can use that information to help other people.

Angie Alt: Right. Right. What do you still find yourself working on? Are there any areas that are still a little difficult for you?

Ryan: Yeah, sure. So, I definitely still struggle with a little bit of fatigue. It comes and goes. I definitely have more better weeks than I used to. And those sort of balance of symptom flare-ups get further spread apart. But I would say that my sort of allergy and congestion and my fatigue, those are things that tend to come back when I have a flare-up. But it’s all a lot more manageable than it ever has been.

Angie Alt: Yeah, I really relate to that. There’s definitely still things that I’m managing, and probably will have to manage to some extent for the rest of my life. But in comparison to what it was before, it’s practically a gift. {laughs}

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And when you’ve been sick, and had a chronic illness like Hashimoto’s, it makes you appreciate health more than anything.

Angie Alt: Right. I think Mickey and I were lucky. We recently got to work on a project, and we talked a lot about that. We were saying it can be this huge cliché than nothing is more valuable than your health; yadda, yadda, yadda. But for those of us in this community, having experienced really not having our health. For some of us, literally feeling like we might be close to death, actually. The other side; I am so much more deeply appreciative of what I have than what I was before. I’m kind of grateful for that.

Ryan: Yeah. For me it really came down to this quality of mind sort of thing. When your symptoms are at their worst, everything just feels miserable. And I don’t know if you experienced this; but just everything irritated me. {laughs}

Angie Alt: Right. {laughs}

Ryan: Because you can’t really focus on much else than your own suffering. The symptoms are just; they get in your way of your moment to moment ability to just live your life and enjoy it. So when you come out on the other end of that, everything just feels amazing.

8. Final takeaways from Ryan [44:29]

Angie Alt: Yeah. Agreed. Ryan, do you have any tips or takeaways for anyone that’s beginning their autoimmune healing journey?

Ryan: Yeah. Your symptoms may be common, but they are not normal. Meaning that your symptoms are a sign from your body that something is wrong, and you need to go and do the work and find out what’s going on. Build that team. Try incorporating all the aspects of the autoimmune protocol. Keep digging at what’s causing your symptoms. Because your health is worth it, and your life will be infinitely better once you commit to your health.

Angie Alt: Right. Right. I couldn’t have said it better. That was a great interview. I think our listeners are really going to enjoy hearing about your experience, Ryan. If folks wanted to keep up with you, can you let them know where and how they can find you? Maybe not only in your practice, but also with your music?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. They can find my health coaching information at www.TheMindfulNutrivore.com. And Nutrivore is spelled N-U-T-R-I-V-O-R-E. You can also find some of the music projects that I’m currently working on. One of those projects is at www.EasterIsland.band. And also; let me make sure I have this website correct. Also, www.CindyWilsonB52s.com. I also perform in a project with Cindy Wilson of the B52s. It’s her solo project. And we’ve been recently touring on that new material. So, check it out, and I’d be happy to hear from you. Angie, I can’t tell you how much fun I had hanging out, and helping you guys shoot footage for the upcoming AIP Health Coaching program. And, for you having me on this podcast.

Angie Alt: Yeah. It was a pleasure. Thanks so much for helping us out with launching that project, too. We’re wishing you a lot of success as you continue to navigate your autoimmune wellness journey, Ryan.

That’s a wrap, everyone. The Autoimmune Wellness podcast season 2 is in the books; or I guess on the airwaves. Thank you so much for all the great feedback about how much you’ve enjoyed the podcast, and the ways it has inspired you. Even though it’s a surprising amount of work to pull this off, I have a feeling we’ll probably be back again with a season 3. So stay tuned; and take care everyone.

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The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by ordering your copy today!

Check out the previous episode, S2 E7 Q + A #4 – Friends and family, Epstein-Barr virus, white rice, and additional sensitivities. For the full podcast archive, click here.

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 7 is our final Q + A episode of the season! This week, Mickey and Angie are focusing on questions about food sensitivities beyond the AIP, and how to tweak the protocol to address unusual symptoms such as protein cravings. They also touch on how to handle discussions about AIP with coworkers, friends and family.

Plus, they start by chatting about how they’ve been managing stress recently, and their personal batch cooking neuroses. Scroll down for the full episode transcript!

How to listen:

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. On to the podcast!

Topics:
1. Mickey and Angie: Question of the week [2:39]
2. Suggesting AIP to friends and family [5:31]
3. Comments about diet and illness from coworkers [10:07]
4. Intolerance to foods on AIP [16:32]
5. Additional food sensitivities on AIP [20:30]
6. White rice after reintroduction [24:44]
7. Epstein-Barr and Hashimoto’s [27:05]
8. Intense protein cravings [34:46]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everybody! Mickey here, and welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast season 2. Today is our last round of question and answer for this season. Dun, dun, dunnn! How are you doing this week, Angie?

Angie Alt: I’m doing good. It’s been a little crazy. We’ve both been busy with conferences and other work travel and stuff. But it’s good. What about you? How are you doing?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Just trying to get control over the schedule and the cooking and the sleeping and the stress managing, and the texting. {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs} Yeah. So appropriate.

Mickey Trescott: It’s a lot. It’s a lot.

Angie Alt: Yeah, it’s been a lot. Yesterday; excuse me. Two days ago I cooked all the things. I was like, “oh my god, I have to get on top of the cooking!” and I cooked so much food and now I have too much food. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Well that’s not a big problem. Because you can always freeze it!

Angie Alt: Yeah, that’s true.

Mickey Trescott: That’s what I do. But yeah, the first thing I do when things start to get a little crazy is I start batch cooking. It’s like obsessive.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. I hear you.

1. Mickey and Angie: Question of the week [2:39]

Mickey Trescott: So, before we get onto our regular scheduled listener questions, we’re going to ask each other a question like we’ve been doing this whole series. I know Angie is ready to be done with this format, because she doesn’t like the random questions.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: But Angie, my question for you this week, is what aspect of personal healing are you working your hardest on right now?

Angie Alt: Oh boy. Mickey. You and the can of worms all the time. I would have to say honestly that I am probably in a period where I’m trying to be ok with things being the way they are. I’m trying to kind of let go of focusing a lot on healing, and just let things be kind of crazy, kind of hairy, kind of up and down. And just allow myself to kind of go with the flow. And sometimes the flow isn’t the direction you would hope for. But I’m just trying to be a little Zen about it at the moment. I think that’s where I’m really working, if I’m honest. What about you, Mick. What you do you have going on?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. You know, the meditation thing. It’s a little in the same vein; just kind of trying to accept the situation that I’m in. The stressors and the physical stuff. I feel like there are a lot of things I don’t have control over right now, so meditation has been very helpful. And I made a goal to meditate every day, and I was on a 68-day streak using the Calm app. Which, you know, you shared that with me and I got super into it. Of course, I’m an Upholder.

Angie Alt: Calm is awesome. Calm is my spirit animal.

Mickey Trescott: It’s the best. And I got really hooked in because I like having a perfect record, and so when it reminded me every day, it’s time to meditate, I would do a little meditation every day. And this week, it just fell off the rails, and I forgot one day. And I kid you not, I woke up at 3 in the morning, and the first thing I thought was, “Oh my gosh, I forgot to meditate yesterday!” And I was so sad I almost cried.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: I was like, “I was on a streak!” And you know what I wanted to do was to do it for a whole year. But I’ll get back on the wagon and keep going.

Angie Alt: Yeah, you’re doing great. You know what. You guys, this is a reason why you know Calm is really, really awesome. Mickey has the Upholder tendency. If you don’t know what we’re talking about, check out Gretchen Rubin and the Four Tendencies. So Mickey has the Upholder tendency, and she feels like she is going to do that internally and externally. She wants the reward of doing that. I am not the Upholder personality, but I still have had a similar experience where I woke up in the middle of the night and was like, “Oh no! I messed up my Calm streak!” That’s how great Calm is.

Mickey Trescott: It gets into your subconscious, and it’s just like, “Meditate. Meditate. Meditate.”

Angie Alt: It works for all tendencies.

2. Suggesting AIP to friends and family [5:31]

Mickey Trescott: It’s great. So that was fun. So let’s get onto tackling some of our specific questions. I did another call out on Instagram. We always get so many questions; way more than we could answer in a series, or in a podcast. But today we actually had some people asking some pretty similar questions, and actually upvoting other people’s questions. So we’ve got some topics that I think will apply to a lot of you guys today.

The first question, actually the first two questions are about friends, family, and the workplace. And HS; yeah I don’t know how to say that. Hutsau says, “How to approach friends and family who have autoimmune disorders, and think high power prescription drugs is the only reasonable treatment, or should you even go there?”

Angie Alt: Yeah. Wow. This is, I think probably for those of us who know that there are other approaches, or that combinations of approaches can really be the most effective and maintain the highest quality of life, it can be so disheartening and frustrating, and even maybe a little sad or scary to see friends and family choose this other route. And you feel like you have this information that could benefit them so much, and you’re so worried about the impact of the choice they’ve made. It can be hard to know what to do.

But, here’s the honest to goodness truth; you’re better off to not go there. You’re better off to just be a powerful example. People are changed not by your words, but by your actions. So just be a really strong example in your own life of healing, and how you’re able to either choose the completely natural route, which is awesome if you can do that. Or, combine, which a lot of us have to do. If you can just sort of give that example to your friends and family, that’s probably the best way to go. In time, when they are ready for that message, they’ll come to you.

I think in my life it started out like, “This is kind of crazy. Angie’s doing this fringe whatever thing.” And now, honestly, I almost have to beg my friends and family not to ask me questions about it, and ask for my help on it. Because they see, powerfully, that I followed through and I’m a lot healthier than I was before. So that would probably be my best advice. What would you say, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I would just add that the biggest reason for that is because it’s almost, you can’t force them to change. What we’re asking people to do; changing their diet, and changing their lifestyle, and advocating for themselves is a lot of work. And it’s pretty intense. And if you’re doing this yourself, and then you tell someone else; “Oh, you need to do this too.” And maybe they don’t; I think there’s a lot of judgement that could come with that. People in your family could avoid you, or not want to talk to you about it. And that’s not what you want in that situation. You don’t want to see, “Ha. I know all of this and you don’t. And you don’t have the time to do it. And it’s too overwhelming.” You maybe leading by example sets you up as the person to comes to when they’re ready. And then it kind of takes out all of that judgement that people could perceive there. So I think that’s why it’s really important not to go there. And let people come to you when they’re ready.

Like you said Angie; I’ve had so many people in my life. Like, really surprising, surprising people that I never would have thought would be asking me for help, and reach out. And I think it’s because I haven’t been pushy about telling everyone what they should do. You know?

Angie Alt: Right. Right. Exactly. Considering the level of commitment that healing through diet and lifestyle takes, it’s best that each person arrives there themselves.

Mickey Trescott: Well, it’s almost, to an addiction analogy. I have a lot of addiction history in my family. And there have been times where it would have been really easy to just force someone to go to rehab, or force them to confront their problem. But those are never the times when that person is able to make a sustainable change that actually changes their life. It’s painful for the people that know better, around them, and that’s the only thing I can maybe liken it to. That feeling of being someone that could help, but not being able to because the person isn’t ready yet. And that’s not in your control.

3. Comments about diet and illness from coworkers [10:07]

Angie Alt: Yep. Exactly. Ok, let’s see. Moving on to another kind of friends, family, workplace question. Pick Perfect Love says, “How to deal with working when you have an autoimmune disease? I’m a teacher, and my peers and principal tends to make comments about my diet, which is AIP, and I’m ‘always’ sick or not feeling well. I have to give 110% as a teacher, but there are some days when I am just not feeling well.” Mickey, what would you say to her?

Mickey Trescott: You know, this is definitely a situation where I would say these people are definitely not being supportive of your journey. And I think you might need to have a conversation about how what you’re doing is something that’s really difficult. You’re doing it for yourself, and these comments will not be tolerated in a work situation.

I would say that this kind of discussion might come up in families, because families are so much more complicated, and you’re related by blood. But I really don’t think that your coworkers and your boss have any right to comment on the food that you’re eating, and if you’re always sick or not feeling well.

Now, as it relates to your work, they have some say there. And that’s where it becomes tricky. Being an autoimmune patient and having a full-time career is no easy task. And I was confronted with this when I got really sick and had to go back to work. I wasn’t able to do my previous career. I got fired because I kept going into work sick, and tired, and I wasn’t able to keep up. And that’s how I got fired. And you know, that’s a dramatic situation, and it was very unpleasant and unhappy in the situation. But it actually made me realize that I needed to seek out a situation that was compatible with my illness.

So, not saying that you can’t be a teacher. Obviously, it sounds like you love your job and you really want to make it work. And I think trying to bridge that gap between your coworkers and your boss’ perception about your illness without maybe oversharing and trying to make them feel bad for you. But also being very strong and saying, “This is what I’m doing for my body, and it’s working. I shouldn’t be getting any judgement from you.” Because that’s not really their place. Wouldn’t you say, Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah. One thing that I might kind of bring into your own awareness that sometimes folks; especially folks that want to comment on your food or what they see you bringing in to work to eat each day. Sometimes they’re doing that out of a place of feeling maybe a little insecure about their own food choices. They might feel like maybe your plate is a little bit of a judgement on their plate. Which it’s obviously not. You know you’re doing it just because you want to heal, but sometimes, oddly enough, we in this situation have to do the job of reaffirming the other people who are making the comments. I know this sounds backwards, but it might help if you say, “Whatever you’re eating, cool. This is what I’m eating today because it makes me feel better. No big deal.” Sometimes saying that one little sentence changes the whole dynamic and people feel a little more calm and less worried.

Mickey Trescott: And Angie, you have a great thing that you say about this, “Don’t be weird.” And you know, if you’re kind of treating yourself as special, and you have this special food, and you make a big deal about it when people ask you about it. You’re like, “Oh my god, it’s really complicated, and it’s because I’m really sick.” You’re kind of weird about it, people are going to pick that up, and they’re going to be like, “Oh. That’s weird.” But if you’re just like; “Oh, this is what I eat because this is what makes me feel good,” and that’s all; no story to it. People might be like, “Oh, ok. She knows what she’s doing and I’ll move on to something else.” You know?

Angie Alt: Right. If you act with a lot of confidence; this is where my little phrase, “Don’t be weird” comes from. If you act out of a lot of confidence, and just like, “This is my day to day, no commentary necessary.” The people around you will come to respect it.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. Do you have any advice maybe, Angie, about how to work; I know a lot of people have had this question. How to find an autoimmune friendly career? Do you think it’s specifically a career; or do you think it’s the people you work with?

Angie Alt: Yeah. You know, it could probably be either or. I think there are careers out there that are probably more autoimmune friendly than others. And if you have an aptitude for those areas, then it might be a good idea to go for them if there’s a fit there to be had. For instance, you and I kind of forged these careers that allow us to take down time if we need to. That said, we’re always working like crazy people {laughing} because we’re too passionate for our own good, probably. But you know, we have the understanding of each other and there’s room there. If they can find similar arrangements; great.

On the other hand, I think having the right group of people around you can make all the difference. If you have supportive coworkers and a supportive boss, things like that, that can help, too. It might be the career; it might be the environment.

Mickey Trescott: And it also might be the information that you’ve given them. After I got fired from my coffee shop job that I was too tired to do, I applied to be a personal chef for a family. And the wife was a doctor. And I told her in my interview, I have celiac disease, I have Hashimoto’s disease. I’ve been through this health crisis. I am just on the up and up. I feel a little bit weird about putting it all out there, but I figured since you’re a doctor, maybe you can be gentle on me, kind of. Not that I wouldn’t be able to do the duties that she needed me to do, but at least she would understand from a physical perspective what was going on in my body. And that ended up being a really good working relationship. It wasn’t one that I could just take a day off when I wasn’t feeling well, but she saw me as someone who was trying very hard to meet my commitments; even on the days where she could tell I was tired, instead of saying, “This person is lazy and doesn’t work hard enough.” Because if your employer doesn’t know any better, they might jump to that conclusion. So sometimes a conversation can really help there.

4. Intolerance to foods on AIP [16:32]

Angie Alt: Right. Right. Ok, let’s see. Moving on. We have a bunch of questions about additional food sensitivities. This is something that comes up pretty often in our realm, right Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Oh yeah.

Angie Alt: So let’s see. The first question comes from Lucy in the London Sky. She says, “I have been on the AIP diet for around 18 months and it has helped heal my gut, reduce inflammation, and balanced out my hormones. The problem is that I am intolerant to most AIP compliant foods due to histamine response or FODMAP irritation or other reactions. I have to avoid fish, ferments, all meat including organ meats except for chicken and turkey, leafy greens, coconuts, and most raw veg. My diet is limited to say the least, and I am concerned about getting enough nutrients. What would you suggest?”

Mickey Trescott: So for Lucy I would suggest two things. One is, if you have an additional sensitivity that is due to a pathogenic overgrowth in your gut, like SIBO, you need to treat that STAT. Especially, it sounds like Lucy, you’ve got some really extreme issues with histamine. This is a really clear indicator that either you have SIBO, which is a given since you’re on the low-FODMAP approach, which helps manage symptoms of SIBO. It won’t treat SIBO. But I would also look into methylation dysfunction.

I would do that first. I would not try to do AIP with all of these layers and really restrict until you’re eating 3 foods. I would actually, if I was working with you as a client, took a history and everything, I would actually probably suggest an expanded approach to include some foods that might be some reintroductions, like some white rice, maybe some nuts and seeds depending on how you tolerate them. Maybe even eggs, just to see if you can get enough protein. Since you’re not tolerating the meat, you need a protein source. And it’s not safe for you to go long-term on just a few vegetables that you’re eating.

So the biggest thing for you is just going to be treating that SIBO. And this is something we see over and over with people who do the autoimmune protocol, they notice they have a reaction to FODMAPs, and what do they do? They go on a low-FODMAP AIP diet, and then they start layering histamines. Because this actually makes them feel better. But they’re not going to a doctor, getting a breath test, getting tested, and getting treated. This is how you get rid of SIBO. We were actually just at a conference with Dr. Allison Siebecker, who is one of the best experts in the world on SIBO. And she said in her presentation that she has seen 10,000 cases in the last 7 years and never has she seen a client get better with diet alone.

Angie Alt: You guys, we can’t say it enough. I think we’ve probably already said it on every single one of these Q&A podcasts. You cannot treat SIBO with diet alone. It won’t happen. Allison’s case history definitely proves that.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And so for Lucy, if you’re having SIBO that keeps recurring. Maybe she is getting it treated, and it’s coming back; she needs to be looking into some of those underlying causes. Dr. Siebecker has some great information about that. But she really needs to be working with someone to troubleshoot that.

And additionally, working with a nutritional therapy practitioner, health coach, or someone who is qualified to make some nutrition recommendations given your state, the autoimmune protocol is a very nutrient-dense diet and all the bases are covered. But when you start taking out a lot of proteins and a lot of these different foods that are the basis of the diet, I think there is a really high chance that you’re not getting some nutrients somewhere. So it would be important to get someone on your team as you navigate maybe a SIBO treatment and troubleshoot all of this stuff so that you can start to tolerate them. So once you go through SIBO treatment; or maybe you have methylation dysfunction. You could have both of them that are manifesting in this extreme histamine intolerance. Get that taken care of, then you can eat more foods and you can work on the bigger AIP autoimmune reducing the inflammation framework, if that makes sense.

Angie Alt: Yep. Yep. Totally agree. Hit that one out of the park.

5. Additional food sensitivities on AIP [20:30]

Mickey Trescott: So, Fallondenae says, “Any information on healing food sensitivities within AIP is appreciated. I’m eating about 8 foods, and I’m wondering if I should try a rotation diet instead. How do you heal the gut when you can’t do probiotics, bone broth, organ meats, fish, ferments, or leafy greens? Can you still eat food you’re sensitive to and heal?”

Angie Alt: Yeah, this kind of goes back to just the same exact answer we just gave Lucy in the London Sky. It sounds like there must be some underlying imbalance in the GI system somewhere, whether that’s SIBO or some other kind of dysbiosis; a parasite infection. Something is happening there that’s really decreasing your ability to eat foods, and causing all these additional sensitivities. So digging in and finding out what that underlying root cause is and treating it will help you expand your diet.

A lot of folks believe in the rotational diet and feel that that helps them in the food sensitivity situation. I’m not quite sure that I think that’s the best approach. I think the best approach is actually to heal what’s causing the problem rather than just rotate within a small amount of foods that are there.

Mickey Trescott: And I actually haven’t seen clients who are on pretty limited diets because of the above. Autoimmune protocol plus maybe some SIBO going on. They do get worried that they’re eating this diet for maybe one to two months while they’re treating, and I haven’t had a client come up sensitive to something they’re eating, like beef or chicken. It seems to be a rumor; maybe we can get Sarah Ballantyne or someone to give us some science why that is. But someone is starting a rumor, or has some information that says if you keep eating a food over and over and over, you’re going to develop an allergy or sensitivity to it. I just haven’t seen that practically.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Agree. I really haven’t seen that bore out with any of my clients, either. And I don’t really hear that being talked about by some of the really big named experts. So I would really be working on that underlying thing. You know, if you’re having some sensitivity to probiotics and bone broth.

Mickey Trescott: That sounds like histamine.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like some histamine stuff going on there. And sometimes bone broth can be a problem if you have SIBO. There is FODMAPs in the knuckle bones, so sometimes broth made with those kinds of bones might be causing a problem. SIBO and histamine are related, too.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Angie Alt: So if you have one, it can lead into the other problem. So digging in with some practitioners on those underliers.

Mickey Trescott: Another thing I would say is that it is possible to have sensitivities to foods that are on the autoimmune protocol. It is not a mind-reading program where it just kind of, everyone does it and it works for them. I would say the biggest one is actually coconut. And the reason why a lot of people go through their life they don’t know they’re sensitive to coconut is they don’t eat a lot of it, and then they go on the autoimmune protocol and they start cooking with coconut oil, using coconut milk instead of dairy, and using coconut flakes to make dessert, or whatever. And they’re eating all this coconut and they’re having an allergic reaction, it comes up. Obviously, if you have an allergy like that, you shouldn’t be eating the coconut. That’s not what we’re saying. But I would say that’s probably the most common food that is included on the autoimmune protocol that can be problematic for people.

Another issue is food sensitivity testing. And we’ve talked about this on the podcast before. I’m not going to give you the whole spiel. But basically, when you have a leaky gut, things that are not actual allergies or sensitivities will come up because your gut is leaky. That’s the whole definition of a leaky gut; things are getting into your immune system, triggering it, that aren’t supposed to be there. So when you have a food sensitivity test come back, and it has beef, and chicken, and coconut, and pineapple, and all these things on it; it just means that your gut is not in a good condition. And that’s why we actually don’t like relying on those food sensitivity tests, and instead doing a gut-healing protocol for 30, 60, 90 days, see where we get, take all the major triggers out. Then we can kind of further trouble shoot. So that’s what I have to say about that.

6. White rice after reintroduction [24:44]

Angie Alt: Yep. Ok. Let’s see. We’re moving on here. White rice. We have some questions from AsaMarchelinas; am I saying that right? She says, “Is white rice ok if a reintro goes well? Or better to avoid things like white rice, seed spices, etc., just to be safe?” OK. Mickey, can I take this one?

Mickey Trescott: You got it.

Angie Alt: Definitely don’t avoid things if it has gone well for you. If you have tried to reintroduce these foods and it has gone really well for you, you’ve waited the 72 hours between reintroductions and no reactions have popped up, this is wonderful!

Mickey Trescott: Yay!

Angie Alt: You have had a successful reintroduction. You should start enjoying that food in your diet again. The point of the autoimmune protocol is not to stay in restriction forever “Just to be safe.” We’re not encouraging that. That wasn’t the point of the protocol. The point is to remove triggers, get your whole system to calm down, and then try to bring them back, eventually personalizing the diet. You know, whatever you have come up with with the white rice and the seed spices, it’s what works for your body and you should enjoy it.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I don’t like the word, “safe.” I think it’s a word that doesn’t really; it’s hard to say that these foods are unsafe. Except for gluten, I would say. Safety is kind of one of those things, it conjures up a little bit too much for those foods we’re eliminating. And white rice, you know, isn’t even paleo. Or some people say it’s kind of paleo. But that’s kind of where we differ from the dogmatic paleo movement. It’s not about just not eating grains because we’re not eating grains. If white rice works for you; of course it is a starchy carb, and some people with blood sugar issues or nutrient deficiencies or whatever to do to eat something else. It would be better for them. But you don’t need to not eat it if it works for you out of “safety.” It’s not a generally; I would say, as long as it’s not replacing all of the other things you should be eating, like bone broth, and organ meats, and meat and vegetables, and everything. Yeah, it’s safe.

Angie Alt: Yeah. This is awesome. Congratulations.

7. Epstein-Barr and Hashimoto’s [27:05]

Mickey Trescott: So, It’s Me, Sue, says, “I am so thankful for all you do, Mickey and Angie. You’re both real gifts to this world.” Thank you, Sue.

Angie Alt: Aww. Thank you.

Mickey Trescott: “I’d love to hear about EBV,” And that stands for Epstein-Barr virus. “As a root cause/trigger for Hashimoto’s and possible treatment protocols for EBV. After struggling with the symptoms of Hashimoto’s since age 12, I’m now 34, and researching like a crazy person, I think I found my root cause.” Yay! “I’m so looking forward to going after the EBV, crazy elevated markers on blood work, for latent and active, so my thyroid antibodies will finally subside. I’m not sure where to start.” Alright. So I’m happy to take this one Angie. {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs} Go for it!

Mickey Trescott: So, there is a little bit of a misconception about EBV and Hashimoto’s. There are some loud voices in the community that are kind of trying to sell Epstein-Barr as this root cause of Hashimoto’s, and once you take care of it, everything magically goes better. I’m sorry to tell you Sue, that’s a little bit what it sounds like you think is going to happen here. If you take care of this EBV, your antibodies go down, your fatigue will be gone, and your Hashi’s will not bother you anymore. While that could certainly happen, in my experience, there isn’t really any one root cause that unlocks anyone’s illness. It’s usually a variety of things. And Epstein-Barr can be a part of the picture for you, obviously if you have elevated markers on your blood work, that’s something that you need to address. But I would also say that working on a proper dose of medication if that’s something you need, dialing in your diet, doing these lifestyle changes, cleaning up your gut if you have any gut infections.

What EBV really says to me, when I see a client that comes with these markers, is actually that they have some unresolved issues with stress that they’re not dealing with. So, Epstein-Barr is actually something that we all have. We’re all exposed to it. I think, maybe not all of us. I think the rate is like 95% or 98% by the time your 30. So it’s something that most of us have latent in our systems. If you were a teenager and you got mono, you know what the acute version of EBV feels like.

But what happens is once the body deals with it, it’s just kind of hanging out there. And if we go through a situation where maybe there’s a lot of stress, the immune system is under a lot of pressure. So think not only an autoimmune disease, hello Hashimoto’s, but also an autoimmune disease that affects the thyroid, which affects energy and metabolism, which then affects the adrenal glands, which, surprise, affects your stress levels. So it’s all kind of this vicious cycle where it tanks your immune system, you’re stressed out internally. We’re not talking about your job or your spouse, or whatever. We’re talking about your body actually has a lot of stress because it’s dealing with an autoimmune disease and your immune system is not functioning properly. That is a perfect situation for a chronic virus that you got when you were a kid to kind of rear its ugly head.

So with Epstein-Barr, I don’t necessarily think, “What do I need to do to treat the Epstein-Barr?” I think, “Why did this client get Epstein-Barr? What kind of stressors are in their life, dietary lifestyle, whatever. And how can we help their thyroid to prop the whole system up and get them, from a holistic perspective, to feel better?” Angie, actually, has a little story about Epstein-Barr, right?

Angie Alt: Yeah. So, a couple of summers ago while Mickey and I were working on writing our book, and we were super busy with that, super busy with lots of other projects. And you know, I’m a mom too, and a wife, and I’ve got all those kind of commitments. And I have three autoimmune diseases. So I have that already kind of underlying white noise of stress going on, right? So all of that together, and boom. I came down with this fever that wouldn’t resolve. I started feeling super, super fatigued. I was like, “Mickey, I don’t know what’s going on, I need to go to the doctor. I’ve got this super crazy sore throat.” I went to the doctor, and guess what? I had mono. So I had the acute version of EBV. But my markers showed that that virus had been hanging around for a while. What happened is that my immune system took a little bit of a crash because the stress wasn’t very well managed.

Mickey Trescott: And you tried nightshades, too.

Angie Alt: Yeah. And I tried some nightshades; a nightshade reintroduction during that time. I tried some bell peppers. And they certainly sent the immune system into the ever quickening downward spiral. So combined, all those things, that kind of latent, hanging out EBV became a little more acute. And I had to deal with that for about a month. Once I took care of myself better, managed some stress better, got past a failed reintroduction attempt, everything evened right out again. And you know what, the EBV markers are still there. But I am not experiencing the acute issue anymore. And just like Mickey said; if you get a client coming to you with this, you’re wondering more like, “What can we do to support the immune system?”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I would think basically everything we say from the beginning of this podcast. Just dialing in the diet, make sure you’re not eating anything that’s irritating your digestion. Making sure you’re eating a lot of nutrients. The immune system is dependent on nutrients, so you need to have a good level of vitamin D. You need to have a good level of zinc, vitamin A, K2; all of these fat-soluble vitamins. Eating a great diet. Not having crazy blood sugar swings. Make sure you’re managing your stress. Sleeping. And a word of caution; there are some anti-viral supplements. They’re not the first thing I would go to because, like Angie resolved her EBV without really resorting to any supplementation. But monolaurin; there’s a supplement called lauricidin that can be really effective. You want to be careful of immune stimulating herbs. This is something that a lot of practitioners, if you go to a naturopath, they might put you on an anti-viral blend. Which a lot of them have ashwagandha, astragalus, Echinacea. Which you definitely want to avoid, because they’re either nightshades or they’re very stimulating to the immune system. Which can actually cause your autoimmune disease to flare. So, especially someone with Hashimoto’s, I’d be very careful of that department. But I would just really try to improve your nutrient status and manage that stress.

Angie Alt: Yeah, exactly. I knew about some of these supplements that I could take that are anti-viral, but in the end I didn’t even have to resort to them. I just dialed down the stress, got some more rest. I kind of went back to elimination phase for a little while to help my body recover from a failed reintroduction. And by the way; a side note right here for everybody who is listening. Don’t everybody now say, “Oh my god, we can’t reintroduce any of the nightshades, because Angie said she got mono from it!” That’s just what happened for me particularly in that situation, and there was a lot of other stuff going on to contribute to that. I don’t want people to be afraid of reintroductions. Like we just said on the white rice and seed spices question; try those reintros, that’s the point.

Mickey Trescott: Well, and you know, bell peppers are stage 4.

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: Which, you’ve been AIP for almost 5 years now, and you’re just starting to reintroduce those. So it’s all a part of the process.

Angie Alt: Right.

8. Intense protein cravings [34:46]

Mickey Trescott: So our next question is about protein cravings, from LescaProtoPets. “Is it normal to experience intense cravings for protein? Any meat or fish doesn’t seem to satisfy the craving, and I wonder if it’s a hormonal imbalance, or a side effect on the autoimmune protocol.”

Angie Alt: Hmm. I mean, when I think about this, hormonal imbalance isn’t necessarily the first thing that comes to my mind. I wonder, Lesca, if you come from; maybe you came into the AIP from a vegan or vegetarian background? Or maybe a really low protein background? I think your body might be just telling you, “Hey we like protein! Thank you for giving it to us. How about some more.” {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, there’s definitely some wisdom to listening to your body in that. I mean, obviously if your body is telling you to eat cupcakes, we kind of know what’s going on there.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: But a craving for protein is usually a nutrient deficiency.

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: When I was vegan, I actually craved nuts really, really bad. Because I think that’s how I was getting a lot of those minerals; the zinc and selenium and vitamin E and stuff that I wasn’t getting from eating meat. And then when I started eating meat, I lost my craving for nuts, and start craving meat even more intensely for about a year. And I ate a little bit more meat than I advise most people to eat on the autoimmune protocol for that first year, maybe year and a half. Just because I was craving it and it was obviously working for me. I think I had to kind of make up for lost time. So definitely, if she has that background, that could be something that’s going on there.

Angie Alt: Yeah. I mean, for a compare and contrast here, I didn’t come into an AIP from a vegan or vegetarian background like Mickey, and I loved my meals and I was happy eating AIP, but I did not experience that protein craving. Probably because I wasn’t quite as depleted in that area.

Some other thing to explore; maybe there’s some anemia going on here. A B12 deficiency. I would think about the kinds of nutrients that you can get from meat, and maybe dig a little deeper, with your doctor’s help, to see if there’s something there that needs to be looked into.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I think that’s great. Alright, so our time is up for answering questions today. Thank you guys so much for submitting. We really hope that you guys learned a lot over the course of this episode. We hope you guys have a great day wherever in the world you’re at. And we will see you next week. We have our very last personal interview for season 2. That’s going to be with Angie, so this is my last episode with you guys for season 2. It’s been a pleasure to hang out with you guys. And we’ll talk soon.

Angie Alt: Bye!

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 6‘s interview features one of the most captivating stories of AI recovery we’ve ever heard. Jolaine Weins is recovering from a rare, arthritis-related autoimmune condition called ankylosing spondylitis. Following her initial symptom discovery, Jolaine waited 22 years to receive a diagnosis, all the while visiting countless practitioners and living in debilitating pain and lethargy.

Shockingly, it wasn’t a practitioner but a social media post that finally pointed Jolaine in the right direction. Her story is one of the most powerful testaments to the importance of self-advocacy we’ve ever heard. You’ll want to listen to every fascinating detail! Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Jolaine’s diagnostic journey [2:33]
2. Reaction of friends and family to the diagnosis [16:31]
3. Low points on the journey [21:20]
4. First action step towards health [24:08]
5. Results on AIP [28:42]
6. Lifestyle changes [34:43]
7. Standout supporters [40:04]
8. Takeaway points [43:42]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast season two. This is Mickey with you guys today, and I’m interviewing a very special friend of mine. We go way back in the autoimmune wellness journey. I first became aware of her almost, gosh, 6 years ago, through Sarah Ballantyne’s blog and Facebook. She was a very early member of the AIP community. Her name is Jolaine, and she has ankylosing spondylitis.

So, we’ve heard from you guys that you find it really helpful to hear from these people who have taken on this healing journey in real life. I couldn’t think of a better example than someone like Jolaine. She’s been so kind to agree to interview with me to share with you guys a little bit about her story. So thank you so much, Jolaine, for joining us from your home country of Canada. Are you ready to get started?

Jolaine: Thank you Mickey. I am.

1. Jolaine’s diagnostic journey [2:33]

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. So, first thing’s first. We know that you have ankylosing spondylitis. But really; what was the first symptom, first thing that you noticed that something was wrong?

Jolaine: I think I first noticed; I was about 21 years old, and I was just at work and I had all of a sudden a really sharp shooting pain at my leg into my pelvis area, and my sacrum joint, which is where the disease kind of starts. And that sort of just continued off and on. I just thought it was something wrong with my back. I used to walk to work, and I remember one day, I couldn’t walk the last block. I had to take the bus for one block. And that was, “Ok, something’s really wrong.”

Mickey Trescott: Whoa. Yeah, that’s pretty debilitating when you can’t walk a block. In that moment, how did you feel having to wait for the bus? Were you like, “I need to call my doctor.” Or what was going through your mind?

Jolaine: You know, I honestly just thought maybe I’m out of shape. {laughs} I don’t know. I really didn’t think that it was something that serious.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: You know, I thought maybe I needed a trip to the chiropractor, or maybe I should exercise some more. Probably the normal thoughts that would go through anyone’s head. It never occurred to me it was a disease of any kind.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, especially when you’re young and you really haven’t had anything happen to you like that. I think our tendency is definitely to just be like; “Well, if I can just get through this, it will go away.” Or something.

Jolaine: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: So from that first noticing those sharp pains, how long did it take until you actually got your diagnosis in? What was that process like?

Jolaine: It took 22 years.

Mickey Trescott: Oh my gosh!

Jolaine: And that was; yeah.

Mickey Trescott: That’s a long time. That’s probably one of the longer time frames I’ve ever heard.

Jolaine: Yeah. So, that was a good chunk of my life, and it was horrible. It was a horrible 22 years. And oddly enough, the first year after my diagnosis was even worse. So, it was really difficult. I mean, like a lot of people with autoimmune, your doctors, your family, your circle of friends, your coworkers, they just think you’re a hypochondriac. Because, I mean the list of symptoms is so long. And even to hear myself say to somebody, “Well this hurts, and this happens, and this happens.” To myself, I sounded like a little excessive, you know?

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: It didn’t seem like it was a real thing. So I went to; I couldn’t even count the doctors and specialists and different diagnoses I was given in the meantime in that 22 years. I had a lot of disability; probably years of my life in bed in horrible pain, with no help whatsoever.

Mickey Trescott: What were you told when you went in? Did you get misdiagnosed? Was that part of the reason? Why do you think it took so long?

Jolaine: I think it’s a typical story. I had skeletal pain, so I was sent to a rheumatologist. I had digestive issues, so I also saw a gastroenterologist. I also had hormone issues, so I was also seeing an endocrinologist. It seems that every specialist I went to, I had their disease, or their issue. So you’re told you have IBS, and arthritis, and you’re too skinny, that’s why you don’t have your period. All these different diagnoses. But in my gut, I always knew these are connected. I’m one person, I’m one body. I need one doctor that will look at the whole picture; not just that it hurts here, or this isn’t working. You know?

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. So what was the final doctor that made the connection. How did that come about?

Jolaine: It actually wasn’t a doctor that figured it out in the end. There were a few tests along the way that kind of led me towards the diagnosis; but the final sort of conclusion or thing that sort of propelled me to find out what it was was Facebook. The pain that I had shooting up my leg, the original one, that sort of kept coming back over the years; I thought it was something with my foot. At the time, I wore high heels to work, and I thought it was something wrong with my food and wearing high heels. So I was at a podiatrist, and he was asking me a bunch of questions to determine if I would heal well after a surgery. Because as it turns out, I’m missing a small little bone in my foot, and he thought if we did this surgery, it would get better.

So after a series of questions, he said to me, “I don’t think by your answers that you’d be a good candidate for surgery. I don’t think you’d heal really well and it’s not going to benefit you. But I’m curious to know what your rheumatoid markers are like, and if you happen to carry this particular gene; HLAB27.” Which meant nothing to me, whatsoever. So I’m like, sure whatever. Let’s do a blood test.

So it came back positive. I have this gene. And my rheumatoid markers were slightly elevated. And he said, “This isn’t a big deal. You might want to check this again in 5 or 10 years and see if its’ changed any.” And at the time, I was very sick. And I look back, and I think, it’s not my personality to go straight home and start Googling that, and figure out what is this gene, and what does that mean? But I think because I was just so overwhelmed with how I felt, I just kind of filed that in my head and never did anything with it.

So then one day on Facebook, a friend of mine just wrote the strangest Facebook status. It said, “I am HLAB27 negative.” Which, probably, to most people meant nothing. So as soon as I read that, I was like, “Hey, that’s that gene that I had.” So I private messaged her. I was like, “I’m curious; why did you write that?” And she said, “3 of my sisters have AS.” I wrote back, and said, “I don’t know what that is. What is AS?” She answered, “Ankylosing spondylitis.” So I Googled it, and I had the entire list of symptoms. And I just knew, when I read that. “That’s it! That’s got to be it.”

So all of the health care professionals I had in my life at that time; chiropractor, physiotherapist, rheumatologist, my GP, my naturopath; all of them said, “No, you don’t have that. You don’t fit the description.” But I still felt like, “Yeah I do.” I know that I’m still flexible, and I’m still mobile, and I can do all these things. But I feel what it says there. So I asked my GP for a referral to a specialist, and that took 9 months to get in.

Mickey Trescott: Whoa.

Jolaine: So I went to that specialist finally, after 9 months, and I said, “I have this gene. These are my symptoms. I think I have AS. What can we test me for this?” So he did some really, really simple tests. “Bend this way, bend forward, do this, do that. Tell me how you feel.” And he also said, “I really don’t think by looking at you and doing all of these hands-on exams that you have it. I really don’t.” And for the first time in 22 years, a doctor said, “But, I hear what you’re saying, I see this blood test. It’s just going to be a simple x-ray. Let’s do it.” And I felt like that was the first time someone actually heard what I said.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: And that was really pivotal. So he took the x-ray, and it came back. And he goes, “Yeah. Sure enough, you have it, and it looks like you’ve had it for about 20 years.” And I said, “Yep. Yep, that’s about right.”

Mickey Trescott: Wow.

Jolaine: And that was it. Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: Wow. That is just incredible. You know, incredible just because it’s so common for us to really feel intuitively that there is something wrong, and to be told; especially as a young woman. I think we’re a little bit; we’ve experienced this personally. I experienced my illness in my 20s. But when you go into the doctor’s office, and you’re a normal weight, and you’re kind of a cute young girl; they kind of go, “Oh, maybe you’re depressed. Maybe it’s in your head.”

Jolaine: Yeah!

Mickey Trescott: I cannot even imagine. I was told that for a year, and I was going out of my mind. I can’t imagine 22 years.

Jolaine: Yeah, so many people were like, “Here, you need antidepressants.” So many things like that. And I was always, genetically, on the low end of the weight scale. So automatically that was a thing, too. It was, “Oh, you just need to gain weight. You’re deficient in nutrients. You’re not eating enough.” Things like that. But even he said; “You are not typical at all of any patient that I have.” And I think that’s probably because all of those 22 years, I still tried to do what I thought was the best thing with food, exercise, and sleep. So that probably really helped me. And I also knew that I had a really low bone density in my 20s. So I was trying to eat, and live, for that as well. So that probably all cumulatively really helped me. But I told him in that appointment, “Whatever your textbook says about AS and my future, you can throw it away when it comes to me. I’m not typical in anything, and I don’t intent to end up where your textbook says I will.”

Mickey Trescott: I love that. You are on fire. But you know, you figured it out. And how empowering is that to just; that sequence of events. Finding out from a podiatrist that you have a genetic marker, and then a friend posting on Facebook, and then basically researching online, figuring out, “I probably have this disease.” All the things that had to happen to make you get there. Of course you told him that he couldn’t count on you just being a textbook case. {laughs} That’s a pretty incredible story.

Jolaine: And you go through so many different doctors, and so much vulnerability, and so much; almost, I don’t know, maybe abuse is a strong word, but sometimes it feels like it the way that you’re treated. That you get to the point where you understand 100%; if I don’t speak for myself, nobody will.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Jolaine: You have to be your own advocate. You have to say, “This is what I want, and this is what I know.”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And you have a unique experience as the person who is feeling those symptoms, and whose body is physically expressing itself in that way. You deeply come to that understanding that it’s all you. All these people, they can give you information; they can try to help, but I think a lot of the way that people view the medical profession and in turn the same way that they treat us; especially chronically ill patients. Yeah, abuse is not too strong of a word {laughs}. It’s almost; you have to heal from that. I don’t know what your experience was like, but I knew that it took me a little while to gain my respect back for the medical profession after.

I had a similar experience where I found out about Hashimoto’s, I read about it, I knew I had it, and I had to go through 6 doctors who told me, “No, no, no, no, no,” until I found the one, “Yes, actually, I did the test, you have it.” I was pretty pissed at the whole conventional medical system. And it probably took me a year or two to get back to the place where I was like; you know, there are good doctors out there. They get into this because they want to help, and I just have to figure out how to find the right one and how to communicate and how to advocate for myself properly.

Jolaine: And I don’t think that ends. I’m still experiencing that at times, where a doctor doesn’t believe you. That just happened to me over Thanksgiving last year, and I ended up writing a 4-page letter to the emergency doctor at my local hospital just for the way they treated me, for the misunderstanding. And not in a hope of getting out my own anger, but to give her perspective on, “The next time you come across somebody like me, this is what you need to know. After we leave the hospital, this is what happens that you don’t see.” That kind of thing.

I think to my disadvantage, as well. I’ve been told I don’t express pain outwardly very visibly, and that was to my disadvantage. Because I’d sit there and say, well I’m in a 9/10 pain right now. But I say it calmly, and I’m not crying, and I don’t display it well. So that was to my disadvantage. But then on the flip side of that, if you go into a doctor’s office displaying it, and you’re crying, and you’re emotional, then they say, “Well you need antidepressants.” So there’s really no win there.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Yeah. This is a problem that people with autoimmune disease and chronic illness know well. We appear quite normal, and a lot of times we’ve gone through so many years of learning to build up that resilience, and kind of keep it all in, and keep it together when really inside we could be really suffering. It’s really hard to communicate that.

Jolaine: Yeah.

2. Reaction of friends and family to the diagnosis [16:31]

Mickey Trescott: How did your friends and family react to your diagnosis and finding out about this? Were they like, “Oh wow! There really was something!” How did that go?

Jolaine: You know, there was no really big huge reaction. I think partly because it’s not a disease people have heard of. So if I were to say to them, “I have cancer.” Or, “I have diabetes.” Something they’ve heard of, then the response might have been a little bit different. But people, if they’ve never experienced illness. I even had people say, “Is there a medication that will cure it?” Well, no. Medication isn’t a cure, ever, for anything. So there are a few people that are close to me, like my sisters, and my parents, and my husband, and “I’m really sorry.” and they’d Google it, read about it, try to understand it. So that was really nice. There’s validation in that.

I naively thought that a lot of the people that really mistreated me might say, “Oh, I’m sorry. I never treated you right. I didn’t give you grace. I wasn’t kind.” Or whatever. And when that didn’t happen, that was disappointing. But that was also a learning experience to me too. Maybe if they’re not even now accepting that, or accepting their own role in what might have been really difficult for me, maybe I need to distance myself a little bit from that for my own health.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I think that’s actually, sadly, very common. And I hope if anyone is listening to this, and you know you’ve had that similar experience, you’re not alone. Because I think we kind of get mistreated by a lot of people in our life, and we have this validating experience. Sometimes it’s only validating to us {laughs}. Other people don’t go, “Oh, wow! That’s what’s going on? Ok, I am so sorry.” No.

Jolaine: Yeah. I did actually have one apology. I ended up writing a letter to people on Facebook, kind of saying this is what I’ve been through. And if you happen to know somebody in your life who has anything similar to this, treat them this way, say this not that, give them grace, believe their truth. That kind of thing. And, “If for some reason this letter that I’m writing to you is offensive, why? The chances are, the reason you find it offensive is because you’re guilty of that.” And after I wrote that, I did get one apology from an extended family member. And that meant the world to me. Honestly; all of the physical pain that I’ve been through I would say pales in comparison of the emotional pain of people who are close to you not accepting, or not being kind.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: And it would simply take, “I’m sorry.” That’s really all I think that’s required. So that did mean a lot to me.

Mickey Trescott: Wow. Do you think there’s something about connecting with other people, especially who have had this experience? I have had a lot of women in my life that I’ve found have kind of experienced this. You’re able to have a friendship on a different level than I think people that haven’t experience pain.

Jolaine: Yeah. 100%. I think there’s something incredibly powerful about connecting with someone; whether that’s in person or online who actually, really, really gets it. When they really understand what it means when you say, “I’m tired.”

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: “I’m so tired.”

Mickey Trescott: It’s not because you stayed up to 2 in the morning drinking with your friends, and you had to go to work at 7. That’s not what we’re talking about. {laughs}

Jolaine: Yeah. Like the tired that feels like every word and every motion is, I’m underwater. And even trying to listen to you talk to me right now, it’s like we’re underwater, and I’m trying to process what you’re saying. When you meet people who really get that, it’s a moment. It’s a huge moment. And I have two sisters with autoimmune diseases. My oldest sister has Crohn’s, and she’s been through so much and really understands that. That’s been really helpful; hopefully for both of us, but certainly for me.

3. Low points on the journey [21:20]

Mickey Trescott: Can you describe, Jolaine, some of the physical experiences, what you experienced when you were diagnosed. What was your; basically what was your low point? How did that feel for you?

Jolaine: The low-point before I was diagnosed? Or how I felt actually?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, just in your illness. Just, when it was at its worst, what were some of the symptoms that you had?

Jolaine: At its worst, I was completely disabled and immobile. All I could move was my arms, really. Even just lifting my head was extreme pain. And that would last; I think the longest was close to 6 months. Around 5-6 months. And, a person can only take so much. And I think because I didn’t know what was wrong. So you’re lying there, alone, with no medical help, or validation of any kind. In horrible pain with not assistance more than Tylenol for that. And no sleep. And hardly, really, being able to eat. Because that means you’ve got to get up to make something, right? So I definitely do remember being suicidal, specifically one particular night. I would say it was the strongest then. It’s only by the grace of god that I made it through that night. And if it wasn’t for; I just thought about how some other people I was close to would cope with that. That I didn’t.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Jolaine, thank you for sharing that. I think it’s a very vulnerable thing to admit. But I think that is something that a lot of us that have struggled with chronic pain in our deepest darkest moments definitely wrestle with that. I think some people listening; if you’re there, try to reach out to some people in your life and get some support. Because it’s not uncommon. That is how real some of that pain is. Especially when you’re having the same experience of going into a doctor’s office and having them tell you it’s all in your head. I mean, how deflating and demoralizing is that?

Jolaine: Yeah. Just a complete loss of hope. Like, an entire loss of hope. And I don’t think anyone can continue living if you have zero hope at all.

4. First action step towards health [24:08]

Mickey Trescott: I totally agree. So, to transition a little bit. What was the first action step that you started to take towards managing this condition? I know you kind of figured out over that long diagnosis period some things; you had kind of a healthier lifestyle. But once you got that diagnosis, were you offered any treatment? What was kind of the first thing that you did that started to get you on the road to recovery?

Jolaine: Well, around the time that I was diagnosed was really close to around the time that I discovered the autoimmune protocol. So when my rheumatologist confirmed with my diagnosis, kind of like any other doctor. If you don’t do what they say, you can’t be their patient. So I was kind of walking this thin line where I had discovered the autoimmune protocol. I know that the standard drugs are probably going to be harmful because those are prescription NSAIDs, which as I learned, contribute to leaky gut. But if I don’t follow what he says, then I don’t really have a doctor on my side to help me through this in any way, through my future as well. And I really, really valued him. So I wanted to respect his prescription for me, but I also wanted to do what I was learning was best for me.

So that first year, the reason I said it was the worst was because I agreed to the drugs. I said to him, “I’ll try it.” But I hadn’t actually said aloud yet, “I don’t think they’re good for me. I found this diet.” I hadn’t said that aloud to him. So for the first year, I tried 4 different NSAIDs. And within 48 hours; maybe 24 hours of each one, I couldn’t walk. And it would take me two to three months until I would recover from that. And then he would say, “Ok, let’s try this.” So we’d do it again. That process took a year, until I went through, I think it was 4 different drugs. And at the end of that he said, “Ok, we’re going to try biologics.” Which I wasn’t willing to try. By that time, I had learned the side effects and the risks of those.

So that’s when I said to him, “I discovered this autoimmune protocol. I don’t want to do the drugs anymore. We both saw they didn’t work. I would really love it if you would just follow me on this journey and see if it helps.” And he said, “Most doctors would just say you can’t be my patient anymore, then.” And I said, “I get that, but there’s nothing required from you except we’ll do a blood test once a year and see what’s happening.” So he compromised. He said, “Ok. You’ll come once a year, we’ll check your blood test, we’ll do an MRI. If there is any progression in fusion in your spine, then we’re going to do it my way.” And I said ok.

The very first thing I did when I discovered Sarah’s website is I got on my crutches, and I went to my local organic grocery store and I bought bones. And I had tears streaming down my face, I could hardly move, but I made bone broth. And I think for about two weeks, that’s all I could eat. And that was the very first thing I did.

Mickey Trescott: I love it. I mean, you know I don’t love the year that you spent in pain, but I think your account of how you gained the respect of a conventional doctor, and it was unfortunate that it took both of you so long to get to that conclusion. But I think the way that you approached it in that moment of, kind of in between the treatment that was tried and the treatment that was being proposed. You gave what he offered a fair shot, and it obviously didn’t work. I think that is a really great example of how to work with what you learned about online, and the current medical situation that you were in. Which is kind of in that in-between. Like, ok I can go with the biologics, but let’s try this first. But also, you got your doctor on board. I’m sure it was not easy, but good for you, Jolaine, advocating for yourself and making that choice there.

Jolaine: Yeah.

5. Results on AIP [28:42]

Mickey Trescott: What happened? {laughs} I’m curious. I don’t know this part of your story. How did that go for you? Tell me a little bit about the beginning of AIP and some of the first things that made you realize that that was the right track?

Jolaine: Well, I think because I had had health trouble for so long, and had seen other naturopaths and doctors along the way who had given me advice on what to eat and what not to eat, I had already eliminated. Partly from what they said, and partly from what I felt in my body when I ate different foods. So I had eliminated already gluten, and dairy, and just kind of random things here and there. So the transition to AIP from where I was wasn’t huge. There wasn’t a lot more that I had to change. It was more of a focus of what I needed to add rather than subtract.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. Like that broth?

Jolaine: Right. Like bone broth. The organ meat thing, which is still a struggle, but I’m getting there. And learning more about the importance of sleep, and stress, and how that impacts me. So those sorts of things were huge in making changes. And then natural anti-inflammatories; learning about turmeric, for instance. That was something that I really noticed made a difference.

Mickey Trescott: How long did you do the elimination diet formally? I know back in that time there wasn’t a lot of information. Like now, we have a specific protocol, you do it for a certain amount of time. You do reintroductions a certain way. But a lot of people don’t realize that back then the autoimmune protocol there were just these threads of ideas of what people could do. What kind of thing did you do? How long did you follow it? Did you reintroduce foods? That kind of thing.

Jolaine: Well when I first started it, I didn’t even understand that it was meant to be sort of semi-temporary, and then you reintroduce. So I just had my list of yes and no foods, and that’s what I followed. It was quite a while before I realized, “Oh, people are reintroducing.” So I think now, I’d say it’s still very fluid. I know that I don’t do well with grain, and people with AS in general don’t do well with starch, so that’s kind of a consistent. I don’t intend to try and reintroduce those. I can tolerate a little bit of white rice, things like that.

But I say it’s fluid, because if I end up in a flare, and I’ve reintroduced eggs for instance, and black pepper. If I’m in a flare, then I pull back on those and then they’re gone for a while again. And then when I start to feel better, then I can reintroduce them. So it’s always back and forth between how I’m feeling and what I know might be so good at that moment in flare.

Mickey Trescott: How long did it take before you were like, “This is really working. This is what I need to do.”

Jolaine: Once I started that bone broth, that was monumental.

Mickey Trescott: It was that fast.

Jolaine: Oh, yes. I had been in bed for 4 months. So in that 4 months, I was on my iPhone Googling ankylosing spondylitis plus whatever. Plus food, plus diet, plus whatever. And that’s how I discovered it, was on my iPhone. So when I started the bone broth, I would say within the first week I was moving again. I was up and walking.

Mickey Trescott: Wow. That’s incredible.

Jolaine: It was pretty quick.

Mickey Trescott: Wow. And then further changes. Did you go back to your doctor and have some blood work? What were the results there?

Jolaine: Well, after we had made the compromise, I did have the MRI and blood work. My MRI showed that I have no fusion in my spine. Which is what the end results of this disease is, your spine fuses together, amongst other things that can happen. So I have no fusion. Considering the amount of years that I’ve had it, and I was undiagnosed and untreated specifically for it, he said that was quite a miracle. And then the blood tests; my most recent ones show that they couldn’t even measure any antibodies in my blood. So that’s pretty significant.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs} I’d say.

Jolaine: Yeah {laughs}. But again, that can change from week to week. I just went through a traumatic life event. We had a death in our family, as you know, and I’m in a little bit of a flare right now. Considering what I went through, I’m pretty impressed that I’m still walking. I’d say it was a huge win to make it through this. So again, that’s always something that’s changing. But those were the two tests that kind of really confirmed I’m on the right track.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Jolaine: I had no fusion, my inflammation markers were really low and manageable; to me that’s evidence enough.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. The antibodies are always a really good sign, because a lot of us, especially those of us who have had an autoimmune process. I suspect that I’ve had Hashimoto’s for almost 20 years now, based on kind of my early symptoms when I was a teenager. And if you think your body has been making antibodies for that long, there’s going to be some damage that you’re going to have to deal with for the rest of your life. And just getting those antibodies down, either very low, or zero if that’s in the cards for you, that means maybe you can maintain your current state of health for the rest of your life. Which, that is a win for people with autoimmune disease. Usually we get sicker and sicker as we get older, and then things get more complicated. So just being able to kind of restore that, knowing that your immune system is functioning well, that’s really good.

Jolaine: Yeah.

6. Lifestyle changes [34:43]

Mickey Trescott: Talk to me about some of your lifestyle changes. Because you talk a little bit about kind of dialing in that stuff. It sounds like with the pain you were really not sleeping initially. Tell me about the things you’ve found most helpful in your healing journey in that area.

Jolaine: I think that lifestyle changes; the amount of research and information coming out in the last couple of years about sleep and stress has been huge. I mean, I always knew those were big, but I don’t think I understood how big. And also the connection between the microbiome, as well, and understanding the gut-brain axis, healing your gut, all of that kind of thing. So I think I’ve placed a lot more emphasis on keeping my stress levels manageable if I can, and putting sleep as a priority, and keeping movement as a priority, as well. And nature, too. Being outside, I find really helpful.

Mickey Trescott: You’re telling us our book. {laughs}

Jolaine: {laughing}

Mickey Trescott: You’ve figured out all the same stuff we’ve figured out, Jolaine. How is this possible? It’s possible because it works, and we know that. But talk to me about the things that you do to help you sleep properly. What did that look like for you? Are there any supplements, or routines, or anything that help you find good sleep?

Jolaine: That’s still an ongoing learning thing. I’m type A, like most people are with autoimmune, so I measure the success of a day by productivity. So my brain is always going 100 miles an hour. So when I go to bed, I have a really, really hard time shutting that down. So some of the things that I’ve had to do is; I stopped answering my phone, and stopped answering any sort of messages of any kind as much as I possibly can a few hours before I go to bed. I have a time I look at the clock and I’m like, “Ok, I’ve got to shut it down. Stop working, stop folding your laundry. Just stop, and physically try to slow down.”

Some of the supplements that really helped me; I find magnesium is really great before I go to bed. Taking collagen before I go to bed. More of it is just physically trying to slow it all down, because I’m a fast-paced moving person. But I’m still struggling with that. I really just got the Oura ring that Sarah was talking about.

Mickey Trescott: I read about that. Do you like it?

Jolaine: I do like it. I’m kind of a nerd; I like the data that it’s giving me on my sleep. I wake up and I see one day I’ve had an hour and half of deep sleep, and the next day it’s like a minute, and I’m like, “What? What happened?”

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: So I find that really interesting. But that’s still an ongoing thing. I struggle a lot with getting good quality sleep. I’m a sleep walker, I sleep talk, so that’s something I’m trying to figure out. What’s triggering that, why does it come and go. It’s really interesting to see the data in my heart rate, going through this death in the family and how my sleep quality changed then. I was able to see that with the ring, and show my husband. Like, “Look, I’m telling you! It actually makes a difference.” Sleep really affects me. You kind of want the people in your life to be like, “I hear you. I get it.”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, because their experience of you don’t really change much unless you speak up and you have something to show them. I think I’ve had a similar experience with my husband where sometimes it’s really hard for me to share with him if something is getting better or worse; how those symptoms or those feelings. You can feel your heart racing, but you might not be like, “Ok it’s racing now! Ok, 15 minutes later it’s racing really fast now!” That’s not what we do. So that’s really interesting that data can help show that.

Jolaine: I can show him, like the few days before this event my resting heart rate at night was at 53. Then the day we got the bad news, my heart rate was 73, and that remained consistent for about a week. To be able to see that is pretty cool.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Cool. Well, you know, sleep and stress management I know we talked about it a lot on the podcast; that’s my trouble area too. I suspect that for a lot of people, once they get the dietary changes dialed in, they’ll find that that’s actually not hard. In the long-term, once you have this experience of profound healing with food and you really understand how those triggers affect you, it becomes less emotional more like your routine. You know? This is how I eat. But this is how I sleep isn’t that easy, because technology. I have the same problem, getting off my phone at the end of the day. You have to just be done and do something else. Because if we rush into bedtime, it can be kind of rough. So thanks for sharing a few of your tips there.

Jolaine: Yeah.

7. Standout supporters [40:04]

Mickey Trescott: We have really burned through our time.

Jolaine: I’m sorry!

Mickey Trescott: No! This has been a really fantastic interview. I think people are really going to enjoy it. I’m going to ask you one more question about support. Have you had any standout supports who have contributed to your healing journey, and can you talk a little bit about connecting with other people and how that’s helped you?

Jolaine: I would say. This is going to make me cry now.

Mickey Trescott: Oh no! {laughs}

Jolaine: {laughs} Sorry. The first person that comes to my mind would be my physiotherapist. She was there before I was diagnosed, and still is. And probably even more than my own husband, has seen me at my most vulnerable, the most pain that I’ve expressed. She’s also really wise, and she shows empathy but not pity. She listens and lets you finish your sentence. She hears that, but also she has a great way of giving me perspective.

So for example. Say I haven’t been able to walk for 4 months, and she’s seen me go through that, and helped me get to my car after a treatment and all that stuff. But then when I come out the other side, she’ll say, “I want you to take a second and see how great you’re doing right now, and remember where you were before. And next time this comes around, remember you will get through it. You will get back to this place. It always comes full circle.” That’s really helped me. And absolutely I’d say she’s been a huge support for me in that. And also become a great friend.

And then of course my family, my sisters, my husband, my mom have all been really supportive in a way that; for instance, I’m invited to a birthday party, if I say “I can’t sacrifice sleep right now. I really want to be there, more than anything in me, but I can’t right now.” To have someone say, “That’s totally ok. You shouldn’t sacrifice your health. I know you’re going to suffer for a week if you come here for an hour.”

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Jolaine: And that means so much to me. Whereas in the past, people are just selfish. They want you to be there for them. They don’t really care what it takes for you to get there, and how much you pay for it later. And there are sometimes I don’t mind paying for it because the experience itself was a memory that I treasure. And I’m going to remember that more than I remember the suffering. But when you sacrifice to be somewhere, and instead of someone saying, “Thank you so much for coming. I know it took so much for you to be here. I know you’re going to pay for it.” On the other hand they’ll say, “Why are you leaving already?” So that kind of contrast in support. So having people in my life who gets that; I will tend to spend my time with them more than people who are, “Why are you leaving already?” {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. They just don’t get it.

Jolaine: They don’t get it, no.

8. Takeaway points [43:42]

Mickey Trescott: Well thank you for sharing that, so much, Jolaine. One last thing. Do you have any tips or takeaways for anyone who is kind of at the beginning of starting their autoimmune healing journey?

Jolaine: Yeah. Absolutely. You know when I first started this, and found Sarah’s website, she has a little slogan on there that says, “It’s only effort until it’s routine.” And that has always stuck with me, so strongly. Because it’s so true. Because when people start, they’re like, “I can’t give this up! I can’t give up dairy! I can’t give up bread!” it’s overwhelming. It’s so huge to try and absorb it all and do it all. If you can just come back to that. It’s effort now, but only until it becomes your routine. And it will become your routine. And it won’t require so much effort and thought and planning. That’s huge.

I think another thing I would really strongly suggest is to get online, on our online support community.

Mickey Trescott: Yes! Yes!

Jolaine: That’s so, so huge. And the difference between now and 6 years ago is night and day.

Mickey Trescott: Isn’t it incredible!

Jolaine: It’s incredible. If you’re going to end up with an autoimmune disease, this is the time.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah {laughing}.

Jolaine: Because 6 years ago, 10 years ago; even 20 years ago, none of this was here. I can’t imagine where I’d be if I didn’t have the online resources. So people like yourself, all of the online bloggers. There is so much information there that’s ready, and available, and free to learn. Go, and read, and do. And absorb that. And be grateful. I’m so grateful for you, and all the other bloggers who have strongly contributed to my quality of life. So, go read the blogs, buy their books. Take advantage of the amazing recipes. Don’t limit yourself and say, “I can’t eat anything delicious again.” There were no cookbooks when I started; now there’s a whole library of amazing things. Focus on what you can have, do those, enjoy them, support the bloggers.

Mickey Trescott: I love it.

Jolaine: Read the meal guides, take the grocery lists. It can be a great adventure if you have the right attitude.

Mickey Trescott: I love that. That should be the tagline. “It can be a great adventure if you have the right attitude.” So. So well said. Well thank you so much, Jolaine, this is awesome.

Jolaine: Thank you, Mickey.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome interview. I think people are really going to enjoy hearing your story. It’s really; there are no words for suffering for 22 years like you did. One little beautiful thing that’s come out of that is that you can get on here and share with our audience. I know that’s a difficult thing to share some of these personal details, but I hope anyone listening is really grateful to you for sharing your story today. It’s really, really great conversation. Thank you, so much.

Jolaine: Thank you, Mickey. Thank you for your podcast, and what you do. Podcasts were my very first; Robb Wolf, Chris Kresser; my very first introduction into any of this. So, don’t ever underestimate how much you’re helping people.

Mickey Trescott: You too. Back at you. That’s why we’re here.

Jolaine: {laughs} Thank you.

Mickey Trescott: So everyone, we’ll be back next time with a question and answer episode. You guys take care. Jolaine, wishing you continued wellness as you navigate this path. We’ll talk to you guys soon.

Jolaine: Thank you Mickey!

Mickey Trescott: Bye-bye everyone.

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 5 takes us back to our Q+A style, where Mickey and Angie answer questions from listeners like you. In this episode, the ladies dig into how to address too much weight loss on AIP, how to navigate pregnancy while on AIP, good carb-y snacks for type 1 diabetics, and coffee replacements.

Plus, they start by chatting about common (and confounding) misconceptions about AIP, and the questions they wish they’d get asked more often. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. On to the podcast!

Topics:
1. Mickey and Angie ask each other a question [2:53]
2. Losing too much weight on AIP [8:10]
3. Over-restriction, losing too much weight [13:31]
4. Pregnancy and AIP [17:43]
5. Macronutrients: Cutting down on meat [25:00]
6. Carby snacks for type 1 diabetic [29:07]
7. Replacement for coffee [31:16]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everybody! Mickey here, and welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. If you’re here, you know that we are right in the middle of our second season; sharing with you guys a series of Q&A and interview today, because we’ve got both Angie and I on the line. We are doing a Q&A episode. We’re going to answer some of you guys’ questions. But first, I’d love to hear from Angie, how she’s doing this week.

Angie Alt: Hey everybody. I am doing good. I just got done having a little timeout week. I put myself in timeout, and had to do a bunch of regrouping, so that I could keep my head on my shoulders, and figure out how to do all the things that I do. I’m actually feeling a lot better this week, for taking that time. How are you Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I’m feeling a lot better now that you {laughs} had a timeout.

Angie Alt: Yeah, heads up everybody.

Mickey Trescott: Because I got a timeout, too. It was a really nice reminder that we both needed to slow down. And I wasn’t thinking about slowing down until you were like; I can’t this week. I was like, “You know what? I can’t either.” {laughs}

Angie Alt: Yeah. If you work in partnership; if one of you is losing it, the other one will be impacted. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Totally. Totally. So, yeah, I’m feeling pretty good after the weekend.

Angie Alt: Nice.

1. Mickey and Angie ask each other a question [2:53]

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so. Before we get to these listener questions, going on our theme that we started last time we did one of these, we’re going to ask each other a question. So Angie, my question for you this week, is what is one thing that we get asked all the time that sometimes you just can’t wrap your head around where all of the confusion comes from? {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs} Ok. Well, there’s probably a couple of areas to explore here. One that comes to the top of my mind right away is kind of the misconception that AIP is a no-sugar protocol. That comes up pretty often. I see it especially in my group program, because there’s high volume of people going through there. I get to be exposed to this really often. And you know, its’ a very low-sugar protocol, for sure. It’s nowhere near what a Standard American Diet has; not even in the same ballpark. Not even on the same continent in terms of sugar intake.

You know, people will say, “I thought I couldn’t eat any fruit, because there’s sugar.” You know. If they see a paleo treat recipe, they’re like, “I thought we couldn’t eat maple syrup!” Of course, we’re not encouraging everybody to go out and drink a gallon of it or anything, but a very small amount of sugar is totally within bounds for the protocol.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And don’t you think sometimes when people ask this, they’re angry.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: Like, they have; there are these anti-sugar people. Which, you know, sugar; especially if you’re someone who has a history of the blood sugar thing. We’re not saying sugar is the best thing ever. But sometimes when people write in, they’ll be like, “I am so disappointed. I thought this was sugar free. You should know better!” {laughs}

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: And it’s just like; uh, I mean, you know a little treat in moderation after dinner in the context of a balanced meal usually brings a lot of people happiness.

Angie Alt: Right. You know, the point. As always, I think we’ve said this many, many times now. But the point of this protocol is not to burden our hearts and minds; it’s to heal. And if you feel like you can never enjoy a small treat, and have a celebration with your family, or have something special over a holiday. If there is no option for that, it’s not going to be sustainable in real life. And you won’t be able to heal.

Mickey Trescott: Agreed.

Angie Alt: So, a little bit of balance there. Ok, so I have a question for you, Mickey. If there was one question that you wish we would be asked more often, what would it be? Do you think there are some under-explored facets of AIP?

Mickey Trescott: You know, one thing I haven’t really been asked very often that I actually think is a really interesting thing about my experience is just how my relationships with my friends and with my family, and even my relationship to the world; my career, what I do, how that has all changed as I undertook the autoimmune protocol. I mean, it’s kind of one of those things; defining moments in your life. I think when you have a health crisis and you decide to embark on something that is going to help you feel better, and empowered, and in control; I think that those changes kind of ripple out. And you know, people don’t really talk about it. There is bad; or hard parts about that.

When I was diagnosed, I had been vegan for a very long time. I had a lot of friends who were in the vegan/vegetarian community, and I had a lot of friends who weren’t vegan that I worked with. When I started eating different, and was sick all the time, and was kind of not that fun to be around because, you know, I needed a lot of support, a lot of these people just kind of disappeared out of my life. And it sounds kind of sad, but what ended up happening was I connected with a lot of incredible people, and made almost a whole new group of friends that I feel get me on a level, and we are close. Like, you and I, Angie, are close in a way that I don’t get that with a lot of people. So I don’t know. A lot of that has changed, and I think that’s something that I haven’t really been asked about.

Then changing your whole life, you just have a different outlook on life when you have one of those kind of lifechanging moments. It’s almost like going to college, or getting married. A big event in your life, but it’s unexpected, you know?

Angie Alt: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It’s a little bit of a come to Jesus moment.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, totally.

Angie Alt: In my world.

Mickey Trescott: And in that moment, you have the opportunity to change anything you want. And some things have to change, and some things that you never would have changed. Like, I probably would not have changed my career. But I was there, and there was the opportunity, and I went for it. And for a lot of people, that happens, you know.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Exactly. Good answer, Mickey.

2. Losing too much weight on AIP [8:10]

Mickey Trescott: Sweet. So that was fun. Now, let’s get on to tackling some questions from our audience. We have a few different topics today. We’re going to talk a little bit about weight loss on the autoimmune protocol. Pregnancy, some macronutrients, and a question about coffee.

So, Tina asks, “I have been strict full AIP for 8 months. I have alopecia, and have been trying to heal this. The good news is my hair is growing back.”

Angie Alt: Woot, woot!

Mickey Trescott: Yay. Side note; Tina, that’s awesome to hear. “Bad news is I’m losing too much weight. Instead of white potatoes I eat sweet potatoes, swede, squash, plantains, and parsnips. But I’m still losing weight. I additionally eat one avocado each morning with my breakfast. I eat 3 large meals a day; and I mean large, but I’m still dropping weight. What do you think could be the cause, and how could I put some weight on?”

Angie Alt: It sounds to me like Tina is doing a lot of the things that we would probably recommend, right? She’s trying to get in some carbs, and she’s working on getting in more fat when she can. She’s having pretty big servings of food. I would be wondering if she could add in even still a little more fat? So that’s kind of the first step. Make sure you’re eating more fat. Ways to do this beyond the avocados are roasting your vegetables in coconut oil, maybe trying to drizzle a little olive oil on just about everything you’re eating. I drizzle olive oil on just about everything you can imagine. Maybe trying to work in some fat bombs or some full-fat coconut milk into things.

Then, of course, maybe going a little bit further with the carbs. Even getting into some of the high glucose fruits; because you need a little bit of insulin response to store fat in the body. So maybe bananas, pineapples, apricots, plums, prunes, grapes, raisins, figs, dates. These really sugary kinds of starchy carb sources. And she’s kind of already working on the starchy vegetables, it sounds like.

And then probably last is not to forget the protein. I would wonder how much protein she’s eating per day. If it’s not enough, maybe bumping that up a little bit. In terms of lifestyle, making sure she’s getting enough rest, and managing her stress. Unmanaged stress can be a problem here with weight.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, another thing that I would think of too; this is kind of the opposite that we tell anyone who is having trouble losing weight on AIP, or even general AIP advice. So for any of you who don’t want to gain weight or are a healthy weight, ignore this. But this is a case where smoothies may be helpful.

Angie Alt: Yeah. That’s where I was going with the full-fat coconut milk.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Especially between meals, trying to get in some snacks. She says she’s eating 3 large meals a day. There have been periods where I really needed to gain weight, and I just couldn’t do it without a snack that had a lot of calories in it. And smoothies can actually trick your brain pretty well into getting some calories into your stomach without actually feeling like you’re too full; which is why a lot of people gain weight with them. But you can make smoothies with some of those higher glycemic fruits, and some coconut milk with some fat. And some collagen, and maybe throw some greens in there. That would be great.

The other thing I might thing is digestion. If her digestion isn’t great, things could be moving through too quick, and she might not actually be accessing those nutrients. So troubleshooting, maybe a reason for digestive issues.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Maybe even starting as simple as food hygiene. Like sitting down and having a very restful environment while you eat; chewing very, very thoroughly. Taking time to kind of concentrate on your food. The textures, the tastes, the smells. Just starting as simple as that, and seeing if it causes any changes. I’ve even recently experimented with this with my husband. And even after 5 years of having me live in his house, he has been shocked at how much it’s making a difference to take time for that.

Mickey Trescott: And it sounds like, too, if her hair is growing back, she might start thinking about reintroduction soon. Like, if she’s ready and she wants to start reintroducing food, something like white rice might be something to move up the stages, and maybe try that first. Because that’s a pretty good starchy carb that you can cook in some bone broth, and really cover it in some fat. And that might help it be another vehicle for getting some fat into her body.

Angie Alt: Right, she could even maybe try some butter pretty soon, and have another fat option in there.

Mickey Trescott: And the nuts and seeds.

Angie Alt: Yep. Yep. Congratulations Tina, on the hair regrowth! We’re happy for you.

3. Over-restriction, losing too much weight [13:31]

Angie Alt: Alright, let’s see. So we have another question about weight loss, Mickey. Jules asks, “I have been doing AIP for 2 months now and have lost too much weight. I know that adding more starchy veggies will help, but I’m not sure if SIBO is a factor or not. Also, I have some yeast/bacteria that I am dealing with, so I’m trying to limit starches and sugars. Any advice on this would be great. Thank you.”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So, Jules, I think that what’s going on is you’re restricting too many categories of food in addition to the autoimmune protocol. So it sounds like you’re limiting starches and sugars; and those are actually really needed to create energy in your body when you’re eating on such a restricted diet.

So, it sounds like you’re not sure if it’s SIBO, and you maybe know about some yeast and bacteria. The best course of action for someone like you is actually to find a practitioner and get tested for all of these issues that are potentially there. Going online and looking at Candida symptoms, or SIBO symptoms, is not good enough. A lot of these things kind of manifest differently in different people. And you really need to get treated. So restricting these starches and sugars, in addition to AIP, in a lot of cases is not going to make these issues go away. You’re just going to end up really frustrated with like 5 foods to eat, and I’m not surprised that you’re losing too much weight.

So if SIBO is something that you’re suspecting. For those of you guys that SIBO is maybe a new word, that stands for small intestine bacterial overgrowth. It’s very common in people with autoimmune disease, but not everyone has it. If you suffer from bloating, gas, diarrhea, and/or constipation, and/or alternating both, you could have SIBO. So a low FODMAP; this is fermentable fibers in the diet. Low-FODMAP diet can help a lot of people with their symptoms with SIBO, because these fibers are what the bacteria actually eat. So that’s why you get the bloating and the gas. These are the byproducts of the fermentation in your gut.

You really need to be tested using a breath test. It’s a lactulose breath test. That’s the only way you can tell if you have SIBO, and it needs to be ordered by a licensed practitioner. I actually think a urine organic acids test also can bring up SIBO. But the lactulose breath test, right Angie?

Angie Alt: Gold standard.

Mickey Trescott: Definitely the gold standard, yeah. And then, if you have yeast and bacteria, what I recommend is a comprehensive stool test. So this is something like the Metametrix or the Doctor’s Data, or whatever test your functional doctor orders that tests for a variety of yeast, bacteria, and parasites. What these tests will do is they’ll tell what strain you have, and then they will actually even test different antimicrobials on the strain that actually came from your sample, and they’ll tell what works on it. So your test will come back saying, “Ok, you have this level of Candida, and oregano is going to be the number one treatment for it.” Or, maybe your strain is most sensitive to the over-the-counter or prescription antifungals.

So if you’re working with a doctor, you can actually get that treatment. You can get the best treatment. And you can hopefully be done with it, so that you can start eating these starches that you’re going to need to keep weight on your body. Because it’s really, really difficult to do this kind of diet thing long term.

Angie Alt: Right. And if it turns that SIBO is in fact part of her picture, kind of in the same vein as the last question. She might consider an early reintroduction of white rice while she limits FODMAPs so that she has a starch source.

Mickey Trescott: Right. Yeah, white rice is tolerable to a lot of people that have SIBO. Not everyone, but usually it’s more tolerable. So that’s where working with someone, we definitely want people to be resolving these gut infections, instead of just dieting harder. Because that does not resolve.

Angie Alt: It won’t fix it.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

4. Pregnancy and AIP [17:43]

Mickey Trescott: So, Tales of a Nutrivore has a question about pregnancy. She says, “This is awesome, can’t wait for season 2.” We are excited to bring this to you, Tales of a Nutrivore.

Angie Alt: Thank you!

Mickey Trescott: She wants to know about living well with an autoimmune disease and pregnancy. “I know this is such a personal decision, but I’d like to know how different women have handled it. For example, when did they decide it was the right time? Were they in remission, or did they still have symptoms? How was their pregnancy and postpartum?”

Angie Alt: Yeah. So this is, like she says, it is a really personal decision. And I’ll just be the first person to be super real about this. For a lot of people, it just happens when it happens. {laughs} That said, deciding when the best time to go for it; I wouldn’t say that you have to totally be in remission to go for it, and try to get pregnant. But I think it is most likely that you’ll have a successful pregnancy, and easily get pregnant if you’re pretty close to remission, and in really good health.

I think Mickey and I have both had clients at different times who eventually got there, and we also know a lot of AIP bloggers who got to a period of health, and then it just happened quite easily. We kind of had this explosion.

Mickey Trescott: The baby boom.

Angie Alt: Yeah. We had an explosion of friends, the baby boom, with them all kind of getting pregnant at once. And relatively easily. Because I think they were in good health. Their body was well nourished, and it was easy to have it happen.

I don’t think any of those women would say that they were 100% symptom free, though. I don’t know if waiting to be there is realistic in terms of trying to get pregnant. But being in a really well-nourished place, where your body can easily handle the pregnancy is where you want to be.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. I was just going to say, as much as you can plan, if you want to, I think that’s going to just make it easier for you. So working with someone on some preconception nutrition can be really, really helpful. Because there are so many things that basically the baby is just asking for all of these resources in your body. And having an autoimmune disease is very demanding on the body, but then being pregnant and having an autoimmune disease is going to be even more; that much more demanding. So just, I would say, even before if you have the luxury of planning, just kind of focusing on that nutrient density and overall general health, and just making sure those pieces. Like the B12, and the iron, and you’re getting great sources of folate, and all of that. Eating a lot of really good, healthy fats.

Angie Alt: A lot of organ meat.

Mickey Trescott: A lot of organ meat. You know, the bone broth, the collagen and gelatin and all of that stuff. You can’t go wrong. I mean, you can’t go wrong at any rate for anyone {laughs} you know doing that, but especially someone who is looking to get pregnant.

Angie Alt: Right. And I think another important thing to keep in mind here is that that preconception nutrition matters to dad just as it matters to mom.

Mickey Trescott: Yep.

Angie Alt: So making sure that he’s eating that same way. Like in ancient cultures, the people who were getting this really prime food were soon to be moms and dads. So eat up on both your parts on those things.

So as far as how pregnancy and postpartum are, my daughter is 16, and I was unfortunately not part of the AIP world at that time so I can’t really speak from personal experience. But based on what I’ve seen with friends and clients, pregnancies are usually a pretty good period. This is because our immune system is kind of tapped down a little bit to make room for that new little person that you’re hosting, and that can be really positive with autoimmune diseases that are making our immune systems go so crazy. So pregnancy can often be a really positive time, and you can find, for instance, your food choices are really expanded. Your body does well with lots of stuff that maybe it didn’t normally perform so well with.

Postpartum, it can be really, really likely that you’ll go through a flare. I think a few of our friends went through some flares, and I have seen clients go through it. It’s really typical for women to experience flares when they are at points in their life where they have big hormonal shifts; like postpartum.

Mickey Trescott: There’s more; there are a lot of reasons for that. Not only are you going through a crazy hormonal shift, your body is completely depleted, you’re not getting any sleep {laughs}. And you’re going through this emotional experience of just bringing a baby into the world. It’s kind of the perfect storm for a flare.

Angie Alt: But that said; I think it’s possible to kind of foresee that coming, and plan as best as you can for that. Really focusing, again, after delivery on your nutrient density, doing the best you can in terms of sleep. Getting a lot of support around you with that new little one to try to offset some of the stress of caring for an infant. Those kinds of things could help you minimize the possibility of a flare.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. And I’ve worked with a couple of clients here where, once they were pregnant, they felt really great and they had some reintros, and they were on kind of a pretty expanded AIP template and kind of feeling awesome. But I told them, after they gave birth we needed to kind of check in and be vigilant. They needed to go back to their doctor, get their hormones tested. Especially one client I had with Hashimoto’s. And just make sure that all of their levels were ok.

With thyroid conditions, a lot of us with Hashi’s after they have babies the thyroid kind of takes a little while to get kind of jump started again, and sometimes that medication need can be a little bit higher. Sometimes even during pregnancy. So it’s important that if you have a thyroid condition, you make sure you’re kind of monitoring your thyroid care. Even in the conventional system; for anyone having a baby. They’re pretty attuned to checking the thyroid after birth, just because that’s a really common time for things to pop up. But it is important to even be assertive and get some of the further testing; because as we know, the conventional system is not that great at thoroughly testing and taking all the things into consideration. So that’s what I would say.

I have had a couple of Hashi’s clients go through this postpartum phase with minimal hiccups. Like, yeah, they’re going to be tired, and they’re going to have to go back to maybe a more restricted, elimination type diet, until they get back on their feet. They’re going to have to be really vigilant about trying to manage that stress, trying to get sleep when they can. But some of it is going to be just a different time, because that’s what having a baby is like, you know? {laughs}

Angie Alt: Yep.

Mickey Trescott: But then you have a baby, so.

Angie Alt: But then you have a cute baby.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. That makes most people happy.

5. Macronutrients: Cutting down on meat [25:00]

Angie Alt: It makes most people happy, yep. Ok, let’s see. We have some macronutrient questions. Sobrahoff, I hope I’m saying that right; says, “I am following AIP, but have had a few slips over the holidays, for which I’ve paid dearly. My question is, how can I get enough protein while cutting down a lot on meat? I’m not sure that meat isn’t a little of a trigger for me. I have psoriatic arthritis, so they say.” What do you think, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so I would say that it’s not impossible that someone is sensitive to meat, but I would say it’s a little bit more of an unusual sensitivity. So a meat intolerance, or sensitivity, usually comes up on food sensitivity tests, which we don’t love as a way to figure out what you’re sensitive to, really. The gold standard is food elimination and reintroduction. So in the beginning, for most people I would say, don’t worry too much about specific meats being triggers. Unless you have personal experience; like you know you’re allergic to shellfish, for example, that is definitely not what I’m talking about.

But, there is kind of a misconception that paleo and even the autoimmune protocol is a very meat-centric protocol. And the truth is, that there is kind of a wide variety and reasons why maybe you would want to eat a little less meat, or a little more meat than normal. I consider normal maybe 3-5 ounces at every meal. And that varies person to person, depending on the situation. Some people have kidney disease where a higher protein content is actually going to cause them harm, and they work with dieticians, and they get that protein requirement down, and they prefer sources of protein that are actually higher in nutrient density, like organ meat. Because if they’re not eating as much protein, they’re still getting as many nutrients as they would be if they were eating a higher volume. If that makes sense.

And then some people might eat more protein if they have a lot of repair that is going on in their bodies. Maybe even if they’re doing some athletic endeavors. You might need a little protein there. Maybe if they’re pregnant, you know. And then other people might eat more or less meat because of personal reasons. So when I actually transitioned to the autoimmune protocol, I had been vegan for 10 years. And my nutrient deficiencies, I think, were a lot more severe than most people that come to this protocol. So I actually ate a lot of meat at that point in my journey, because it felt very nourishing to me. I believe I was very depleted in nutrients, and I was craving it. So I especially was eating a lot of organ meat, a lot of fish, of course we know those are the most nutrient dense sources of meat.

But then over time, I kind of started dropping meat at some meals. And now, I eat meat for breakfast and dinner almost always, but lunch is kind of optional. If there’s meat, great; if there isn’t, I have a salad, I’m ok with that. So you don’t have to eat a ton of meat if you don’t want to. And I would say if you’re on the side of the spectrum, for whatever reason, that you’re eating less meat, just make sure that the meat you eat is nutrient dense. So for instance, you’re not just eating chicken. You’re eating some red meat, you’re eating some organ meat, you’re eating some fish. That kind of thing.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. And if you’re having trouble, especially in the beginning, if you’re transitioning from a vegan diet or a vegetarian diet. If you’re having trouble digesting the protein, you might try starting with a lot of fish, because fish is the easiest protein to digest.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, and also supporting that hydrochloric acid. That acidity, that’s something I had to do. A lot of vegetarians say, “Oh, I can’t digest meat, it doesn’t feel good.” Well, actually the nutrients that you need to digest meat are contained in meat.

Angie Alt: In the meat. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: So it’s a vicious cycle. That B1 and that zinc; if you’re deficient in those nutrients, then your body can’t make hydrochloric acid, which is needed to digest protein. So of course they don’t feel good. A supplement might help there, or just a little vinegar before meals, or something like that.

Angie Alt: Right. Support the stomach acid.

6. Carby snacks for type 1 diabetic [29:07]

Mickey Trescott: So, Ashley Runner says, “Hi ladies. I have celiac disease and type 1 diabetes. I’m on my second week, and I’ve noticed such a change in the amount of energy I have.” Yay!

Angie Alt: Hurray!

Mickey Trescott: “My question is about recommendations for easy 15-20 carb snacks I can keep in my bag for when I have a low. Thank you.”

Angie Alt: Yeah. So as type 1 diabetic, you have some special needs here, Ashley. And I’m sure you’re probably already pretty aware of it. But if we’re talking about emergency needs, then you’re going to want to have things like some dried fruit, fruit leather, things like that. Real high sugar, like a date.

Mickey Trescott: Honey stick.

Angie Alt: Yeah, a honey stick. Something that’s really high sugar, and really fast to absorb. If you’re looking for something that’s a little more like, you’re kind of out and about for the day and you’re noticing that your sugar is getting low, slowly over time, and you want to focus on those carb snacks. The number one thing that comes to my mind is some sweet potato chips, carrying around a little bag of those, or some plantain chips. Something that’s really easy, and pretty palatable; goes down pretty quick. That’s maybe what would be my go-to source. Do you have any other ideas, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, Artisan Tropic has cassava chips.

Angie Alt: Oh yeah, cassava.

Mickey Trescott: And taro chips. So there are a few options. You’d probably get sick of just doing one, like the sweet potatoes. Those sweet potatoes are actually the least favorite for me, of all of them.

Angie Alt: Yeah, me too.

Mickey Trescott: But I know people really like them a lot. But yeah, that’s what I would recommend, too. Just something a little bit in the starchier category than the sweeter category, because you know, probably better than we do, that if you just eat sugar then it goes up and then down again. So you need something to kind of stoke that flame a little bit longer.

Angie Alt: If you have a little bit more flexibility in terms of where you’re at; maybe you’re at the office during the day or something like that, I actually might try having half of a baked sweet potato hanging around with maybe some coconut butter or coconut oil so that you get those carbs you need to bring it up a little bit, but it’s a little cushioned by that fat.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. Agree.

7. Replacement for coffee [31:16]

Angie Alt: Ok, let’s see. Oh. Mickey, I better ask you this question. Everybody’s favorite.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Angie Alt: I’m having a hard time with these Instagram handles.

Mickey Trescott: Instagram handles {laughs}.

Angie Alt: Yep. She said, “I loved season 1.” Thank you! “What should I replace coffee with? I enjoy herbal tea, but are there any that are preferred or should be avoided on AIP?” Mickey, do you have some coffee thoughts for us?

Mickey Trescott: Yes. So the ex-Seattle barista who used to be terribly addicted to both caffeine and the ritual of drinking coffee every day, I’m the expert in this department. So here is my list of things to drink instead of coffee. The first one is actually a recent recipe that I posted on the blog. You guys can find it at www.autoimunewellness.com. Go to the search bar, and type “chicory coffee” or “dandelion coffee.” This is a blend of dandelion and chicory root, which are both herbs. Or actually, the root of herb plants. And they make this incredible coffee-like alternative. So these bits of these roots are roasted. They have a really similar bitterness and acidity to coffee. There is no caffeine, and they actually have properties that aid in liver detox, so there’s another reason why they’re awesome. I like to steep it in a French press or a tea ball, and also add some coconut oil and blend it in a blender to make it kind of bulletproof style. It kind of tastes like a latte; super delicious.

Obviously, there’s tea. Some caffeine free alternatives include rooibos, chamomile, peppermint, licorice. Those are pretty standard. Bone broth; if you want something warm and nutrient dense in the morning. Not everyone can get behind the flavor, but I sometimes will take a little bit of my bone broth batch; say that 10 times fast.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: And cook it; simmer it for maybe 30 minutes with some veggie scraps. So onion peels, garlic peels, tops of carrots, anything like that. It will give it kind of a vegetable-y flavor, and then I add some sea salt to taste. Sometimes even a squeeze of lemon. It tastes really great to drink straight up.

You can make a lemon-ginger infusion. This is something; have some fresh ginger on hand, cut it into some medallions, add a squeeze of lemon and some hot water. Super delicious. If you want a little bit of a sweeter beverage, which I would recommend only maybe on the weekends or for special occasions, because this is probably going to spike your blood sugar too much for every day. But you can make coconut milk chai “nottes”. I have a recipe for this in my autoimmune paleo cookbook; also in my article online. I have a link to a pumpkin spice “notte” that’s floating around the internet. This is just coconut milk and some AIP approved spices, a little bit of coconut sugar; super tasty.

And then lastly, if you don’t want to drink something warm. If you’re ok with drinking something cold in the morning, might be better in the summer, you can try some probiotic drinks. So, something like kombucha, water kefir, beet kvass, etc.

Angie Alt: Nice list. And ladies, that coffee replacement that Mickey mentioned, that is so great at also aiding with a little bit of liver detox. If you find that you’re somebody that’s having signs of excess estrogen close to your cycles. Things like breast tenderness and pain; maybe a little bit of acne. Maybe even a little bit of mood stuff going on. Trust me; if you drink this drink almost every day leading up, you will feel so much better. I know this from personal experience.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. It’s actually kind of a little wonder-drink. I love it.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Alright. I guess we’re pretty much out of time for answering questions today. Thanks to everyone for submitting. We hope you guys learned a lot over the course of this episode. We’re trying to jampack these with info. Have a great day everyone, and we will see you next week with a person interview.

Mickey Trescott: Bye guys!

Angie Alt: Bye!

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 4 is all about how to start the work and begin healing, even without a diagnosis. It’s our second interview episode of the season and in it, Angie sits down with her friend Stacy Smith to discuss how Stacy has managed an unidentified autoimmune condition for nearly 20 years.

Angie and Stacy dig into how Stacy came to terms with her condition, how she went from vegan fitness competitor to AIPer, how to find your “best fit” doctor, steps toward self-empowerment, and much more. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Stacy’s diagnosis story [2:35]
2. Coming to terms with the diagnosis [7:30]
3. Support of friends and family [10:38]
4. First discovering it’s autoimmune [12:34]
5. Finding your best fit doctor [15:58]
6. First steps towards self-empowerment [21:36]
7. Greatest dietary and lifestyle impact of AIP [27:52]
8. Lowest and highest points of Stacy’s journey [34:50]
9. Stacy’s present health situation [37:29]
10. Tips for beginning the journey [41:29]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Welcome back to Autoimmune Wellness podcast season 2. This is Angie, and today I’m interviewing Stacy Smith of Viridis Wellness, LLC. She is a fellow nutritional therapy consultant, and an Instagrammer extraordinaire. If you are not following her at Viridis Wellness on Instagram; you should definitely pop in there. She shares beautiful, very informative posts on the daily. She’s a much better Instagrammer than I am.

We have gotten a lot of feedback that you guys find it helpful to hear from folks who have taken on the healing journey in real life. So today, we’re going to be sharing a little bit of Stacy’s story. Thank you, Stacy, for joining us from the Midwest. Are you ready to get started?

Stacy Smith: I am. Hey Angie, how’s it going to day?

Angie Alt: It is going pretty good. There’s always way too much to do in life.

Stacy Smith: So true.

Angie Alt: But I am managing it somehow. {laughs}

Stacy Smith: So true.

1. Stacy’s diagnosis story [2:35]

Angie Alt: So, let’s just jump right in. I think it’s always good for folks to kind of tell their diagnosis story, and to kind of share what that part of the journey was like. One of our first questions that we always ask people is, what was the first symptom you noticed of your autoimmune disease? What was the first thing that popped up that made you go; “Hmm. I better investigate this?”

Stacy Smith: Something’s not right?

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Stacy Smith: Yeah. In my case, that would be harkening all the way back to 1998, when I moved to the Midwest from California. My first symptom was definitely severe fatigue, and that’s the one that I’m still working on today, many years later.

Angie Alt: Ok. Ok. Yeah, there should be a total different word to describe fatigue when it’s autoimmune fatigue. It’s on a whole other level.

Stacy Smith: Absolutely. So that should be the word that we make up this year.

Angie Alt: Right. {laughs}

Stacy Smith: {laughs}

Angie Alt: The word of 2017.

Stacy Smith: That’s right. That’s right. So yes; I went from being very healthy, very active at age 20, to completely debilitated, couldn’t get out of bed, and that was definitely tough at the time.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Ok. How long did it take, from noticing that first system, that really extreme fatigue, until you got an actual diagnosis?

Stacy Smith: You know, I still don’t have a diagnosis to this day. So I would say that that level of fatigue waxed and waned between 1998 and 2013. I would call that my silent autoimmunity period, which was quite long. And in 2013, I had this constellation of events happen in my life all at the same time. I switched jobs, I was working 80 hours a week at a very fast paced finance firm. I had someone in my family with whom I was close pass away. I had some issues in my relationship. I was training to compete in fitness; so I would say I really kind of pulled the trigger on the autoimmunity at that time; became very ill. I saw three different rheumatologists at the time. One told me, “You definitely have lupus.” One said, “You absolutely do not have lupus.” And another said, “You have undifferentiated connective tissue disease, which will probably turn into lupus.”

So with lupus, as with many autoimmune diseases, it’s obviously very common to take an extraordinarily long time to reach a diagnosis, and to receive conflicting information along the way. So, just the past month, I have been seeking out additional information. Decided I was going to find a new rheumatologist; interviewed several, and was told again, by one, “You definitely have lupus.” By the second one, “You definitely do not have lupus.” By the third one, “You may or may not have lupus, but you may have an unusual presentation of some other thing, such as ankylosing spondylitis or psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis; a couple of other possibilities.”

So, long story short, a couple of decades in, still no diagnosis.

Angie Alt: Yeah; this is a really hard one for us. And part of the reason that I chose to interview you today, because I really wanted to share with the audience; which I know there are many of them out there just like you, that sometimes getting a diagnosis is a very long journey, a very protracted journey for a lot of us. And sometimes we’re starting the work of healing before we’re even 100% sure what we’re dealing with. For some of us, that may never come. And you’re a really great example of somebody who is persevering despite not having that information yet.

Stacy Smith: Right. One of the; I would almost say it’s a benefit of the autoimmune situation, is that there are certain things. Even if you don’t have a diagnosis, there are certain commonalities; quite a few of them, that can yield improvement for almost everyone. And diet, specifically AIP in this case, has been extraordinarily helpful for me. So even though I don’t have a diagnosis, I have a suspected diagnosis of lupus, which may or may not be the case. There are still things I can do to improve my situation, and that’s what I’ve been focusing on, while also trying to figure out exactly what it is that’s going on with me.

2. Coming to terms with the diagnosis [7:30]

Angie Alt: So, one of the questions that we often ask folks is about their experience coping with the disease, and how they felt when they were diagnosed. Obviously, you don’t have that piece of the story, but how do you feel not having that diagnosis?

Stacy Smith: Well, you know, I felt like I had that diagnosis, honestly. I spent several years identifying as part of the lupus community. And I still do, to a large point. That first doctor that I saw is the one that I stuck with, and to quote him, he said that my presentation was very likely to develop into the type of lupus where your kidneys are involved, and that I should expect to pass away from kidney disease. That was very clear-cut to me, regardless of what the others said. That was going from being a very healthy person with having no; I certainly hadn’t accepted that whatever was going on with me would possibly be life-threatening, because it had been going on for 15 years. Honestly, my thought was, “Whatever is going on with me is not life-threatening, or I wouldn’t still be here 15 years later.”

So for him to tell me that was honestly devastating. I would say that at the time I did not cope very well with my diagnosis. And it was one of those things that really took hitting rock bottom, and starting to pull yourself out over an extended period of time.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Yeah. You know, not every autoimmune disease that’s out there is quite so aggressive, or necessarily life-threatening. Certainly, it diminishes quality of life, but there are some that are really aggressive, and it’s scary to face a diagnosis like that. I can certainly understand that initially trying to cope with being told that this might be what’s happening must have been really tough.

Stacy Smith: Yes, and he didn’t have any doubt in his mind, and the way that he portrayed it. And my doubt has come since then with the more information that I gather, and the more educated I become, and the more that I advocate for myself. I question whether or not that’s really what’s going on, or if it isn’t something more unusual. So, regardless, it certainly has impacted my quality of life. But at this point, the wondering what is going on is driving me a little bit crazy.

Angie Alt: {laughs} Yeah.

Stacy Smith: {laughs} So. I’m putting a lot of energy into trying to get that answer, while at the same time trying to cultivate an acceptance that I may never actually achieve that.

3. Support of friends and family [10:38]

Angie Alt: Right. Right. Tell us about how your friends and family have handled your walk with chronic illness. Whatever we’re working with here. Have they been a source of support and strength for you?

Stacy Smith: You know, I found honestly that most of my friends did not understand what was happening at all. And I found that the most useful thing I could do was actually create new friendships with a different kind of people who got it. So I would encourage anyone who is finding that they don’t have the level of support that they need to be successful in their journey, in their life as it sits now, to consider releasing some of those relationships and building new and better ones.

Angie Alt: That’s such good advice {laughs}.

Stacy Smith: Go ahead?

Angie Alt: That’s such good advice.

Stacy Smith: You know, it’s hard. You want people to accept you as you are, but at some point, if they don’t, then you know what, that’s on them. And just let it go, and create a new community of people who are supportive. Because I think; as you know very well; connection is a critical piece of being able to manage your autoimmunity. Luckily, I did have someone in my life who was very understanding and supportive, and is to this day, and that is my boyfriend. He has been with me from the beginning, and really unshakeable in his support. I was a very different person when we met, with very different capabilities than I am now, and he just won’t quit. And on the days that I feel like quitting, he won’t let me quit. So I’m very thankful for him. He’s been a blessing.

4. First discovering it’s autoimmune [12:34]

Angie Alt: Aww. That’s great. That’s great to have that one rock-solid supporter. That’s my husband, too. So, let’s backtrack a little bit. When you first learned that what you could possibly be dealing with, and we realize this is an ongoing investigation for you.

Stacy Smith: Right.

Angie Alt: But when you first learned that what you could be dealing with was an autoimmune disease, what did you think about autoimmune disease? Was that something that you knew about prior, or was it like; “Oh my gosh, I didn’t even know that these existed?”

Stacy Smith: Well, during the period from when I first, let’s say got sick, to when I had a “diagnosis” in 2013, I had been to what felt like every doctor on the planet. Every specialty trying to get to the bottom of this. And I had been told that based on my very vague symptoms of fatigue, and my family history, that it was probably some form of autoimmune disease. Which was not rearing its ugly head to the point where it was observable with typical labs yet. So I was somewhat prepared. I thought at the time; my mother has a wide variety of autoimmune diseases, unfortunately, and so do many of the women in my family. So, I knew that it was possible. But what I didn’t do, unfortunately, that I would like to encourage anyone who maybe doesn’t have a diagnosis yet, and has this really precious window in which to do something, is to educate yourself now and take preemptive steps before something happens.

So, I had an early tip. And I didn’t utilize it. Which is spilled milk now, but I wish that I had known now what I did then, or I wish that I had known then what I do now. Excuse me. As many of us do. Because I did have sort of a wasted opportunity there to do something about it. So, I kind of knew it was coming, but didn’t really understand how it worked. My family had only ever used conventional medical treatment, and had more of a conventional thought process as to what autoimmune disease was.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. So it was making that leap. Maybe it was too early in your journey to know you should have made it. But I think all of us who chose other routes initially wish we could go back and put some of this diet and lifestyle stuff in place sooner.

Stacy Smith: Right, right. Exactly. Because traditional medicine is so much more focused on, “We’re going to wait until you are severely ill before we try and put a Band-Aid on it.” I really didn’t receive a message of, “Hey, this is what you can do now.” So that’s something that I like to try to educate others on today, hoping that maybe someone out there will hear the message and take the opportunity if it’s presented to them.

Angie Alt: Right. Right. So in that initial health care experience, it sounds like at first maybe you didn’t really react one way or the other. But then you may have started out trying to follow some conventional routes to dealing with the problem.

Stacy Smith: Yeah.

5. Finding your best fit doctor [15:58]

Angie Alt: So, there were obviously some doctors along the way. And folks you’re still probably working with. How did you find your best and most helpful doctor? This is such a tough one for those of us in the autoimmune community to find doctors that are really great people to have on our team. So how did you find your best and most helpful doctor?

Stacy Smith: You know; I would say that I’m still doing that now. I have had a difficult relationship with most of the physicians who are on my team. I am just; my goal for Q1 of this year has been to find a new rheumatology relationship, and I think I’ve found her. I spent a lot of time interviewing, and I found someone with whom I’m really comfortable. But it took a lot of advocacy on my part, and going in with the attitude of, “I’m interviewing you. I’m looking for the right partner for me,” and being willing to walk away from numerous people who were recommended to me but didn’t feel right to me.

So the individual that I chose, whom I’ve only seen twice, she did come from a recommendation, which is something I think is a great place to start. But this particular recommendation came from within the AI community; which I found was… I mean our AI community, looking at more natural treatments and holistic approach versus conventional approach. So that was a great place to start. I had heard that she actually recommended dietary and supplements as opposed to going straight to pharmaceuticals right off the bat; so that was a great sign.

And when I met with her, the thing that really stood out about her is no one else spent the amount of time with me that she did. She wrote out all of my symptoms, and created, on paper, a list of what her various theories were for what was going on with me. And everything that we would need to do to rule in or out each one. And then made sure that I had a copy of it, so that I understood what was going on. I was fully involved in the process.

So, what I would say to people who are trying to find the right relationship is that you have to be your best advocate. You have to devote time and energy to finding that relationship; that it is absolutely worth it. And not to quit, if you feel discouraged or you haven’t found it yet.

Angie Alt: Such great advice. It can be tough, right? When we invest the time into getting to know these doctors and trying to start a relationship with them, and then it doesn’t turn out to work. It can be hard to muster the energy to move on to the next one.

Stacy Smith: it does.

Angie Alt: But it sounds like you’ve been just totally dogged in your approach there, so that’s awesome.

Stacy Smith: It definitely requires energy. But what was the point of going back to the person that diet had nothing to do with autoimmune disease, and every time I saw him told me to expect that I would die of kidney failure. There really was no point. We had completely different views on what was going on, as well as how to handle it. And there was no partnership there. So it was sort of scary to let go of the person through whom I was able to monitor my antibodies every quarter. But sometimes you just have to trust in the universe that if you let go of some things that are holding you back, you will have room to invite the things that you need into your life.

Angie Alt: Right. That’s such a great way to look at that. You know; obviously what you’re describing here is really looking for somebody that you can collaborate with. Something that Mickey and I are really focused on with Autoimmune Wellness; learning this skill of collaborating with your health care team. Do you feel like your skills in that area have grown as a result of trying to manage your condition?

Stacy Smith: Absolutely. I have told all of these doctors that I am the quarterback here.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Stacy Smith: {laughs} And some of them appreciate that, and some of them don’t. But in the beginning, I had a very; I would say, traditional experience. And then I thought; not to take anything away from the training and the level of knowledge that physicians have, at all. But that doesn’t mean that you have to blindly follow everything that they tell you. Or accept everything that they tell you without question, without investigation, or without trying to get your own education. And that’s where I started from, you know. The position of; “Well, whatever they tell me, they’re a doctor. That’s the way that it is.”

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm.

Stacy Smith: And now, I have a very different, very different stance on it. I mean, huge advocate for patient education, and partnership. So, I would say that’s one of the gifts that this has given me is learning to be much stronger in the way that I approach my medical relationships than before.

Angie Alt: Right. Right. I think most of us in the journey eventually get there. So, you see that we have to take that empowered stance if we want to achieve some wellness.

Stacy Smith: Yes.

6. First steps towards self-empowerment [21:36]

Angie Alt: And better quality of life. So, kind of moving on to treatment and how you’ve approached this. Do you remember what the first active step was that you took towards managing your condition? Like, the first step that you took that you felt like, “I am really at the head of this thing.”

Stacy Smith: The first step that I took was; well, when they told me I had lupus, they sent me home with a prescription for Plaquenil; which is a pretty standard lupus medication. I went and filled it, started taking it; had a horrible reaction. They then wrote me a script for prednisone. I was dutiful; I went to the pharmacy, filled it, started taking it; had a different but equally horrible reaction. They then basically told me, “I know your lifestyle is significantly hindered, but your organs show that they’re functioning sufficiently on your labs. Which means we can’t justify giving you the next level of medication. So, even though you can’t work, and you can’t walk, and you can’t do your sports, and you can’t, and you can’t and you can’t; we’re sending you home. Just stay in bed until it gets worse. When it gets worse, come back to us and we’ll give you a DMARD, or chemotherapy,” or any of the other more significant options, which they had to medically justify.

So I tried conventional treatment first; and feeling like it failed me is why I started seeking other solutions.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. So maybe that first active step was going; “These aren’t working for me. Now I have to choose something else.”

Stacy Smith: Right. I hit rock bottom, and that was the summer before I met you, Angie, where I spent a few months in bed. And honestly, I was feeling really sorry for myself. I felt like I had to walk away from my career in finance; which I spent my whole life working for. And all of my sports, which were very important to me. And I literally couldn’t even walk. And my understanding was that the medical community said, “There’s nothing we can do for you now.”

So, the first thing that I did after spending a few months feeling sorry for myself, really was to decide that no one was going to fix this but me. I had to take charge for myself. That I was not just going to sit there and waste away. And if there was a way, I was going to find it, and I was going to do it, and to heck with what anybody else said. So I started researching; that became my new full time job. And I found the connection between diet and autoimmune disease, and the first thing I tried was vegan.

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm.

Stacy Smith: I had actually been vegetarian for most of my 20s. Which I say vegetarian; but really it was more crab-etarian. One of those kinds of vegetarians.

Angie Alt: {laughs} Crab-etarian. I love it.

Stacy Smith: Crab-etarian. For sure. So I went vegan, and I felt honestly, horrible. I felt just absolutely horrible. I now understand why. But that was sort of my gateway to food as medicine as a possibility. And after that is when I found AIP. And choosing AIP was really the first thing that I did that made a positive impact in my health.

Angie Alt: That’s great.

Stacy Smith: It changed my life, honestly. Not just my health; but it changed the entire course of my life.

Angie Alt: Yeah. I mean, you’re not… I don’t think it’s too unusual to have folks kind of find their way into the AIP community through the door of vegetarianism or veganism. That is their first step in the direction that diet can help impact their healing. And maybe it opens the door, but it doesn’t kind of get them where they need to be, and then that’s kind of how they get here.

Stacy Smith: Right.

Angie Alt: So that’s, I think, something that a lot of our listeners will really relate to. So obviously, that’s how you discovered the autoimmune protocol, and that it could impact your healing. Was it difficult to adapt to AIP, or did you just jump right in?

Stacy Smith: You know, I was an overnight kind of person. I’ve always had that type of attitude. And I’ve been on fitness competition diets, which are very difficult, in the past. So I’m not a stranger to doing hard things with food. And I’m also sort of a zero to 60 individual in pretty much everything that I do. So I didn’t find it that hard, to be honest. The logistics of it were hard, but emotionally it wasn’t that difficult for me. Which I don’t want to portray that that it’s not extremely different for most people; its’ just for me, it wasn’t that bad. Thankfully.

Angie Alt: Great. I was kind of in the same spot as you. There are all kinds of different approaches to getting in there and doing it; and for some folks, it comes a little more easily than others.

Stacy Smith: I think it also depends on how sick you are.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Stacy Smith: You know; for me, I was at my absolutely rock bottom in my life, and felt like there was no one to help me and nothing else to try, and desperation can be a great motivator, you know.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Stacy Smith: It can make you do some things you didn’t think you could do.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Stacy Smith: So it certainly worked that way for me.

Angie Alt: I totally relate. I was in the same exact spot. I thought, “I cannot have one more anaphylaxis style reaction and end up in the emergency room. I have to do something right now.”

Stacy Smith: Right.

7. Greatest dietary and lifestyle impact of AIP [27:52]

Angie Alt: Was there any one aspect of the dietary change that really stood out to you as making the greatest impact? Like, did you find that particular food eliminations really had an impact? Did you find that certain nutrient dense additions were the impact? What stood out to you there?

Stacy Smith: I would say two things. Going from vegan, which was very high grains, to grain-free, I felt tremendously better, and my inflammation was enormously improved. Within 60 days, I knew that this was working for me. But within a few weeks, I could literally walk again. Which was obviously huge. But the one portion that I think has been most significant in my recovery is actually the introduction of healthy fats. Because I spent 10 years on, after the crab-etarian period, I was in the low-fat, no-fat fitness diet period for a long time. With periods of overtraining, and underfeeding for competition goals. And there was no fat in there, anywhere, ever.

So now understanding the downstream impact from that, I think that getting over my fat phobia. Which honestly took actually going to school with the Nutritional Therapy Association, and doing a lot of research to really truly understand that everything I thought I knew was actually wrong. But getting over my fat phobia and incorporating healthy fats into my diet, and seeing how much better I felt. And then also understanding it was helping to balance my hormones, and my inflammation, and everything else was really monumental for me.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. The information we get in Nutritional Therapy education about fat is just, it’s awesome. Rock solid stuff to understand right there. So, we know obviously that the autoimmune protocol is not just about diet; there’s also a lifestyle component that often takes a little more time to implement, but it can be equally important. So first of all; did you make any changes to your lifestyle following getting sick. Things like career changes, living arrangements; it sounds like earlier you kind of mentioned there were career changes. And then going forward, has there been any one area of lifestyle that has really impacted your healing journey? Like managing sleep better, or stress better. Things like that.

Stacy Smith: You know; I made sort of an involuntary lifestyle change when I first was very ill in 2013 and had to leave my job. Which that was something that I was very upset over at the time. But in hindsight, I can tell you with every certainty that I would have done that anyway. That that needed to happen anyway. And I’m happy to not be in that situation anymore where I’m working 80 hours a week, and the stress level was ridiculous, and you regularly answer emails to clients at 2 or 3 in the morning. So that change had already happened.

But it’s more that I embraced that that change was good and necessary, rather than holding this pain in my heart attached to that change. So, really, I focused solely on diet for a long time. And as you know, I’ve been on AIP full elimination for quite a while now. And I didn’t start looking at the lifestyle aspects until I had been on it for a really long time, and felt like; ok. I’ve done probably the majority of what I can do with food; for me in my particular case. It’s not going to solve everything for me, so what’s next? Then I started attacking the lifestyle aspects. Or investigating them one at a time; really delving into them one at a time. And that shift has been huge for me.

In my case; I feel like this is all a lesson to me to deal with all of the things that I have never dealt with in my life. And I feel like one of my roadblocks is working through that. Right? The only way out is through. All the things that I have not wanted to go through in my life, I am embracing them all now. And that’s where I’m seeing positive changes. For me, I think a lot of this is related to adrenal health. So stress management and sleep hygiene are still two of my biggest challenges. I have periods where I have those; a lot of self-care practices in place that really improve how I feel on a day to day basis. And then I have periods where I sort of lose control of those things temporarily, and I definitely feel worse.

So I would say; for those listeners who lead a very hectic life, and sort of have a driver, type A personality where you can never quit what you’re doing, where relaxation is a dirty word. I would challenge them to really embrace the lifestyle aspects as well as the diet. Because I feel like we’re going for holistic health, and it is more than just food. I feel like the food is required; but you are going to have a much harder time getting there if you don’t look at the lifestyle aspects. Especially stress and sleep, if you have a driver type of personality.

Angie Alt: Yeah. It can be really hard to come to terms with that, if you’re that kind of personality. But tackling it in the end probably pays pretty big dividends.

Stacy Smith: Yes. It’s the things that we don’t want. I don’t care if it’s food or lifestyle; it’s the things that we don’t want that we need the most.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Yeah. {laughs}

Stacy Smith: You know.

Angie Alt: It’s true.

Stacy Smith: So whether you’re talking about organ meats, or you’re talking about going to counseling; it’s the stuff you don’t want that you really have to dig into to be whole and to be healthy.

8. Lowest and highest points of Stacy’s journey [34:50]

Angie Alt: Yep. So true. It’s totally true. So let’s talk about the ebb and flow of disease a little bit. Because we know autoimmune disease is not just this perfectly straight line, pretty predictable thing. Anything but predictable. There’s definitely a bit of a rollercoaster with it. What do you think has been maybe a particularly low point for you in the disease experience? And you know, on the positive side; what has been a really high point, where you either felt really great, or you felt really empowered about what you were doing to heal?

Stacy Smith: Definitely my lowest point was the summer that I spent in bed, kind of playing my tiny violin for myself, feeling like there was nothing I could do. And being physically unable to walk. Where shortly prior to, I was very involved in cycling, and weight lifting, and all of the activities that I loved. And to me; one of my best memories was walking into the hotel at the Nutritional Therapy Association workshop weekend, after I had been on AIP for a few months, and having them just look at me with curiosity and confusion, because I had booked a handicap accessible room, and asked for a wheelchair when I made my reservations.

Just being able to walk in there like everybody else; I had a giant smile on my face, and I was pretty proud of myself. And I knew that they weren’t going to understand, and I was kind of excited about that. So I had a great conversation with the lady I had been working with the whole time, to make those handicap accessible arrangements. And she gave me a hug, and it felt really great, honestly. And that was all because of AIP.

Angie Alt: Aww. Yeah, I mean I can say for the listeners. I met you for the first time face-to-face; I had known you kind of online and seen your presence there. But I met you for the first time face-to-face at our workshop weekend. And I honestly wouldn’t have known that you had made such a big recovery from the summer before, if you had not told me. You were clearly on the right path with what you were doing.

Stacy Smith: Well thank you. It was great to be able to go and interact with peers, and to sort of be a part of society again.

9. Stacy’s present health situation [37:29]

Angie Alt: Mm-hmm. Right. How would you describe your present? Where are you at in terms of wellness right now? We kind of got a little bit of a sneak peek earlier in our conversation about where you’re at right now. But tell us some more about that.

Stacy Smith: So right now, I am excited to say that my gut is in pretty good shape. I can tell you that AIP works, because I got some testing back recently and my functional medicine doctor was like, “Wow! I’ve not seen anyone with autoimmune disease whose gut looks this great!” So, that’s what a year and a half on AIP, full elimination can do for you. I do have a little bit of unresolved SIBO that I have to decide how I’m going to handle it. I don’t have any GI symptoms at all. So knowing that most of the time in my opinion you have to treat SIBO with antibiotics, and also that my gut is in pretty darn good shape, I need to make a decision about how I’m going to move forward with that.

What I’m trying to do right now is track down the cause of my other symptoms. The one thing that has not resolved enough for me is the fatigue. Which was my original symptom. So with the diet, I’m able to be functional in life again, but not nearly to the capacity that I was, and not far enough for what I’m looking for. My fatigue is still my limiting factor. I also have a couple of injuries, from a minor bike accident, which have not healed in 2 years, which are causing me some significant issues in my daily life. And which I had been told by my prior medical providers were all unrelated incidence. And my gut kept saying, “I don’t think so.” I think this is systemic. I think there’s a reason why this normally heals in most people in X number of months, and for me all three of these things have been happening for 2 years. And this latest rheumatologist is in agreement with me; that the orthopedic things I’m experiencing are really part of the disease process.

So I’m trying to get a handle on exactly what’s going on with my diagnosis, so that I can resolve the orthopedic issues, as well as improve my level of fatigue is kind of where I’m at. I’m also really looking at other underlying factors now. I’m trying to see if there is anything else going on. I know my adrenals are involved. I know I have low-level hydrogen variety SIBO. I’m sort of chasing some more unusual possibilities at the moment; like metals, or Lyme, or I know that MTHFR is an issue for me. So I’m really at the point, because I haven’t fully resolved back to the level of functionality that I need, that I’m chasing all the leads that I can right now, one at a time.

Angie Alt: Yeah; you’re kind of investigating all those remaining threads that could be preventing progress, and trying to really fine tune.

Stacy Smith: Yep. So it could be one thing; it could be a combination of a lot of things for me. My case has always been very complex. So I just am not going to quit until I figure it out.

Angie Alt: I mean; if this episode isn’t sounding like empowerment to you guys, I don’t know what empowerment is. Listen to this lady.

Stacy Smith: {laughs}

Angie Alt: She’s following it all the way to the end.

Stacy Smith: All the way; that’s right.

10. Tips for beginning the journey [41:29]

Angie Alt: Stacy, do you have any helpful tips or takeaways for anyone beginning their autoimmune healing journey? You’re well in; you’re kind of really in the weeds now, at this point. But what would you say to people that are just at the beginning?

Stacy Smith: You know, what I want them to know is that this is something that they can take on themselves. If they feel like they don’t have help from the medical community yet; they haven’t found the right relationship yet; if someone tells them there’s nothing they can do; I want them to know that there’s something they can do. All is not lost. All is not hopeless. You do have the power to create positive changes in your life yourself.

And I also want them to understand that listening to your body, and being prepared to make long-term lifestyle adjustments to support your health is critical. I spent the majority of my life doing everything I could to not listen to my body {laughs} you know. I was very much in the, “Pain is weakness leaving the body,” camp. And that is such a disservice, on so many levels. Now I really seek to listen to my body on every level; physically, emotionally, and otherwise. And for those of you who maybe aren’t quite in tune yet with what your body is trying to tell you, whether you’re talking about food, exercise, lifestyle; what have you. I would really encourage you to, whether you’re journaling or through meditation, or any avenue that you find useful, I would really encourage you to try to learn to listen to your body, instead of to silence it.

Angie Alt: Such good advice. That’s just such good advice. Something we talk about a lot in SAD to AIP in 6. Stacy is a coach with me in that program, and this is something we really try to help people learn over the course of 6 weeks. How to listen to their bodies, and gain that skill.

Stacy, thank you so much. This is a great interview. I think our listeners are really going to enjoy hearing about your experience. There is so much to relate to there, and you’ve been a wealth of information about how to approach it.

If people want to keep up with you, where they can do this; how can they do this? How can they connect with you?

Stacy Smith: It’s been great to be here, Angie, so thank you for having me. Anyone who wants to connect with me, you can find me at www.ViridisWellness.com*, and that’s V-I-R-I-D-I-S. Viridis is Latin for green; and Angie knows that nature is one of my true passions. So that’s where that comes from.

*Please follow stacy on Instagram @viridiswellness while her site is under construction.

As you said, I also coach with you on SAD to AIP in 6; so anyone who wants to investigate that excellent program, our paths might cross there. And I have a really fun project in the works with my partner, Kelsey Albers from Ignite, Nourish, Thrive, called the Autoimmune Athlete. You can find us on www.theautoimmuneathlete.com, as well as in our private Facebook group by the same name.

Angie Alt: Awesome. Thanks so much. You’ve got so much cooking. Love it!

Stacy Smith: Lots of things in the air. Lots of good, fun stuff coming.

Angie Alt: Right. We are wishing you so much success as you continue to navigate the autoimmune wellness journey. Stacy, I know there’s’ a lot going on for you, but it sounds like you are well on your way. We will be back next time, everybody, with a Q&A episode. Take care everyone!

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 3 is our second Q + A episode where we answer questions submitted by AIPers just like you! Angie and Mickey answer eight reader-submitted questions and, as usual, they pack in a lot of information.

Topics discussed include what to do if you don’t receive a diagnosis, how long to wait before beginning reintroductions, determining what a “bad reaction” looks like, how to keep leafy greens interesting, and how to find a natural doctor. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Mickey and Angie answer non-AIP related question [2:48]
2. No diagnosis despite blood work [6:38]
3. Continuing AIP without an exact diagnosis [12:00]
4. How long before reintroductions? [14:14]
5. Determining a detrimental reaction after reintroduction [17:31]
6. Mickey and Angie’s personal experience with elimination and reintroduction [20:44]
7. Adding more greens, keeping them interesting [26:49]
8. Getting in calcium [29:56]
9. Resource for finding natural doctors [32:09]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everyone! Mickey here, and welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We’re in the middle of our season two. Today we’ve got a great question and answer episode for you, and we realize that some of you guys might be new to the podcast, or even to AIP in general. So if some of the questions on these podcasts sound a little bit above your head; kind of gibberish to you, we recommend going way back to the beginning of season one where we take you through every step of living well with autoimmune disease, starting with informing yourself. There is a ton of information there; we don’t want you guys to miss it. Right Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah, we did a podcast episode for every chapter of our book; both one sharing our personal stories on that particular topic; as well as in-depth interviews with various experts for each of the topics. Trust us, there is a ton of information. What was there; like 18 episodes or something, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it was a very comprehensive and well-produced season. So if you guys are new, don’t be afraid to go back there and start. We cover a lot of information that we’re actually getting questions about that are in those episodes, so we wanted to send you guys a little reminder. Say, hey, start there if you’re kind of new to this. If you guys have been on the road for a while, then you’re in the right place.

1. Mickey and Angie answer non-AIP related question [2:48]

So before we get started with today’s episode, I actually kind of had a little idea. And I think it would be fun, Angie, to ask each other an AIP related question before our reader questions. What do you think?

Angie Alt: Um; well, thanks for springing this on me. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Angie Alt: And yeah, I’m into it. Let’s do it.

Mickey Trescott: Ok, cool. So, I want to ask you; what was the most non-AIP you ate or did this week?

Angie Alt: Non-AIP thing I ate or did this week. Well, so my birthday was on Saturday.

Mickey Trescott: Woot, woot!

Angie Alt: Yeah. {laughs} So I went out and had a glass of wine, that was very yummy.

Mickey Trescott: Oh my gosh.

Angie Alt: Yep. And then, yesterday I actually made the fish pie recipe from Russ Crandall’s first cookbook; The Ancestral Table. Russ Crandall goes by The Domestic Man on his blog and social media accounts. And that recipe includes heavy cream, butter, and white potatoes. So I super went into some reintro mode there with that delicious meal.

Mickey Trescott: How did you feel after eating it?

Angie Alt: Pretty good. You know, I’ve been pretty lucky in the dairy department in terms of reintroductions, and I seem to do pretty ok. I don’t eat dairy every single day, by any means. Not even every single week. But if I have it in small amounts; like, the last time I had any dairy was at Christmas time; I seem to do ok.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, that would probably take it over the edge for me.

Angie Alt: I know; don’t worry, I won’t make it when you’re here. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Actually, thinking about it right now is maybe producing a reaction, so let’s move on.

Angie Alt: {laughs} Ok. Don’t start wheezing. Ok, so my question for you; you know, I think folks have the impression that we work a lot; and we do. But we also take breaks, and I’m wondering what kind of vacation plans you have this year.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so you know what kind of vacation plans I have this year.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Because; when we were on book tour in November…

Angie Alt: Oh my god.

Mickey Trescott: I stayed up; well I didn’t stay up. I set my alarm for 1:30 in the morning so that I could get up and buy Radiohead tickets in Europe. Because my husband and I have been trying to see them since I saw them 10 years ago without him, and he’s been kind of hurt and sad {laughs} ever since then that we haven’t been able to get tickets, which are kind of hard to come by. And they were going on a European tour, and I was like; well, if I can get tickets anywhere in Europe, I guess we’ll go there. {laughs}

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: So Sweden won; I won tickets in Sweden, so we’re going to go there in June. And I have nothing planned, except for a plane ticket and a Radiohead ticket. So if you guys know any cool things going on in Sweden, send me a message on Instagram or something.

Angie Alt: And I’m like a really cool partner, because even though this craziness was happening at 1:30 in the morning, while we were supposed to be on book tour; I was like, “Yeah, dude, I’m down with live music. Do what you gotta do!” {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: I’m like, I was in the bathroom because I didn’t want my computer screen to wake you up. And then I was trying to type in my credit card number, and the website was all in Swedish. I actually accidentally bought the Norwegian tickets; which I really. The date was wrong; anyways, I’m in the bathroom with my computer, in the dark, and the bright light is blinding me; and I’ve got Google Translate, and my credit card, and I’m like, “Angie is probably thinking I’m a crazy person right now!” {laughs}

Angie Alt: No. No. I was totally behind you.

2. No diagnosis despite blood work [6:38]

Mickey Trescott: Yep. That happened. So that was fun. So, now let’s get onto tackling some of your specific questions about AIP, because we know you guys have got a lot; you always send in a lot when we ask. So let’s start with some questions about diagnosis. Sound good Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: Alright. So, Good Eats Gal has a question about those who are undiagnosed despite heaps of blood work. She says she has a definite positive ANA, and symptoms but no confirmed diagnosis. She is worried about people like her who are put on a “wait and see” track, and that it would be great to hear in-depth about another way of how to find hope without those answers.

Angie Alt: So, the first thing I would say to Good Eats Gal is we actually are going to have an interviewee during this season who doesn’t have a diagnosis, and has been following the AIP for a long time despite that. She’s still working towards her answers, and it’s been a decade’s long process for her. So don’t give up hope, and definitely stay tuned to this series, because there are other folks out there just like you that don’t have confirmed diagnoses. Mickey, what else would you say to her?

Mickey Trescott: I would say a positive ANA; so for those of you who don’t know what that is, that’s anti-nuclear antibodies, and that’s an antibody that by itself is not indicative of an autoimmune disease. So when they test the healthy population, a certain percentage of people have a positive ANA without any symptoms or other autoimmune disease. So that by itself; this is probably why your symptoms might not fall into the category of diseases that go with ANA. Which doesn’t mean you don’t have an autoimmune disease, but it’s part of the reason why it’s unclear. Because ANA isn’t really one of those things that’s very obvious.

Usually, there are more of the mixed connective tissue types of diseases, so things like lupus or Sjogren’s or rheumatoid arthritis, which affect kind of the way connective tissue affects the body. So maybe the joint, and some of the organs, and that kind of thing. So those are usually the diseases that a good rheumatologist will kind of look into.

If you’re one of these people that’s been searching for a long time, you really do feel like you’ve been seeing high level doctors and they’ve been testing you thoroughly and they’re still not coming up with anything, it really is ok to try to work on your own stuff before you get answers; and maybe in the absence of any answers ever.

A lot of people have that experience; I know I had this experience when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s and Celiac; I went through a period after my diagnosis where I started developing more symptoms. So I started to develop neurological symptoms; I started to develop some of these connective tissue symptoms. I did not have positive ANA; but I actually had a lot of markers for illnesses like lupus, and I was actually told that I very well could have that, but I needed to wait for 6 more months before I got a formal diagnosis, and in that period of time I discovered the autoimmune protocol, and slowly some of those symptoms started to peel away, so that diagnosis was no longer obvious.

I think for the people who are kind of waiting in that; you know, their body is just starting to kind of express those symptoms, and that’s why we have, in our book, we present autoimmunity as a spectrum and not just black or white. A lot of the people that are kind of in the middle of that spectrum, not really ready for diagnosis yet but experiencing autoimmune symptoms, those are the best people to try and work on your own. Work with diet; maybe see a functional medicine practitioner to try to root out some underlying issues, and then prevent going down that road of being diagnosed with a clear illness because of your symptoms, if that makes sense.

Angie Alt: Right. Yeah, I mean it’s definitely ok to start doing what you can on your own. Many of the principles that are part of the autoimmune protocol are just great principles for living a fuller, healthier life anyway; so even if autoimmune disease doesn’t turn out to be an underlier for you, some of the principles of the process could be positive.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, they could. You never really know until you try what level of success you’re going to see. So some people have been in that murky; like, how can I get diagnosed, I can’t really figure this out, and then they try the lifestyle and the diet changes, and they’re able to completely reverse whatever they’re symptoms were; and then that’s great. They know exactly what they put in, in order to get healthy, and they know how to avoid it for the future. And for some people, that’s best-case scenario, because then they never really have to deal with that mental part of getting a diagnosis and having to go through all that testing. It’s a lot.

3. Continuing AIP without an exact diagnosis [12:00]

Angie Alt: Right. So, the next question is kind of in this same category; it looks like Sue asked us. “Is it best, or do most people, continue on the autoimmune protocol diet for a long time, even without an exact diagnosis?”

Mickey Trescott: So, I think for people that don’t have a diagnosis, it’s the same. It doesn’t matter if you have a diagnosis or if you don’t. When you go onto the autoimmune protocol, the elimination diet; really the standard recommendation is 30 to 90 days. And that is to see if your body is responding; or basically to really see if there are any underlying issues. So you try the elimination diet for one to three months; and then if you have positive changes, it means that there were some food triggers in your diet that are affecting you. If you don’t have positive changes, then that’s time to go start working with a functional medicine practitioner, or a nutritional therapy practitioner, or someone who can really guide you on looking into those root causes. It doesn’t really matter if you have a diagnosis or not.

Of course, having a diagnosis might give you more information to be looking for clues about improvement. So, for instance. If you have Hashimoto’s disease, over time you might see your thyroid lab markers change. Or if you have Celiac disease, over time you might see your antibodies change. That’s where having a diagnosis, I think, helps you track; but it doesn’t really matter if you have a diagnosis or not when you go into the process, because the protocol is basically about feeling your own body and seeing how food affects you.

And this woman is talking about, “do most people continue it for a long time.” You know, we’ve reiterated this a lot. The autoimmune protocol; the elimination diet is not something that you do for a very long time without guidance. If you’re doing it for a very long time, expecting results and not getting results, that’s really a clear indicator that you need to bring in some outside support and trouble shoot a little bit.

Angie Alt: Right.

4. How long before reintroductions? [14:14]

Mickey Trescott: Alright. So Misha Cooks AIP; or it might be Misha, probably. Misha.

Angie Alt: Yeah, Misha.

Mickey Trescott: So she said she loved podcast season one.

Angie Alt: Thank you!

Mickey Trescott: “How long is it recommended to continue the strict phase of AIP before starting reintroductions after healing the gut. She says she has a program she’ll be starting from her functional medicine doctor.

Angie Alt: Well; there’s a couple of things here. First of all, the basic kind of guidance for everyone is that you need to stay for at least 30 days in the elimination phase of the autoimmune protocol. So, this is just to kind of give you a clean slate from which to be able to gauge reactions as you begin to reintroduce foods. And everybody does a minimum of 30 days there.

The reality is that for most of us with autoimmune diseases or other chronic illnesses that are using AIP to heal, a more ideal time frame is probably something like 60 to 90 days. You know; it takes time to reverse some of these health issues that have happened. Our autoimmune diseases didn’t develop overnight, and healing also doesn’t happen overnight. So you might need to dedicate a little more time.

Mickey Trescott: And also; it sounds like Misha has a functional medicine doctor; which is awesome that her doctor is involved. But you know; I would also add, too; if your doctor is giving you guidance that is a little bit different than ours, definitely go with what your doctor is saying, because we don’t really know anything about your history and your condition. And if you have a very long, deep history with autoimmune disease, your functional medicine doctor might actually say; you know, you need to do this for 6 months, or 9 months. They are the medical part of that equation. So it’s great that you’re working with someone, and that really applies to anyone who is working with a doctor. If their doctor says; you know what, you’re going to probably need a little more time here; that’s not something to be worried about, you know? That can happen.

Angie Alt: Right, exactly. And you know, that’s one thing I was going to add there. When you’re working with a doctor, and you’re going to be doing things like trying supplements or other kinds of treatments; you’re going to have a lot of variables happening, and a smart scientist always limits their variables, so they can better understand their outcome. So you might want to take it slow with reintroductions with a doctor guiding you in other areas.

Also; just as a rule of thumb, you know; again. If you have different guidance from your doctor, that applies. But if you get to 90 days and you’re not having any improvement, or you’re not seeing the improvement you would have expected to see, then it’s a good time to get somebody involved and helping you trouble shoot the process further to see if there are some underliers that are preventing progress. A lot of us have issues like gut dysbiosis; parasites; viral problems; things like that that might need treatment that isn’t going to happen with diet alone that can help you get further long with the protocol.

Mickey Trescott: We’re going to sound like a broken record after a while.

Angie Alt: Yep, we are.

Mickey Trescott: But we’re going to keep giving you guys the same answer no matter how many different ways you ask it.

5. Determining a detrimental reaction after reintroduction [17:31]

Angie Alt: {laughs} Let’s see; so Rochel asks, “How can you tell if a food that has been reintroduced after trying the AIP diet is having an adverse effect on you? For someone who suffers Graves’ disease, sometimes only the blood work will show whether there has been an adverse impact eating certain foods.”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; so Rochel, this is kind of where you want to get into food journaling and really careful food and symptom journaling. Because with Graves’ I agree, it is kind of hard; and Hashi’s is actually kind of similar in some ways where a lot of people don’t have very immediate changes in their symptoms, but when they go to their doctor and they have their thyroid labs taken, there is clear improvement or adverse reaction in their blood work.

So you’re going to be looking for really subtle things. So these are things like how your food plan is affecting your mood; how you’re sleeping at night; your digestion; your skin. And not necessarily like any rashes or any skin things that haven’t really healed; but more the brightness, and quality, and texture of your skin. So a lot of people find that when they transition to the autoimmune protocol, maybe they’re having a bowel movement every day, where as they used to have one every other day. And maybe their eyes seem a little bit clearer, and their skin is a little bit brighter. Maybe their energy is just subtly a little more steady a little more there. Those are the things that you’re going to find by tracking your symptoms really carefully, and also going in and getting your blood work taken and try to see how things are affecting you.

But then when you reintroduce those foods one at a time, you can be on the lookout for those subtle things that improved when you kind of make a little backslide; say maybe you introduce fats and seeds and then that night you don’t sleep as well as you normally do. Those are going to be the things that you’re looking for; they’re a lot more subtle.

Angie Alt: Right. It’s always a little tough with the thyroid folks, isn’t it?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, and there are; we’ve had some questions from people that have autoimmune disease that are very clear in the blood work, but aren’t as clear symptomatically; and for you, it might just mean how far you can expand your diet until it shows up in your blood work. That might be kind of a longer game that you’re working on with your practitioners. But really, you don’t need to eat a super restricted diet because you know that you have an autoimmune disease, but you don’t feel the effects of it yet; I would actually play with those boundaries and maybe open that up a little bit, try to include some egg yolks, and some nuts and seeds, and maybe some white rice. Just really expand it to where it makes it easier for you for a few months, and then get your lab work and see how going off the grains, and the gluten, the soy and all of that; how those foods that we know affect most of us are impacting you in a deep way. But that’s what I would do.

Angie Alt: Yeah.

6. Mickey and Angie’s personal experience with elimination and reintroduction [20:44]

Mickey Trescott: So the Copper Vase says, “How long did it take each of you to move through both the elimination and reintroduction phase of AIP? Any tips? I’m 4 months in and feeling overwhelmed because I seem to be triggered by everything.”

Angie Alt: Yeah, so for me the elimination phase was pretty long, actually. I tried after 6 months, sort of; I don’t know what the term is. Playfully the wrong word, but just not with a lot of careful scientific approach.

Mickey Trescott: Well there was no science back then.

Angie Alt: {laughs} Good point.

Mickey Trescott: Sometimes we have to remind people, it wasn’t like we were like, “Oh yeah, I think I’ll do this!” You know. Now, I wonder, people that follow our Instagram, I’ve heard of people that follow us for a year before actually trying it. Like it’s in the back of their mind. That wasn’t what it was like when we were at the beginning.

Angie Alt: Right. That’s a very good point, yeah. So The Copper Vase should know that; there wasn’t a lot of really super clear-cut guidance back then as there is now. You know, I tried after about 6 months a little bit with things like chocolate. But then I knew it really wasn’t working for me, so I waited longer. So I didn’t really get into concerted and careful reintroductions until after about a year.

Now, that’s not to say that I didn’t have improvement all along the process. I clearly knew within about 3 days that it was working, and by 6 weeks I had proof in my blood work that it was working. By the time that I got to about 2 to 3 months, I knew that there were probably some underliers that were preventing progress. I didn’t think it through in quite that eloquent way back then, but I knew that there was something still going on and I went through and did some testing with my doctors. And that’s when I discovered that I had SIBO; small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Which can’t be treated with diet alone; especially in adults. So I had to work through some of that before I could get to the reintro stage, too. Mickey, how long did it take you?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; so I had the complexity of coming from a vegan diet, so that transitioned from vegan to AIP took a couple of months. And there were a lot of issues with, like; I hadn’t eaten meant in so long, so I had to kind of slowly get the meat into the diet, and then learn how to cook it and that kind of stuff. And then there were some things I was really in denial about; like tomatoes. I actually did pretty fully compliant AIP without omitting tomatoes for a few months, because I was growing them in my garden and I just really didn’t want to own {laughs} that I could be sensitive to them, and I am actually very sensitive to them still.

So you know; like Angie said, there wasn’t a community. There weren’t other people out there doing it. When you read a couple of paragraphs in a book, and you go, “Hmm, maybe I’ll try that.” And then you’ve never heard of anyone ever doing it before, they’re just; it’s hard to do it. It’s hard to do it fully compliant and have all the cooking and everything figured out. So for me, it took about 2 months before I started noticing any changes. So it took a little while for me to start noticing, but the changes were there, and I was improving.

At 3 months, I started to introduce some foods; and I didn’t get any reintroduction. So everything that I tried, even nuts and seeds, eggs; they just didn’t work for me. So I was like; ok, I’m in this for the long haul. And it wasn’t until about 9 months that I started to be able to make those early reintroductions. You know; we’ve talked about the reintroductions before, but I haven’t been able to do dairy or tomatoes ever. But you know, now over the past 5 or what; gosh, are we going on 6 years now?

Angie Alt: Yeah. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: You know, I consider myself still in reintroduction. You know, I’m still figuring out almost every year, there’s a new nuance of; like nightshades that are, some of them I can do, some of them I can’t. So the reintroduction process is kind of like the rest of your life, you know. After doing AIP, and we’ve talked about the ebb and the flow; batten down the hatches, and unfurl the sails and just kind of going, expanding and contracting based on the situation. I think Angie and I have both done that a lot through our journeys.

And you know, for this woman it sounds like she is; “4 months in, feeling overwhelmed because they’re triggered by everything.” That was definitely me at 4 months, and I was kind of like; is this ever going to work, am I ever going to heal? Am I ever going to eat these foods again? Hang in there. As long as you’re not one of the people that’s literally seeing zero improvement, and probably has something underlying they need to handle and manage, that long-term; as long as you’re on that slow and steady, you’re probably still on the right track and it just needs a little more time, you know?

Angie Alt: Right, right. That would be my same exact advice. If you’re seeing good things starting to happen, don’t be overwhelmed by having trouble with the reintroductions. Just stay your course. And, on the flip side; if you’re not seeing anything good happen, there’s probably something underneath that probably needs a little more trouble shooting, and I would get some people on your team to help with that.

Mickey Trescott: And really track. You know; tracking is, we keep going back to it, but really learning how to track accurately can really help. Because even now, when I look back in my journals from back when I was recovering; I mean, some of the changes that I would see from month to month would be; “I can stand up without feeling like I’m going to pass out.” That was one month to the next, where I wrote that. I was like, “You know, I’m noticing that I just; my blood pressure is a little bit more normal.”

And it just seems like such a long time to go a whole month with just that change. But over time, those changes just magnify and they compound. You collect them, and then you just realize that; oh my gosh, I feel so much better than I did two years ago! And you don’t really know how you got there; you know. So that tracking is really valuable.

Angie Alt: Right.

7. Adding more greens, keeping them interesting [26:49]

Mickey Trescott: Let’s see; we have some other questions today. Kind of moving away from the reintroduction questions; Hey I’m Still There asks; oh no. Hey I’m Still Here asks, “How do I get more greens in my life and how do I make them interesting?”

Angie Alt: Well I just learned an awesome recipe from my friend Mary about how to cook greens. Which, you know; I think we can all kind of get in ruts with certain foods. It’s like greens, sweet potatoes; there’s a lot of those AIP foods that we eat over and over that’s kind of like; ok, let’s make this more fun.

Mickey Trescott: Right.

Angie Alt: So, what we’ve been doing. Well, what I’ve been doing at Mary’s recommendation is sautéing a little bit of kale, like in some coconut oil or some duck fat, and then adding a little bit of bone broth to kind of give them some moisture and let them simmer in that. And then add some sea salt; and actually you don’t even need much sea salt. Like an anchovy fillet, just kind of minced up in some garlic, it’s really, really flavorful. It’s a little bit more of like a cooked, more of a steamed-braised green, but the anchovies just add a really nice flavor. Anchovies are a cold water, fatty fish, so they’re really high in omega-3 fats. They also add a little more of an interesting flavor, so that’s how we’ve been cooking them. Do you have any good green’s ideas?

Mickey Trescott: You know, one of my favorite ways to eat greens is to take rainbow chard, or swiss chard, and cut it up real thin into ribbons, and then sauté in a little bit of, usually lard at my house. We’re pretty big fans of lard. Sautee in a little bit of lard, and season with just a little bit of salt, and just leave it there. Just like real simple; I find that chard is, to me, one of the most flavorful greens.

Another way to work in greens is to not forget the tops that come on things, like beets for instance. Beet greens are actually really great for you. They’re especially very supportive of gallbladder health; so finding greens in those ways can be a good way to get it in.
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Another thing we do in our house tends to be a lot of spinach, and spinach combined with citrus is a great way to make sure that you get the iron that’s in the spinach.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, because that vitamin C is a cofactor.

Angie Alt: Cofactor; yep, exactly. So we’ll make a lemon or an orange dressing; just a little bit of olive oil, and some lemon juice or orange juice, and shake it up good in a jar and pour it over the spinach and enjoy a salad that way with a little bit of; you know, tangy citrus flavor.

8. Getting in calcium [29:56]

Angie Alt: Let’s see; Megan asks, “How do you get enough calcium without dairy products?” Interesting that we just talked about the greens, huh Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I know. So actually the answer to that question is; greens are actually a really good source of calcium, so all of the things that we just talked about; kale, chard, beet greens, turnip greens, spinach, that kind of stuff; really great for the calcium.

Another thing to add, which you know, if you guys aren’t already; bone broth, hello? When you’re slow cooking those bones for a long time, it’s not like this super massive source of calcium, but you are simmering the bones, and putting a little acid, so that cider vinegar, a little lemon, helps extract the minerals out of the bones. So that’s another source of calcium. Also eating fish; like sardines, because you eat the whole fish, you’re eating the bones, so that has some calcium in it, too.

But generally, the Paleo Mom actually; Sarah Ballantyne, has a really great post on her site about calcium content in food and the autoimmune protocol if you guys want to get into the science, there’s a pretty great read on this topic. But really, dairy isn’t the greatest source of calcium. You know, it’s very hard to digest in dairy, and actually it doesn’t have a lot of the cofactors that we need to digest the calcium. So, with most people that are actually lacking in calcium, what they need in order to get the calcium into their bones is to make sure they’re getting enough fat soluble vitamins. So things like vitamin D, vitamin A, vitamin K2. So anyone with osteoporosis or dealing with tooth issues are just generally worried about their calcium. I would actually be more worried about those fat soluble vitamins, and either trying to find foods that have them, or trying to supplement with them if you’re trying to make some gains in the calcium department.

Angie Alt: Right. For most of us; even if we’re not eating dairy products, calcium isn’t about not getting enough of it in our diets, it’s about having the right cofactors in place for our body to use it.

9. Resource for finding natural doctors [32:09]

Angie Alt: Ok, we’ve got one more here Mickey.

Mickey Trescott: Let’s go for it.

Angie Alt: Chick With Taste says, “What’s the best resource to find doctors or naturopaths that can help with Hashimoto’s or other autoimmune diseases? I’m looking for someone who can help me heal and recover naturally, and test completely instead of just TSH.”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; so the first place that I would look, I think we’ve talked on the podcast before about our community update. But if you guys haven’t heard of that before, we have a page on our site; www.autoimmunewellness.com. Just go to little search bar in the right-hand side bar, and type in “community update”, and you’ll get the latest one. And what that is is a post with listings of all the AIP support groups nationally and worldwide; there are a lot of them. I think there are over 80 of them. So we have groups broken up; Northern California, Southern California. We even have Kansas, and Florida, and Egypt, the most recent. So there are places all over the world, and I would start with the group that’s closest to your location, and I would just ask. “Hey, is anyone working with a good thyroid doctor in my area?” or whatever.

Getting a referral from someone that already eats this way, and already kind of is on this lifestyle, they might have a connection to a doctor that kind of knows about AIP, and that would be ideal. Second choice, for some people not everyone is going to find a doctor in their area through word of mouth, and that’s ok. There are a lot of online databases that have information about practitioners that are not just conventional. So some places that I would look are like www.paleophysiciansnetwork.com, so these are going to be kind of more paleo trained doctors. You could also go to www.primaldocs.com, which is in the same vein; primal, you know not trained, but doctors that have kind of an ancestral or primal philosophy. The institute for functional medicine; they certify and train a lot of practitioners. Some of them are doctors; some of them are conventionally trained, some of them are naturopaths. But they have a resource on your website where you can put in your zip code and you can find a doctor near you.

And then for thyroid specific people, finding thyroid specific support groups and asking is a good way. Also looking for thyroid advocacy organizations. So Hashimoto’s Awareness; I think they might have a running list. Thyroid Change I think has a list; so finding those doctors in your area. And then lastly; if all of those options, you can’t find a doctor, a way that I’ve used to find a local doctor is to call a local compounding pharmacy and ask them which doctors in the area are prescribing compounded thyroid medication. I know that sounds like; weird! That’s kind of a weird way to find a doctor; but actually it’s the doctors that are prescribing compounded medications are usually more open minded about testing and treatment. So of course, it’s no guarantees that you’re going to find an amazing doctor, but from there, if you get a list you can kind of call different offices, see what they charge, see what their training is like and see if that might fall into line with what you’re looking for. But I think those are some great options.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Those are very super sleuth ways to find a good doctor eventually.

Mickey Trescott: And sometimes you have to go through a couple. You know; how many doctors have you gone through for a particular issue just to find the right now?

Angie Alt: Right. Right; sometimes it takes a lot of commitment on our parts to find the collaborative person to be on your team.

So alright. I think our time is up for answering questions today. Thanks to everyone for submitting; we hope you learned a lot over the course of this episode. We try to give you guys as much info as we can. Have a great day everyone! We’ll see you next week with a personal interview.

Mickey Trescott: Bye guys!

Angie Alt: Bye!

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Check out the previous episode, S2 E2 Mickey interviews Susan McCauley, who is recovering from ulcerative proctitis. For the full podcast archive, click here.

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 2 is the first of our interview episodes this season! This week, Mickey sits down with her friend Susan McCauley to discuss Susan’s experience managing an unidentified autoimmune condition for many years. Susan was eventually diagnosed with ulcerative proctitis, but her healing approach has been all about addressing the root causes from the beginning.

Susan and Mickey dig into what it was like for Susan to finally receive a diagnosis, they myriad treatments and tests she underwent, low-dose naltrexone, stress management, and the importance of a support system. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Introducing our guest, Susan, and her autoimmune wellness story [3:19]
2. Officially a diagnosis [8:14]
3. Varying treatments and testing [18:07]
4. Low-dose naltrexone [24:24]
5. Stress management and sleep [28:31]
6. Having a support system [35:48]
7. Tips for the beginning of your autoimmune journey [40:21]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. We are in season 2 of the podcast. This is Mickey if you guys haven’t figured out the differences between Angie and mine voice yet. Today I am doing a personal interview with my friend Susan; hey Susan.

Susan: Hey Mickey! How’s it going?

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. Susan is one of my AIP and paleo BFFs. We met at PaleoFx; gosh, 3 years ago?

Susan: It was actually AHS.

Mickey Trescott: Oh! AHS, yep. So there we go.

Susan: And it was longer than that.

Mickey Trescott: Four!

Susan: I think it was 4 years ago.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Susan: Yeah, 4 years ago.

Mickey Trescott: I was looking for a ride home from the airport, and Susan had a rental car, and she was also picking up Ben Greenfield, so I got to meet him. So Susan was one of my first paleo friends.

Susan: And Mickey was one of mine. And we had the same shoes on, and it was like; BFFs at first site.

Mickey Trescott: Yep! {laughs}

Susan: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Basically. We couldn’t not be friends.

Susan: Yes, exactly. It was meant to be.

Mickey Trescott: So I’m really excited to share a little bit of Susan’s story today because Susan is one of these people who hasn’t had a clear autoimmune diagnosis from the outset, but she has done a really great job at kind of tirelessly working out some of these root causes and kind of still working on some of that; we’ll talk about that. And I think she just has such a great attitude about the healing journey. She’s also a coach, so she has a lot of experience about this stuff. But Susan, thank you so much for being here; joining us from California. You ready to get started?

Susan: Sure; shoot. Go ahead.

1. Introducing our guest, Susan, and her autoimmune wellness story [3:19]

Mickey Trescott: Alright. So, I know that this question is a little bit more complicated for you; but tell me a little bit about your autoimmune disease, and what you first noticed when you first realized maybe that’s something you were struggling with.

Susan: Well, I first had symptoms a long time ago. I kind of am the example of what not to do, or how to go about everything backwards. I didn’t come to paleo because I was sick; I came to paleo because I wanted to lose weight, and because I had kind of developed a binge eating disorder from all the yo-yo dieting, so I was trying to change my relationship with food. But my first autoimmune symptoms; I have ulcerative proctitis, which is like the cousin of ulcerative colitis. It’s just less severe, and in the lower part; the distal part of the colon. I had symptoms as early as probably 10 years ago; which I don’t know how much TMI about symptoms is on your podcast {laughs}.

Mickey Trescott: Anything goes. We talk about poop all the time.

Susan: So basically, bleeding; rectal bleeding, bleeding when you have your bowel movements, and it started when I was doing the yo-yo dieting and the Weight Watchers; and paid attention to conventional wisdom on things like fiber. And I remember one time I ate four Fiber One bars; and I don’t know if you’ve ever had one of those, but they have like; I don’t know how much fiber in them, but they’re like a cookie, you know? And I had a binge eating problem. So one is delicious; four even more delicious. And that’s when the gut problems started.

I went to Kaiser, and they did a sigmoidoscopy; I think that’s what you call it, it’s been so long. And then they gave me some medication and told me not to eat too many vegetables; that was it. You know; it was basically, “take some medication; you have to take it, and you might have ulcerative colitis, right now we’re just going to call it undetermined.”

Mickey Trescott: And you got this diagnosis once you had been paleo for a little while, too, right?

Susan: I didn’t get the official diagnosis until much later. This was way before paleo, when I was doing the yo-yo dieting. I didn’t know it was autoimmune; it didn’t have a name. It said, you might have ulcerative colitis, but you’re too old to get ulcerative colitis. Most people get it in their 20s.

Mickey Trescott: Isn’t that funny how you need to be a picture of a disease when you walk into a doctor’s office; otherwise you get kind of thrown out, door slammed behind you?

Susan: Yeah. So they just gave me the suppositories and told me I had to take them every day, so I took them for a little bit and of course it worked. And then I kind of forgot about it; and it would come and go over the years. Enter paleo, and I think in a way, paleo prevented me from getting my diagnosis as soon as I probably would have gotten it if I would have kept eating the Standard American Diet. Because I took gluten out; and I had some other health issues, inflammatory issues, pain related, so I decided that I was not; even though when I ate gluten I didn’t immediately feel bad, but once I took it out, a lot of things got better including my UP symptoms. And so I would go for 3, 4, 5, 6 months without any symptoms; and then they would come, and then they would go.

But I was a bandwagon jumper in early paleo days; whatever the newest thing that came down the road; Susan was like, potato starch; if you have ulcerative proctitis, potato starch is probably one of the last things that you {laughs} should do. And of course I would be doubled over in pain.

Mickey Trescott: You didn’t jump on the AIP bandwagon back then, though.

Susan: I did though.

Mickey Trescott: Eventually. {laughs}

Susan: I didn’t jump on the bandwagon, but of course I was one of those people; and this is what I totally tried to make sure people understand about AIP now; AIP is not more perfect paleo.

Mickey Trescott: Amen, sister.

Susan: You know? So when I wasn’t losing weight, and I’m using my little air quotes, well I just needed to eat less foods. So I did do 30 days of AIP, but never the full Sarah Ballantyne AIP where you take out all seed spices. I took out the bases; the Robb Wolf, Whole30 AIP list, you know what I mean.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Susan: And I never planned my reintroductions correctly, because I always had; like, I did AIP 30 days before Thanksgiving. And then of course, you can’t just do one thing at a time, so I never really got the full impact of what I think AIP could have been for me. And I still didn’t have an AIP diagnosis.

2. Officially a diagnosis [8:14]

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I was going to say, that was at a point where you still didn’t even really know that you had an autoimmune disease. Tell me about how you got the official diagnosis, and what that felt like when you made the connection that it was actually an autoimmune disease.

Susan: So, my chief symptoms, the reason I came to paleo; I talk about the binge eating disorder. I also suffer from severe fatigue. So my digestive symptoms always made it lower on the symptom list, whenever I talked to any kind of functional medicine person. So they were never really; and I think that’s my fault, and that’s part of the communication and collaboration; sometimes we don’t know that those symptoms are part of something bigger. And to me, losing weight was really important, and my fatigue was really important, so I was always trying to focus. That’s where that bandwagon jumping comes on. Adrenals, thyroid; what could it be? Going through all that whole list.

It wasn’t until, I think it was Mickey; it was Mickey. It was at AHS in Berkeley, which was how many years ago? 2014.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, 2.5 years, yeah.

Susan: It was 2014, and that was right around when I decided that the pain was back, the blood; the bleeding was really quite severe. And I knew I was getting older, and I knew the implications. The colon isn’t a thing to mess with; when you’re pushing towards; I’m going to be 50 this year.

Mickey Trescott: Well and with some of those diseases, they take it away when it’s really inflamed. They remove it.

Susan: And Mickey said something to me; because she saw how many tomatoes I was actually eating back then, and she said; “Maybe you might want to think about cutting out nightshades.” And of all the things on the autoimmune protocol that I don’t want to give up; and sometimes it’s that thing that you don’t want to give up, is the thing that you need to give up; was nightshades, because I love Mexican food; I love tomatoes. We used to grow 3 tomato plants every year, my husband and I; and I would fill up big huge Tupperware full of cherry tomatoes and just eat on them all day. That was August 2014; and then I decided to talk to my doctor; my regular old, MD. And he referred me to a GI doctor who said I needed a colonoscopy. Because I thought I had SIBO, because that was the bandwagon I was jumping on then, you know what I mean? {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Susan: And he’s like; no, see that’s not where; even though, to me still, where he said I was bloated. To me still, that is still part of my small intestine, as well, so it could have been. So he did the colonoscopy, and then he said, “You don’t have cancer” which I think is what every doctor, after they do a colonoscopy, tells people. “Don’t worry, you don’t have cancer, but you have ulcerative proctitis.” And he was Indian, with a very heavy accent, and I said; I knew about ulcerative colitis, but I’d never heard of ulcerative proctitis, and I said, “Is that an autoimmune disease?” And he said yes; and then he said, “Here’s your prescription, you need to take this medicine every day for the rest of your life; and here’s a low-residue, low-fiber diet protocol.” And handed it to me.

Luckily; I had known Mickey {laughs}, and luckily all the places we’d gone to; all the seminars, and conventions, and conferences, is that I kind of, through Mickey, surrounded myself with AIP people. So I did cut the nightshades out, and I don’t eat a lot of nuts still to this day. I know that I don’t digest them well so I don’t really eat them often. I’ve learned, though; I just can’t eat anything every day. I can’t eat eggs every day; I can eat eggs occasionally. But the nightshades were the magic bullet, you know. And it was hard; and I didn’t eat a tomato for 2 years, and I didn’t eat a pepper or anything; and at home I still don’t.

But I did some more research; and I didn’t go back to that doctor because I didn’t understand the whole collaboration thing until Autoimmune Wellness Handbook, and I just thought I could do it on my own, you know.

Mickey Trescott: Well part of it; part of it is guiding that process. But I think, too, when you’re presented with only conventional options and no input from a doctor as far as, “Hey I’m trying this thing for myself, and it’s kind of working, can you keep monitoring?” A lot of doctors don’t really care to follow-up with a patient who is working like that, you know, so it’s hard.

Susan: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: And I think too; Susan, you and I are pretty similar in the sense that we went off, and we studied nutrition, and we go to conferences, and we do a lot of reading; like, self-knowledge is really important to us, so it’s tempted to just be like, “I got this. I got this.” You know?

Susan: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: And I do it too; still.

Susan: And I did, and the nightshades were huge, but I would still have periods; like I had a flare last, right before NTA conference last year. I had a really bad flare; and I don’t know if I had gotten glutened or what had happened. So when I had that flare, it was kind of a wakeup call that I needed to find a new GI doc, and I needed to find one that specialized in my autoimmune; that recognized autoimmune for what it was, and just, “Here’s a medication to take every day for the rest of your life.”

So my husband actually did the research, and found me a doc at Stanford, which I live in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco Bay area, so Stanford is like the gold standard. We had a great talk about my autoimmune disease. He said how far along; further along I was than any of his patients, because I had gotten the diet down. He recognized that certain foods weren’t good for people with ulcerative proctitis; although he also wanted me to get a flu shot and make sure to wear SPF 80 on my face.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Susan: Because {laughs} people with autoimmune disease can get sick more often. {laughing}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Susan: But he does have me on a regimen now, where we’re going to; he brought to my attention the fact that just because I don’t have symptoms, doesn’t mean that the tissue in my colon is healthy.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Susan: It’s a sign that it could be; but it still could not. It could be just that it’s not unhealthy enough to bleed, it could still be inflamed. So he said what we needed to do, is he has me on a regimen where I took my medication every day for 30 days; then it was every other day for 30 days; and now I’m on every; he didn’t recommend going to every 3 days, but I’m on every 3 days {laughs}.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Susan: And I have to say that it’s been the time that it’s been, at the same time keeping my diet super clean; is that I’ve been, my digestion has probably been better than it ever has been. And I’m scheduled to go in for a colonoscopy; we haven’t met our deductible yet, so I’m kind of procrastinating at the moment. I know it’s going to take up the whole deductible, so we have some financial insecurity at the moment. To be able to see; now I know I’ve been asymptomatic for going on 4 months; what does that tissue look like under the microscope? And that is the true definition of remission. So that’s kind of where I’m at right now and working towards.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I think that’s good for a lot of people to hear, too. Because I think when they find something that’s kind of working for them; whether it’s a combination of medications and diet, maybe it’s just diet; it’s tempting to say, “Well the symptoms went away. This is great, I’m fine, I’m free.” A lot of times, there’s that really deep, that inside out; that kind of healing takes a lot longer, and sometimes it might take a combination of therapies. I think that’s helpful for people to hear; even someone like you, who is very into the real food nutrition; you live and breathe this stuff, but you’re still getting help from a conventional doctor and integrating that with what you’re learning and what you’re doing for yourself.

Susan: And the crazy thing is; the medication; so like I said we haven’t met our deductible yet this year, so I had to refill. Well, I’m supposed to refill the medication, and I still have some left, I’m not going to go without it. But without my deductible, 30 days of that medication is $950.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Susan: And that’s just ridiculous; I can’t imagine how people do it, that don’t have the diet locked in, that are able to go to every 3 days, and to make that $900 stretch for 3 months, or 4 months instead of having to reup every 30 days. And you know; in all honesty, and this might be too TMI. Putting a suppository in every night is not fun. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs} Yeah. I mean, a lot of, from a lot of angles, we would save our entire healthcare system so much money if people got the prevention part and kind of were taking the things that they could do more seriously, and not needing to take so much medication. I mean, a lot of people think of the side effects and the long-term stuff that comes along with taking medication, but the toll that it takes on your finances, and your health insurance plan, is totally another angle of it; depending that people live in the US, you know how tricky it is right now with healthcare for us.

Susan: Right.

3. Varying treatments and testing [18:07]

Mickey Trescott: So, talk to me a little bit about some of the other things that you’ve trouble shooted along the way. Is there anything that you’ve done, or any kind of treatments; it doesn’t have to be completely related to the autoimmune thing, but what kind of deeper testing have you done to kind of get to the root of different things.

Susan: Well, most recently it was a year ago; actually more than a year ago, it was in August 2015. I’m sorry, no, January 2016; so just over a year ago, I started seeing Dr. Amy Net, who is part of Chris Kresser’s practice, about my fatigue. Because my fatigue in all reality, it ebbs and flows, but for the last couple of years it’s been pretty down. I’ve had a lot of stress; which we can talk about lifestyle and stress management later, but I was just continually seeking the, “Is my fatigue something that there’s a deeper root cause?” And we didn’t mention this, but in my past life, I’m actually in recovery from drugs and alcohol. So over almost 20 years ago, I did a lot of methamphetamine. And I’m not sure if that has a possibility; because I stayed awake for a lot of days in a row at some point.

Mickey Trescott: So you’re paying for it now maybe.

Susan: Am I paying for it; you know, I don’t know? What does that do to your brain? I don’t think anybody really knows. But is that a possibility? Is that something at some point I’m just going to say; Ok, I’m just going to live with kind of being sluggish and fatigued a lot of the time?

So I went to Dr. Net as my last-ditch effort. I’m going to go, and I’m going to have her go through everything, and see if there’s anything. Because I know autoimmune, fatigue is part of the symptoms of autoimmune. Even though I’m not having GI symptoms; fatigue and taking care of that part of yourself is super important; and she ran some tests for chronic inflammatory response syndrome; CIRS; and I tested off the charts. Which is a biotoxin illness, usually predicated by some kind of mold or mold exposure, which could have been at any time in my life. I live in a new house; it’s only 8 years old. It’s not my house. I’ve had my house tested; which was a big chunk of change, if anybody has to do that.

And I went on the beginning of the protocol; and so far, it just seems like my numbers haven’t gone done. We’re still trying to peel back that onion. I leave the rabbit-holing now to my doctor, because I get too wrapped up in things, and I have to kind of step back. So yes, there are some genetic markers that they test you for, and I have been negative for all of those. So it’s one of those things that I was probably just exposed; but it’s kind of the better of the two. You can have been exposed, and your exposure was such that you are sick; but you aren’t exposed as such that every little thing is going to make you sick moving forward. Which a lot of people with CIRS; it does happen. They go to a hotel, and there might be a little bit of mold, and they end up really sick.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. What I think is most interesting is that a lot of these people, just removing themselves from the situation, or the space, it doesn’t go away. Sometimes they can have it for decades until they actually treat that underlying root cause, and kind of get their inflammation down and get them healthy again, which I find fascinating.

Susan: Yeah. I even had a brain MRI to look; because it does affect your brain, and I do have this, what they call atrophy, which is really scary. Your brain has some atrophy. So the next step is something called VIP spray; and I haven’t started that because it can affect smooth muscle tissue; which it can affect your pancreas, and my fasting lipase has been high, and I can’t take it while that’s high, so we’re trying to figure out what that’s high. Because I don’t do drugs, and I don’t have any kind of pain, so the next step is either to get my pancreas ultrasound; or Dr. Net digging; Dr. Schumacher is the pioneer all this stuff; digging in deep with him to kind of see if he has anybody else that has chronic, elevated fasting lipase.

Mickey Trescott: It’s so interesting; what is your feeling working with someone who, Dr. Net is kind of at the cutting edge of this stuff. Do you feel like that is reducing your tendency to figure that out for yourself online?

Susan: Yes.

Mickey Trescott: Just kind of set back and let her guide it.

Susan: Let her drive.

Mickey Trescott: How does that feel?

Susan: it feels good. In recent; I think over the last year, I’ve had to really take stock that I have to stay; I can’t listen to every paleo and real food and nutritional and medical podcast out there. I can’t read every book that’s there. That kind of contributes to my stress, and I really had to find somebody able to drive to cart for me, and that’s Dr. Net. She; it’s kind of relaxing, you know. She makes the decisions, and I start Googling stuff and it’s like; “Susan, you have an appointment in 3 weeks with Dr. Net.” I had a thing on my brain MRI that said I had white lesions, and I started Googling that; and I’m like, you know what, you need to stop. And you know what; we haven’t even brought it up. Because obviously, she’s a radiologist; she saw my MRI. If she thought it was something to be concerned about, she would have brought it up with me.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Susan: So, I really had to step back, and like I said, let her drive and let her make the decisions and just recently, less than 2 weeks ago, we started on LDN, for my ulcerative proctitis, and I also have some chronic pain.

4. Low-dose naltrexone [24:24]

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; so I don’t think we talked about LDN at all yet on the podcast; do you want to give people a little overview of what it is and how it works; just really, really simply.

Susan: So LDN; I’ll do it simply because I might not have all the techy information.

Mickey Trescott: Oh you’re so smart, Susan.

Susan: {laughs} It’s low-dose naltrexone, and naltrexone is a drug; and I might get it wrong, is it, it’s an opiate agonist. So what that means in layman’s terms is that it helps your endorphins and it helps your own immune system kind of calm things down. And when you have autoimmune, we know that your immune system is upregulated, and it’s sensitive. And we want to kind of calm things down. It works with dopamine, it works with your endorphins. To do that; it’s a very inexpensive drug. Even compounded, 3 months is $80, so that’s a pretty good deal. The drug has been around for a really long time for drug and alcohol treatment, so people take that because if they take that and then they take opiate medication, it doesn’t do anything for them. So naltrexone itself has been around for a really time.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, and it’s had quite a buzz, I think, in the community just because people’s experiences vary; some people have almost miraculous results using it, and some people don’t notice any changes. But it really doesn’t have any side effects, and what’s been your experience transitioning to it? I’ll be there are some people that are curious.

Susan: There are side effects. And the side effects are sleep related. So you have to be very vigilant, which brings to the whole lifestyle factor. Sleep is my number one, on my list of priorities; above food. Above food. Sleep is my number one priority, so my sleep is dialed in, which is good. So if your sleep wasn’t dialed in; what happens is, you take the medication before you go to bed, and you start at a small dose. You start at 1.5 mg for 30 days, then you go to 3, then to 4.5, which is the actual dose. Dr. Net says sometimes you can be at 3, and a lot of patients feel good just right there. They don’t feel any different between 4.5 and 3, so they back down to 3.

So what happens is you take it before you go to bed, and you go to sleep fine, but it could wake up around 3 or 4 o’clock, and it has to do with the endorphins and the dopamine, and how it works in different people’s bodies.

Mickey Trescott: Some people have dreams; have you been having dreams.

Susan: Yeah, I have dreams. I’m a crazy dreamer to begin with. I sat this morning; my husband came back up when I was getting up and crawled into bed, and I started telling him all my crazy dreams. He’s like, “Wow! You have really crazy dreams!” {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Susan: But I’ve always been that way. But it does wake you up, and you have kind of vivid dreams. And then it makes it kind of hard to go back to sleep, because it’s kind of woken you up. But it doesn’t last. The first day was fine; and then days 2 through 8 kind of sucked, but now it seems to have rectified itself.

Mickey Trescott: Ok.

Susan: But I haven’t noticed any difference. Usually takes weeks or months.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm; yeah, I’ve usually heard with people that I’ve worked with at least a month, maybe the 6-week mark is when they start to notice some changes, and they can be subtle at first.

Susan: Yeah. And I want to be on it for a significant amount of time before I get my colonoscopy, so then it’s kind of in there with maybe my regimen is the LDN and maybe taking the Canasa, which is the name of the medication, once or twice a week. Who knows.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. Hack all the things to make a blend; that’s what we teach here. A blend of the best of conventional; the best of natural, the best of the things you could do for yourself to kind of figure out what works for you. I love that.

Susan: Mm-hmm; definitely.

5. Stress management and sleep [28:31]

Mickey Trescott: So, you’ve alluded a little bit to the stress management piece and sleep. Talk a little bit about some of your routines around stress management and sleep; because podcast listeners have heard a lot about diet, and a lot of things they can do to transition to the diet. But I think consistently, once people change their diets, this is where they have the hardest time. So I’m interested in hearing your biggest tips and things that really work for you.

Susan: So; sleep is like my thing. I had a horrible sleep regimen before, and I didn’t even know. I didn’t understand; I thought you went to bed; it’s because I’m older, so people are going to go; “Oh my god, she is really old.” I thought you went to bed after Jay Leno was on. It was like Jay Leno…

Mickey Trescott: You want to hear something sad? I don’t know when Jay Leno is on.

Susan: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Susan: I know, and I used to fall asleep to the TV every night. You’d put on Jay Leno, or whatever, and then later on.

Mickey Trescott: Was that like midnight?

Susan: It’s like 11:30; I think he’s on after the 11 o’clock news. I don’t even watch; I don’t know what we did before DVRs and the internet TV-wise, because I can’t watch those shows that are very intense at 10 o’clock at night, which is the time the good ones are on.

So when we first started eating paleo and reading about sleep, this was our sleep regimen. We watched TV in bed until we fell asleep and set the time; and then I got up to an alarm, hitting the snooze probably 7-8 times, and was always sleepy. And then we instituted little things a little bit at a time.

The first thing was a bedtime. You figure out your bedtime by what time you need to get up; you figure out what time you need to get up, and you subtract 8 hours, and that’s what time you need to go to bed; not when Jay Leno is over, or Jimmy Fallon, or Steven Colbert. You pick your bedtime; if you have to get up at 6, your bedtime is 10 o’clock; or sometimes people need a little bit more. But 8 hours is a good start. So we started with bedtime.

Oh, first of all we stopped watching TV in bed. Which was funny because my husband {laughs} thought that he needed the TV to fall asleep, because he suffered from insomnia before he met me, he had a big battle with insomnia. And he goes, “But it really helps me fall asleep.” And I said, can we just try it for one week? And I encourage people, if they’re dealing with a significant other, just ask them to try something for a week. Then there’s no skin in the game; it’s a week. You can do anything for a week, right. So we stopped the TV for a week; that was our plan, and 3 days into it we woke up, and he goes, “I hate it when they’re right about stuff like this.” {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Susan: He goes, “I have never slept better in my life.” So the TV has been off since then. Of course when we’re sick, or on the weekend or something. But, during the week, no TV in bed. Bedtime, then I got the orange goggles; and they really work people. If you haven’t tried the orange goggles, they are; I can say, “I think I’m not going to be able to go to sleep tonight” and right after dinner I put my orange goggles on, and sure enough it starts making my drowsy. My cousin calls them the sleeping pill of eyewear. I even have, now that I have readers, I have tinted readers that I use to read in bed at night.

Mickey Trescott: I need to get a pair of those.

Susan: Yeah, they’re pretty awesome. Readers.com has a couple of different tinted lenses, and they’re pretty cheap. So the orange goggles; as soon as dinner is over, all the lights go down in our house. We have dimmers. The kitchen lights go off, dimmers; no electronics or anything an hour before that bedtime. So I have an old-school back-lit kindle that I read in bed, and I never get to that 10 o’clock, really. I start to read an hour before bed, and 9:30 comes, and I’m usually ready to turn the light out. Turn the Kindle light out and go to bed. We have an orange-amber lightbulb in my nightstand, so that’s the light that’s in the bedroom at night.

And then I wake up with a vibrating alarm. I still use an alarm; I’ve gone a year without one, but now I have to get up so early to battle the traffic of the Silicon Valley that I have to set an alarm. But I using a vibrating Fitbit alarm instead of that big loud iPhone alarm, and I think that really helps. I don’t snooze an alarm ever; it goes off, I get up.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, we put our alarms in the other room so we have to get up to turn it off.

Susan: Yeah. And all my electronics are out of the bedroom. We still have a TV in the bedroom, but it’s not on. But my phone, my iPad, everything is nowhere near my bed so I have no reason to look at in the middle of the night. And then we’ve taped over every single light; even our, what is it, smoke alarm, has a little blinking light. Everything has a light these days. So we’ve got black tape over everything; we have blackout curtains. I keep earplugs next to my bed, because I have cats that like to scratch and purr and yowl in the middle of the night; and I sleep with something over my eyes, whether it’s a soft T-shirt or an eye mask; those kinds of things. And when I travel, earplugs and eye mask.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Susan: Always come with me.

Mickey Trescott: Yep. I love that. Great tips. You’ve got all the tools in the toolbox. But when you know that sleep is the most important thing. Like you said, for you, it’s even more important than food; a lot of people might be listening and be like; “wow, that’s a lot of routine for the sleep.” But it’s like being that organized, and meal planning, and batch cooking for the food. You just have to set yourself up for success, and be ready.

Susan: And once you get used to it, I just do it. Like the glasses; they’re on the kitchen table. So we finish dinner; I do the cooking and he does the cleaning; and so I grab the glasses. 9 o’clock, we watch a couple of shows at night; at 9 o’clock or before the TV goes off. And we go upstairs.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, when it’s a routine and you do it together, it doesn’t seem that weird.

Susan: Yeah. And it doesn’t seem hard, because we’ve been doing it. And it helps us. I know when I get less than 7.5 hours of sleep, first of all it’s hard for me to eat correctly because I crave all kinds of carbs and fat together, and my body does not run well on both carbs and fat together in huge amounts. But your body is looking for energy, and those are the biggest; the sources of energy. And I just feel horrible; I’m foggy headed, besides being a nutrition coach, I’m also an accountant and I have to look at detailed numbers and be very on, and fuzzy headed and accounting does not work. And it gets my clients mad at me, and I don’t like that.

6. Having a support system [35:48]

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; totally. Well, talk to me a little bit about support. Have you had any stand out supporters; anyone who’s kind of cheer-leaded you through all the phases of your journey?

Susan: Well I’ve had you, Mickey. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Oh my gosh, you can’t see me, that doesn’t work.

Susan: Well you helped because of the whole nightshade thing.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, we support each other.

Susan: Yeah. It’s so crazy; I think about going to the conferences, and I don’t drink; sometimes that’s the only; it’s not hard for me because I’ve been not drinking for a really long time, and I don’t need to change the way I feel to have fun or be happy; but when I hang around the AIP people they’re not really big drinkers either.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs} Well, if they’re on the elimination diet, they’re not drinkers {laughs}.

Susan: Exactly.

Mickey Trescott: They shouldn’t be.

Susan: So we’ve had an Air BNB where other paleo people have come over to our house and said our garbage looks a lot different than their garbage {laughs}.

Mickey Trescott: Oh my gosh. {laughs}

Susan: Because they’re on conference, they’re having a good time.

Mickey Trescott: Our garbage has like kombucha and Hail Mary’s.

Susan: Yeah, kombucha and sauerkraut.

Mickey Trescott: And sauerkraut.

Susan: But my husband has been; you know, ever since forever, since I’ve known him. Which I’ve only known him 9 years; but through my whole journey, through the binge eating. He’s the one that found Whole30; that’s how I started paleo. I couldn’t control what I was eating any longer. I was doing Weight Watchers; I was doing CrossFit and Weight Watchers at the same time. I advise you to never try anything like that; severely undereating and doing crazy exercise do not go well together; there’s never a good end to that.

But he’s the one; and when I said at the time, this is funny. He was drinking; literally, not figuratively, literally a 12-pack of diet coke a day.

Mickey Trescott: Is anyone ringing the bell with the insomnia? {laughs}

Susan: I know! When I first met him, and when he first moved in with me I didn’t realize how much diet coke he was drinking. And then I realized he was drinking it up until he went to bed. And I said, “Did you ever think to maybe not drink diet coke after lunch, and see if it helped?” And it really helped him a lot. He doesn’t have insomnia anymore, but yeah; the ding-ding-ding. And then I said; “Well you can’t drink diet coke on Whole30.” And he said, “I can do anything for 30 days.” And you know what; he doesn’t drink diet coke today. He doesn’t. And it’s just not a part of; it’s not a treat for him, it’s not anything for him. And he actually used to have; not a tic, but he would stop on words sometimes. He would hiccup through words, and that went down like 99%.

But he’s just cheered me on through the whole thing. Every time I need to make a change for my health, he is right there willing to do it with me. He never says, “Make me something else to eat.” You know, he’s not that kind of husband that wants his pizza and beer, at least once a week. He’s never somebody who says, “I can’t.” I know, my dad used to do this when I was growing up. He would come home from work, and he would say, “What’s for dinner?” And my mom would say, “Spaghetti.” And he would say, “I had Italian for lunch.” You know?

Mickey Trescott: My dad did the same thing. “I had that for lunch.”

Susan: Yeah. He’ll eat whatever is in the house, and he’s always been there, driving me to doctor’s appointments. Letting me spend money on autoimmune disease; and natural medicine and functional medicine is not cheap. And he’s never complained; said, no, you can’t go to that doctor, no you can’t have that test. And he’s held my hand when I wanted to give up. You know, Christmas this year; December was hard. My fatigue was really bad, and I just sometimes feel like giving up. And he’s like, “No you can’t, what does that mean, giving up?” You know?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it’s really; it’s been really sweet to watch you two, and I think that he has supported you a lot because he sees the change in you and he sees how much happier it is to be married to someone I think is feeling their best, you know, and kind of following their path and their dreams and discovering things together. You both have a lot of joy in kind of learning new things, and that tweaking; and that attitude isn’t everyone’s, but I’ve definitely noticed it in you guys, and I think it’s really great.

Susan: Yeah.

7. Tips for the beginning of your autoimmune journey [40:21]

Mickey Trescott: So, just to wrap up, do you have any tips or takeaways for anyone who is just kind of at the beginning of their autoimmune journey?

Susan: I say get a good functional medicine provider. And I know in your book you go over all the steps to find and to work. And you do need a really good doctor; and you need to listen to what that medical doctor says, but you also need to realize what frame of mind they’re working in. My first doctor, “here, just take this medicine for the rest of your life.” You’re going to get those medical doctors; and if you do get that kind of doctor, you need to find another doctor. Because, except for things like thyroid where you need to take medicine, and insulin when people need insulin; there’s not a lot of diseases where you just take medicine for the rest of your life and that’s the only thing you do.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Susan: It just doesn’t work that way. And the other thing is; try to stay away from Dr. Google. Really try to stay away. I’ve got the whole methylation stuff, and the whole gene variance, and falling down that rabbit hole of thinking I’m going to find some magic answer somewhere.

Mickey Trescott: Would you say, Susan; this has been my experience as kind of an ex-Dr. Google addict. I find that the solutions to my problems are actually quite simple and mostly kind of in plain sight, and a lot of them haven’t come as a result of following some rabbit trail online.

Susan: Exactly. It all boils down to sleep, real food, finding out what foods work for you and what don’t; and in reality, coming up with the broadest diet possible, because for me especially with the history of binge eating; the feeling of restriction is not good for my brain. So I need to feel; when I can eat white rice and white potatoes, I need to eat those things. Not every day; never every day. I don’t eat anything every day except drink water. Oh, coffee I do drink every day; which is on my list. But yeah, finding that broadest diet possible, and finding out what foods hurt you. Just eat foods that don’t hurt you.

Mickey Trescott: And then what quantities, I think you telling your story a little bit about how those reintroductions have gone for you, and how you’ve noticed this threshold; that’s something that’s a really common theme for people. They like to think of everything in terms of black and white, and I think the more we get into this we realize that’s kind of not how it is, you know?

Susan: Yeah. And you know, for me, keeping my house pretty much; except for eggs, white potatoes, and rice; keeping my house pretty much nightshade free. I don’t eat nightshades at home; I save that for the occasional time we go out. I ate fresh tomatoes for the first time after 2 years this summer, and I just eat a couple at a time. I don’t eat; my husband gets a little thing from the farmer’s market, and I probably put 3 cherry tomatoes on my salad, or three bites of a chopped-up tomato. And I savor it. And you know what, people say, “I’d die if I couldn’t eat tomatoes!” Well, I didn’t eat tomatoes for 2 years, and I’m still standing. Because I felt like I’d die without tomatoes, but you start to appreciate things more.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm.

Susan: When you don’t eat them every day, and it just works. But yeah, get the food dialed in, step out of that rabbit hole. Like I said, there isn’t some magic formula out there. They may be able to do it; but take all your genes, and lab work, and come up for the magic pill for you. It just isn’t out there, I don’t think.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, people have got to find it for themselves.

Susan: Yeah.

Mickey Trescott: Well thank you so much, Susan. This was an awesome interview. I think people are really going to enjoy hearing about your experiences and hearing you tell your story. If people want to keep up with you, do you want to tell them a little bit about how they can get in touch with you, where they can find you?

Susan: Sure. I have a website; it’s www.EvolveNutrition.com, and also on Facebook. I have been kind of in a life transition right now, where we’re going to the simplify route. So I’m working an accounting job right now because we’re about to sell our house and move. So I haven’t really been keeping up with that, but you can still contact me through that.

Mickey Trescott: You have such great; she has really great articles, especially for anyone that struggles with sugar addiction or drug and alcohol addiction. She has a great podcast series, Evolved Recovery Podcast; is that what it’s called?

Susan: Yeah, the Evolved Recovery. And I have also a website called. www.EvolvedRecovery.com. And a podcast. But you can all get there through Evolved Nutrition; the links are all there.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it’s a great resource. Awesome. Well thank you guys so much for listening. We’ll be back next time with a question and answer episode, so I’ll have my buddy Angie back. And we will be answering your questions. You guys take care; see you next time. Bye guys.

Susan: Thanks; bye-bye.

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Season 2 Episode 1 Q + A #1 is the first installment of our new Q + A format. In these episodes, we’re answering questions you submitted to us via social media! This season, the podcast will alternate between Q + A episodes like this and interview episodes featuring the voices of real AIPers just like you.

We cover a lot of ground in this first Q + A episode! Topics discussed include thyroid hormone replacement, AIP dogma, our personal reintroduction journeys, balance over perfection, adrenal support, and diet modifications for neurological disorders. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Thyroid hormone replacement [6:29]
2. Dogmatic AIP; elimination and reintroduction [11:54]
3. Weaning off thyroid hormone replacement [17:21]
4. Mickey and Angie’s personal reintroduction journey [21:37]
5. Iodine supplementation for thyroid [28:13]
6. Balance over perfection [29:32]
7. Non-AIP fillers in medications [33.10]
8. Adrenal support [35:23]
9. AIP and autoimmune neurological disorders [43:11]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everybody! Mickey here, and welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, season two. We had some really awesome feedback from you guys; it was really overwhelming on our blog posts, our Instagram accounts, and also the reviews in iTunes. So thank you guys so much for sharing. And we decided to bring things back for another round, since you guys told us that it was so helpful. So we’ve got a little bit of a program ready for you. Angie; should we tell everyone what we’ve been up to since the last season of our podcast ended?

Angie Alt: Yeah, sure. We’re trying not to get too chatty on you guys for this podcast. We’ve had a pretty fun few months, and we wanted to update you. The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook came out in November; woot, woot! And we had a great time on our 5-city book tour. We’re so grateful for everyone’s support; it was a great experience getting to meet so many of you, and hearing your stories, and watching your local communities kind of take shape and seeing you meet each other and sharing stories together at those book signings. Mickey, what was your favorite part of the tour?

Mickey Trescott: I loved the events with the food. So of course, I liked all the events; but enjoying AIP food with an AIP community is such a rare thing, that it was just really fun, those bookend events. So our first event was at Mission Heirloom and they just made this delicious meal for us, which is so fun to hang out with a bunch of other AIP people. I actually think that those two events; so then we did Hu Kitchen in New York City; both of them had almost 100 people, which I’ve never had the experience to hang out with 100 of my friends that eat like me, so that was really powerful.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: And really fun. What about you, Angie?

Angie Alt: Yeah. A big, big thank you to Mission Heirloom and Hu Kitchen; that was amazing. We really appreciated that support for our peeps. I don’t know what my favorite part was. I think getting to hear everybody’s stories, and see the way our work is impacting real live people out there; that’s really exciting. Getting stranded on train tracks was pretty fun; do you remember that, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, we almost didn’t make it to D. C., but we made it happen.

Angie Alt: Yeah. Let’s see; what else have we been up to since the book tour?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so you know, the first thing we did was take a chill period. You know, we spent some time resting and relaxing, taking care of ourselves; because we spent the better part of two years writing that book, and it was a big labor of love, but I think we needed to have a little season of kind of coming down off of that epic workload situation.

Angie Alt: Right. But, we did put in a little bit of work. One of our big projects that we worked on for the beginning of 2017 was relaunching our website under the brand Autoimmune Wellness. Hopefully, you guys are seeing that out there. We just think that the name really suits our mission, and will help us take our message to a more mainstream audience; viva la revolution, people.

Mickey Trescott: Woot, woot!

Angie Alt: We’re really focused on eventually making AIP this mainstream option for folks with autoimmune disease, and we feel like Autoimmune Wellness will help us get there. Let’s see; what else have we been up to, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: So, we have recently been working on a special project that those of you that are health coaches; so nutritional therapy practitioners, or other kind of practitioners in the natural health scene, will be really interested in. so make sure that you guys are on our email list to be the first to hear about it. You can sign up at our website; www.autoimmunewellness.com, or the old website, www.autoimmune-paleo.com, will redirect there, and you can opt in and you’ll be the first to hear about it. And I’m sorry we can’t share any more details, but it’s going to be really fun.

Angie Alt: Super secret squirrel.

Mickey Trescott: Secret squirrel; that’s one of Angie’s favorite phrases. So back to the podcast; we want to tell you guys a little bit about what to expect this season, because our format is going to be a little different this time around.

Angie Alt: Yeah, so this season we’re going to be alternating between Q&A episodes, where Mickey and I are just going to take as many of your questions as we can and answer them for you guys. and then we’re going to be doing interview with real people who are going to share their journeys to autoimmune wellness, and what it’s actually been like for them. Just regular people out in the community who are using this method of working toward healing.

Today is our first Q&A episode, and we asked you guys to submit your questions; I think we took these mostly on Instagram, right Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yep.

Angie Alt: And boy; you guys gave us a lot of questions.

Mickey Trescott: A lot of questions. {laughs}

1. Thyroid hormone replacement [6:29]

Angie Alt: We’re going to do our very best to get through as many as we can, so let’s get started. Let’s see; so we have some thyroid questions. Mickey, let me ask you this first one. It looks like Hannah asked, “At what point should you ask to start taking thyroid hormone; especially if you feel good about 25% of the time and your labs are within normal range, and you’ve followed the protocol for a while. And once you start taking it, do you have to continue for a while? “

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so this is a really good question for anyone with thyroid issues or Hashimoto’s, listen up. The autoimmune protocol does a really great job for most people taking out that inflammatory process, and taking out all those foods that are irritating to the gut. It does not reverse the damage that has been done to your thyroid, and it is not a replacement for thyroid hormone therapy if you need it.

So, a lot of us; if you have thyroid disease, it’s possible that you have Hashimoto’s, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease. And Hashimoto’s is actually the cause of 80% of hypothyroidism. So if you’ve been diagnosed at any time in the past with hypothyroidism, and you haven’t really been told about the cause, but you’ve been told to take thyroid hormone, it’s very likely that you have Hashimoto’s. and you haven’t ever had your antibodies tested, it’s a good idea to get those checked.

So what happens in Hashimoto’s is your immune system starts to destroy your thyroid slowly, over time. For a lot of people, it can take decades before they even start to get symptoms. But by the time people get diagnosed, and they notice the symptoms, and they get their labs done and their thyroid is suboptimal, they usually get on thyroid medication. And this medication is to replace the thyroid hormone that their thyroid would normally be making. So a part of the casualty of Hashimoto’s; there are some other reasons for thyroid dysfunction, but a lot of the time, it just means that your thyroid is not making enough hormone. And that thyroid hormone is needed by every cell in your body. So it’s really important if you need it to get a prescription and take it.

So, I would encourage anyone who is on the autoimmune protocol, who knows that they have Hashimoto’s disease or thyroid dysfunction, if they’ve tried the elimination diet for a little while; like it sounds like Hannah, she’s been on the protocol for a while, and she is only feeling well 25% of the time. The catch here is she says her labs are within the normal range. Now, a lot of people are told their labs are within the normal range, when they aren’t.

so this is probably a situation where Hannah, you should find a more open minded doctor that is willing to do thorough testing. So for thyroid disease, you really want to be testing free hormone levels; so free T3, free T4, in addition to the usually ordered TSH, sometimes reverse T3 can be helpful; and then again those antibodies to kind of tell how the autoimmune process is going. And then, you want to find a doctor who doesn’t believe in the conventional ranges, but who treats based on a little bit more of a narrow, functional range. And this can be hard to find; it doesn’t have to be a functional medicine doctor. It can be a savvy regular medical doctor; it could be a naturopath.

But I’ll tell you; I went to 6 doctors who told me my levels were normal before I found the one who said; “You know what, they’re not.” And that thyroid hormone replacement, that medication, was the difference between me feeling 60-70% better and 90-95% better. So it can make a really big effect, even if you’re doing the diet and everything.

So, I don’t think that people should be denying themselves thyroid medication. Like I said, it is something that every cell in your body needs, and if you need that and you need to eat a certain way to feel well; that’s what I do personally, there is no harm in that. And you should continue as long as your doctor, and your labs, and your symptoms indicate that you should. So, I know that’s kind of a long answer, but the thyroid stuff can get kind of complicated. And a lot of times, it’s not either/or; a lot times, that’s just another tool that we have in our tool box to live well with thyroid conditions.

Angie Alt: Yeah, right. We’re fans of the both/and, right?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, totally. I mean, if you know that there is something you can do that’s going to help you feel better, why would you not use it? A lot of medications have side effects, but thyroid medication is actually a lot of times bioidentical to what your body would actually be producing. And so it doesn’t have the same mechanism. Most medications work by inhibiting something, or stopping something. But thyroid medication, it’s almost like a nutrient in that way. Your body needs a certain amount, and if you’re not getting enough, you’re just going to have symptoms. So I’m very pro- working that out.

And you know, some people might not need thyroid medication. But if you think you might need it, it’s really worthy of investigation. So, let’s move on to a question for you, Angie.

Angie Alt: Sure.

2. Dogmatic AIP; elimination and reintroduction [11:54]

Mickey Trescott: So we have a question from Jay, and it’s about balance, which is one of your awesome expertise. “I’d love to hear the benefits and problems with staying on AIP with no reintroductions. I’m hoping AIP is a bridge to healing, and that I can add back a lot of the foods I’ve eliminated. Eggs, nightshades, and occasional grains. But the AIP community at large seems so dogmatic about this being a lifestyle, and a forever thing. What’s the point of forever elimination?”

Angie Alt: Oh boy.

Mickey Trescott: Who are you talking about, Jay? {laughs} Hopefully not us.

Angie Alt: Jay, you need to give us their name and number, and we’re going to go tell them what we think about that. No, I’m just kidding. I’m really sorry that you’ve encountered this feeling in the AIP community that it’s dogmatic, and that we believe that you should be in the elimination phase forever. That’s definitely not what we’re hoping to promote in the community, and it’s definitely not how the protocol is laid out. So the protocol is an elimination AND reintroduction protocol; so that’s really important to understand that part of the healing process is reintroducing foods.

I think it could be maybe a little bit of a misunderstanding of the idea “lifestyle”, of making AIP a lifestyle. By that, it’s more talking about healing in general, and incorporating more than just diet into your autoimmune wellness journey. So hopefully it’s just a misunderstanding and you’re not, hopefully, running into too many people that are being super dogmatic about staying in elimination forever.

So, you know you wanted to hear about the benefits and problems of staying in AIP with no reintroductions. I honestly don’t think that there are benefits to staying on the elimination phase of AIP forever. I think, actually, you’re really limiting diversity in your diet, and it’s also psychologically really hard. Not to mention, in our modern world, it’s not the most convenient thing to have to be in that kind of restricted zone that long.

Generally, you’re looking to stay on the protocol; the elimination part of the protocol, for at least 30 days. That’s enough time to kind of clean your slate, and make it so that you can understand foods that are a problem for you as you begin to reintroduce, versus foods that really work for your body. Ideally, it would probably be better if you shot for more like 60 to 90 days. Most folks need a little more time than 30 days, so it’s not unusual to stay in that zone for another month to two months past the 30-day process.

If you get to 90 days, and you’re not having the kind of progress you would have expected with AIP, it’s a good time to get some people on your team who you can collaborate with. Doctors or other kinds of practitioners that can help you dig a little bit deeper, and see if there are some root issues that are kind of preventing progress with the protocol. You know, for instance, a really common example in the autoimmune community would be maybe having small intestine bacterial overgrowth, or something called SIBO. A lot of folks are dealing with an underlier there, and it can’t be corrected with diet alone, and it needs to be treated through either conventional or herbal antibiotics with a practitioner.

So there can be issues underlying like that that need to be uncovered. In that case, maybe you would stay on the elimination a little bit longer; so you kind of keep the process clean. You limit variables, and you kind of figure out what that root is. And then once you deal with those, you move on to reintroductions. Definitely; we don’t believe you should stay in elimination forever. The benefits of reintroducing foods is a lot of nutrient density, variety, it emotionally feels better to have a little wider diet, and it’s easier. It’s more convenient in our world.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it really changes things when you can start to eat out, and you can start to experiment more with those gray-area foods. I think being too restricted usually comes from a place of fear for a lot of people, and we don’t want to have that relationship with our food. We want to think of our food as something that’s very powerful and lifegiving. I mean, we have this opportunity three or more times a day to actually decide how our body is going to interact with all of these chemicals and nutrients, and it’s a very powerful thing. But I don’t think it’s something we should be afraid of. We should see it as an opportunity.

And you know, the fear with reintroduction is a big thing with a lot of people, and they like to kind of make other people suffer by promoting that idea that they also need to be afraid and be on it forever; but it’s not like that. And Angie and I, hopefully, in what we’ve written in our books, and on the blog, and in the podcast, we’re trying to put this to rest that the reintroduction is 50% of the whole protocol. That’s why it’s called a protocol, and not a diet. A diet is something that people adopt for long-term, and a protocol is a process that you go through with an end result.

Angie Alt: Right. You know, Jay, I think the thing I say to my clients pretty often; probably I say this at least once a day. The point of this whole process is to help heal our bodies, not develop burdened hearts and minds.

Mickey Trescott: Well said.

3. Weaning off thyroid hormone replacement [17:21]

Angie Alt: Alright. Let’s see; so we’ve got some more thyroid questions Mickey, are you ready?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Angie Alt: Ok. So Julia wrote in and said, “A Hashimoto’s question. My doctor put me on medication, levothyroxine, a year ago when I got diagnosed, and I’ve since increased. I obviously wouldn’t stop taking it without doctor’s orders, but I was wondering if it is possible to get off of the thyroid hormone supplement after being on it. I’ve heard of people with stories of healing their bodies naturally without ever going on medication, but was wondering of the possibility of coming off of it after taking it for an extended period of time.”

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so this is a good question Julia, and you know, you’re right to know not to change anything up without your doctor. It sounds like you have a pretty reasonable expectation about what to expect; you’re knowing that maybe you will be able to go off it, maybe not. And honestly, no one will really be able to know until you try changing your diet and managing your lifestyle better. I have personally not been able to go off my thyroid medication, but I have changed my dose a lot.

So when I was first diagnosed, I was put on a certain blend of T4 and T3, and I stayed consistent on that for almost 2 years, and then I started reacting to the T3. And my suspicion is that the conversion of T4 to T3 is very dependent on a few nutrients; mostly zinc and selenium. The autoimmune protocol is actually really plentiful in these nutrients, and I think I had just started getting too much T3, because my body started converted sufficiently, something that a lot of people have, very poor conversion. So I started reacting to the T3, so my doctor took out that part of my prescription, and I’ve been on the same dose ever since.

I’ve remained pretty stable on my thyroid hormone, and I would say that the clients that I’ve worked with with Hashimoto’s tend to remain pretty stable, or decrease their medication. A lot of them aren’t every single year, you know, steadily going up and up and up. But that’s not to say that that’s you, that’s a failure. I would just be open to kind of whatever situation happens, because a lot of things can change over your life that would impact your need for thyroid medication. Certain factors might be kind of how that autoimmunity is progressing. I mean, a lot of people go to the point where they get that inflammation down so far that maybe they’re just kind of holding steady at whatever their thyroid is outputting.

And intuitively, not medically speaking because I’m not a medical practitioner, but intuitively I feel like that’s what’s going on in my body. But I’m not holding out hope that I can just one day ditch that thyroid medication so that I can feel good about myself. I, like I said before, I accept it as a part of my healing journey, and I’m grateful to have the opportunity to take that thyroid medication, and you know; I’m open to whatever happens in the future. Maybe if I go through a period of extreme stress, you know put some stress on the adrenals, that might be a situation where I might need some more thyroid hormone. Or you know, maybe I will start reacting to the amount of T4 I’m taking and I’ll need less. But I have no way of really knowing, and I guess I can just tell you as a practitioner, that I’ve kind of seen a lot of different things happen with people, and I have seen people try the autoimmune protocol and actually completely go off their medication. But I wouldn’t say that’s typical, so I would just be open minded and accept it as part of your healing process.

You know, for anyone with Hashimoto’s or thyroid disease; having a good doctor and being monitored regularly, and being willing to be open and change, depending on your symptoms and the seasons and whatever your going on in your life; that’s the best way to navigate it.

Angie Alt: Great answer, Mickey.

Mickey Trescott: Cool. Well, we’ve got another balance question for you.

Angie Alt: Sure; let’s hear it.

4. Mickey and Angie’s personal reintroduction journey [21:37]

Mickey Trescott: So Julie says, “Are you ladies AIP compliant all the time? Or have you reintroduced foods? If so, which ones have you been successful at reintroducing, and what are your recommendations? I’ve got Hashi’s.”

Angie Alt: Ok, so were we compliant with AIP while we were in the elimination phase? Sure we were. We were both pretty dedicated to the process, because we wanted to see if it could help us with our healing, and sure enough it did, which was very motivational to keep going. Now, we are still compliant with AIP; we are in the reintroduction phase. We’re well into the reintroduction phase; I would say actually Mickey and I are kind of post-reintroduction, actually. And we’ve sort of fine-tuned our diets, and found out what bioindividually works for each of us.

The foods that I’ve reintroduced are kind of across the board. Some examples are white rice, white potato; I can do quite a bit and variety of dairy. Let’s see; eggs are definitely in, I can do most of the nuts and seeds, I can do a little alcohol. There’s not really any super big standouts other than obviously I didn’t go with the grains beyond white rice, and I don’t do most of the legumes, and the nightshades other than white potato have not been my friend. How about you Mickey; can you tell her about your reintroductions?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah. So the first foods I successfully reintroduced were egg yolks, seed spices; then whole nuts and seeds, the oils from them. That was, you know, probably the initial. It took me about a year and a half; so a little bit longer on the autoimmune protocol with those reintroductions before I started tolerating the egg whites. And then I started tolerating white rice and potatoes pretty shortly after. Small amounts of alcohol. I’ve never been able to tolerate even the most clarified ghee; I’m very allergic to dairy, still. So that’s never changed for me.

But the nightshades, at about 3 years in, I started experimenting with paprika and cayenne pepper in small quantities of the spices; and now I’m to the point where I can even have some raw peppers, but I cannot have tomatoes. So Angie and I are pretty different about what we can tolerate, but we’ve both been in this phase probably 3 or 4 years now. And I think post-reintroduction is a little bit more kind of knowing where your boundaries are and knowing quantities, and situations, and combinations. We’ve “reintroduced” so many times, because every time we’re at a conference, or we’re at a restaurant, and we’re like, “Hmm, should I have conventional eggs and potatoes in the same meal?” {laughs} You know, there has just been a lot of opportunity to kind of mix and match and kind of figure out. Since we already know the basics about those triggers, you know, we eat a pretty varied gluten free diet. Sometimes, for me, it’s not even paleo, and I’m still feeling great and I know my boundaries, you know?

Angie Alt: Right. I think once you kind of get into reintroduction, and especially kind of, I guess you would call it post-reintroduction; AIP becomes more about the ebb and flow. We write about this a lot in our new book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook, that you kind of start to realize when there will be points in your life where it’s better if you’re kind of tightening down things, and really careful and maybe even basically elimination phase style eating, just best support your health; and then you’re more aware of the times when you’re health is just in a really great place, and you’re stress is low, and it’s a time when you can open up and enjoy all those reintroduced foods fully and not really worry that it will impact your health too much. I think it’s the whole process of learning to hear your body talk, and have that communication going. Which, that’s the whole thing that happens, while you go through reintroductions.

You know; Julie did kind of mention that she has Hashimoto’s, and that’s one thing that we could probably touch on a little bit about reintroductions. For some folks, depending on their diseases and their disease presentations, sometimes the reintroduction process can be a little harder to gauge, and I think Hashi’s folks are among those people; because I think reactions can be a little slower. What do you have to say about that, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so what I recommend for people with Hashi’s is to get really into journaling, and really try to find as many concrete signs as you can. So, for instance, journaling and saying “My energy today was good,” is probably not going to help you over the long term. But saying, “My energy was 7,” or, “My energy was 6.” You can notice a trend over months when you use numbers.

You can also try things like taking your temperature first thing in the morning before you get out of bed. That’s a great indicator of thyroid function. It will go up and down a little bit as your cycle fluctuates, but for the most part, if you start tracking that over a period of months, you’ll start to see a warming trend when you are feeling a little bit better, having more energy.

Other things are like your bowel movements; so using Bristol stool chart, tracking your bowel movements. Noticing things like your mood. You can also say, how was my anxiety today, or was I feeling happy? You can notice your skin. That’s a big thing for thyroid people. Noticing your shedding. And again, you can rate it on a 1-10 scale to give yourself really a good scale of tracking that for the long-term, and kind of making those; connecting those dots. Because with Hashi’s, we have what are called nonspecific symptoms. So they’re things that, this is a reason why a lot of doctors don’t take us very seriously because we go in and we say; “oh, well I’m tired and I’m constipated, but not really constipated, and my skin is dull, and my hair is falling out.” And they’re kind of like; “well, that doesn’t really give me much to work with.” You know?

Angie Alt: Right. So, that can, yeah, kind of make it a little bit tough with the reintroduction process. But I think you had some good tips there.

Mickey Trescott: Cool.

5. Iodine supplementation for Hashimoto’s [28:13]

Angie Alt: Ok. Another Hashi’s question. Ashely asks; “Hashimoto’s question. My functional doctor has me taking iodine supplementation. In your opinion, is iodine supplementation a good or bad thing for someone with Hashimoto’s and adrenal fatigue?”

Mickey Trescott: In my opinion, it is a bad thing. So iodine, a lot of people think that taking iodine is good. There are a lot of practitioners out there that really believe in putting their Hashimoto’s patients on iodine. It’s kind of like pouring gasoline onto a fire. So it can really cause a bad flare. I personally have done this to myself. I did the iodine protocol; I read about how iodine can really screw with you when you have Hashimoto’s, then I read a lot of stories of people that were really raving about it and I tried it. I had a massive, massive flare. It took me 3 months to recover from it. And this is consistent with a lot of the research that I have read from really tried and true Hashi’s resources that iodine is really not a good idea.

I would just say that maybe in small doses, with a practitioner who is very knowledgeable and very willing to monitor you. But yeah; I would say no go on the iodine.

Angie Alt: Yeah, it is a little tricky; iodine.

6. Balance over perfection [29:32]

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. So, Christine wants to know, Angie; “What does balance look like practically? How do you strive for balance over perfection? You can follow the right diet, take supplements, and change your lifestyle, but how does that all fit with seeking emotional and mental health, as well?”

Angie Alt: So, you know. What does this look like practically? This is a little bit tough, because it looks a little different for everyone. Everybody’s balance is going to be a little different. But I think the main thing is kind of what we were talking about with the earlier balance question about whether or not AIP is dogmatic, and that you should stay in elimination phase forever. It’s this whole idea that we’re seeking healing with this process; we’re not trying to burden our hearts and our minds. If you find that following this process is leading you down a path where you’re unable to think about anything else, or you’re kind of just emotionally weighted down by it day in and day out, I’d say that it’s time to get some people on your team who can help you make it a more balanced process, or consider coming back to AIP at a time when you’re more able to tackle it.

There’s probably a couple of people out there listening and going, “Oh my gosh, what’s going on? The AIP queens are telling us to maybe think about AIP at a later time, what’s going on?” {laughs} What I’m saying is, if it’s making you that imbalanced, and you’re struggling with it in that way, you’re not going to get the benefits of the process and the protocol. It would be better to return to it at a time when you’re more able to tackle it. That said, don’t just let any tiny challenge along the way kind of prevent you from really pursuing healing with this. If that’s the case; if it’s feeling a little overwhelming. If it’s feeling like a bigger challenge than you thought it would be, but you want to pursue it and you want to do it in a balanced and happy way; get support. You know? Find people to be your cheerleaders; maybe consider getting a coach to help you go through the process. You could join a group program, like my SAD to AIP in 6. Whatever will give you the support you need.

Tap into this big community that we have and find places where you can vent; and say, “Guys, this is so hard to do, and I’m really struggling with trying to do it perfectly!” And then this whole community, and there are thousands of us, can say, “Don’t worry about perfection! Just keep going!” we can help give you messages that can make it a little bit easier. I think supporting your mental and emotional health through the process is just as important, you know. Stress is not going to help you get any further down the healing road, no matter how perfect your diet and supplementation is. What do you think about that, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: I think that was a great answer. I mean, perfection has no role in this. It’s not about being perfect. I’ve noticed that’s kind of going back to the dogma question; some people use AIP as more perfect paleo, and it kind of satisfies a little bit of a disordered sensibility in them, and you know, like Angie said; if that’s kind of the road you’re going down; get help, get community, get support. But it’s really not about being perfect, it’s about living life. And we’re not perfect, you know?

Angie Alt: Yep, exactly. We’re human beings, not robots. Not AIP robots. {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: Nope.

7. Non-AIP fillers in medications [33.10]

Angie Alt: Alright, let’s see. We’ve got another thyroid question. This is our last thyroid question. The lady asks; “My thyroid medication, levothyroxine, contains lactose and corn starch. How important is full AIP compliance in a situation like this? How big an impact will it make on my chances of healing and remission?” What do you say, Mickey?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so corn and dairy are pretty high up there in the potential triggers. That being said, it’s a pretty small amount in thyroid medication, and thyroid medication is usually necessary for people feeling their best. So what I would suggest, if this woman was my client and I had taken history and everything; I would probably say, you know, try AIP for 30 days and see how you feel. If you don’t feel any different after 30 days, then I would ask you to go back to your doctor, talk to them about the elimination diet you’re trying, seeing if they would be open to doing a trial of like a compounded medication where they put the levothyroxine in a filler that is a little bit more benign. Sometimes you can find a pharmacy that will put it in ginger powder; I have mine in microcrystalline cellulose, which some people are sensitive to if they have serious gut issues. But from an autoimmune standpoint it’s usually fine for most people. So that’s another option.

So yes, if you are sensitive to the lactose and the corn starch, that could be an issue for you. But I would probably give it 30 days before going through all that effort of going to your doctor and getting a new prescription and everything; because that is a really big change for your body. The way that your body actually digests and uses that thyroid medication, it changes with what it’s filled with. So it could be that that medication is actually working really well for you, and I’d hate to see you change it if that’s the case. So that’s what I would say.

Angie Alt: Great. What do you think, Mickey, should we move on to a few more questions?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I think we have two more we have time to hit.

Angie Alt: Great.

8. Adrenal support [35:23]

Mickey Trescott: So Kate says; what are some of the best way to support the adrenals through diet and supplements, for someone with adrenal insufficiency that also has an underactive thyroid.

Angie Alt: Ok, so; Kate, this is all kind of interconnected. We sort of have a little bit of a triangle, for lack of a better term, that’s happening with our adrenals and our thyroid, and also another important part of our body; our blood sugar regulation.

So, the very first thing that somebody who is trying to support adrenal health would do is work on blood sugar regulation. You can think of this as, every time your blood sugar gets too low, your adrenal glands have to basically come to the rescue. They have to pump up a bunch of cortisol into your system to help your body release enough glucose to basically solve this low blood sugar crisis that you’re having. So you want to end that rollercoaster ride, where the adrenals have to hop in there and do that for.

Some ways to do that in the beginning are to eat within a half hour of getting out of bed; probably think about having six times a day that you’re eating; so every 3 hours eating something. So your three main meals, and then maybe some small snacks in between. Eventually you won’t have to do this as your blood sugar gets regulated, but these are some steps in the beginning. Make sure that those meals and snacks include a little bit of protein and fat, because that protein and fat is like a log on your internal fire, and it burns nice and steady and keeps your blood sugar really even, so it doesn’t have one of those dips where the adrenals have to work so hard and come to your rescue.

Another smart thing to do here is to avoid, obviously, lots of sugar. Because every time the blood sugar goes way, way up, what goes up must come down, and then you’ll have that crash and the adrenals will have to come to the rescue. That includes sugar from fruits, so you’ll want to keep your fruit consumption kind of limited. Maybe one to two pieces a day; preferably not dried fruits or the tropical fruits, which tend to be really high in sugar. You might want to think about things like berries and other kind of low-sugar fruits.

Those are kind of the big ideas about how to keep blood sugar regulated. You would want to kind of start there rather than start with supplementation. The other side of this equation is getting enough rest. There’s kind of this idea that certain people suffer from adrenal fatigue; but the reality is, pretty much all of us suffer from adrenal fatigue, and it’s because of the lifestyles that we lead in our modern lives. You know, we’re running around all the time, we don’t get enough sleep. We’re plugged into our devices all the time and not really ever resting our brains. Sometimes the things we’re seeing on our devices or on the TVs or hearing on the radio are very stressful things. We’re commuting; commutes are very stressful. We have really plugged in work lives that often don’t allow any downtime, you know? So the other side of this coin to help achieve some better balance with the adrenals is to really work on rest and relaxation; do things to manage our stress actively, so that those adrenals don’t have to fire so often. Mickey, how would you explain kind of the adrenal insufficiency running into the thyroid issue?

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, so the adrenals and the thyroid, this is really, really common for people with thyroid issues to even have more complicated adrenal issues, because they’re both the systems of the body that are responsible for energy production. And when one of them isn’t doing well, the other one kind of has to pick up the slack, and a lot of times when the thyroid starts to have dysfunction early on, the adrenals just pick up the slack and you don’t really know that that’s different. But over time, your adrenals burn out, and that’s usually when people get the first signs of thyroid disease. They get a diagnosis of thyroid issues, and then they kind of start there, but they don’t really realize that they kind of need to work on both systems and bring them both back to health before they’re going to really feel that complete return of their energy.

So, like we’ve been talking a lot about medication this episode, making sure that you are being properly treated for your underactive thyroid so your adrenals don’t have to do so much work. That is a really important part of the process.

Another thing that I would mention that can be kind of tricky with managing that blood sugar, is to make sure that you’re not going completely low carb of ketogenic.

Angie Alt: Ah, that’s a good one!

Mickey Trescott: It can be a really tricky line, because if you’re eating too many carbs and too much sugar, that’s going to make those peaks and valleys and make your blood sugar go up and down; but if you’re eating just enough complex carbohydrates to keep your insulin at a normal level, that’s going to keep your thyroid hormone conversion where it should be. So for a lot of people, they can get really sluggish, and their thyroid can put a lot of that work on the adrenals if they’re not eating enough carbs.

So a lot of people will say; “tell me exactly how much I need to eat?” This level is pretty individual. {laughs} So for some people, half a sweet potato, maybe one sweet potato a day does it; some people need a little bit more. So you might have to kind of play with that level and see where you’re at, track your food for a little while and kind of see what produces the most energy for you and also doesn’t really have you run into the blood sugar issues.

The other thing I want to say too is; a lot of people that reverse these adrenal issues, they don’t do it with supplements, right? There are a lot of products out on the market, and I want to send a warning for anyone with autoimmune disease. A lot of herbs, in particular that are helpful for the adrenals, are actually powerful immune stimulants, which can be really problematic for people with autoimmune disease. So for a lot of people, these supplements; especially things like ashwagandha; it’s a nightshade. So this is one of these herbs that a lot of these formulas use. It’s very hard to find a supplement that actually follows the autoimmune protocol, it doesn’t have any immune stimulating herbs, and honestly a lot of people that are recovering, are doing it through the diet and lifestyle changes. Supplement is sometimes a little bit helpful with some nutrients, but really if you’re not changing your lifestyle, it’s not going to be a sustainable change.

Angie Alt: Right.

Mickey Trescott: So that’s what I would say there.

Angie Alt: Womp, womp; we didn’t recommend a supplement. But no, seriously. Starting with your food, working on your diet and lifestyle; that’s the way to heal the adrenals.

Mickey Trescott: And I would say, too; people, I will mention rhodiola rosea is one herb that I have found that I’ve used with a few people, and I’ve used it personally that isn’t a nightshade. It is an adaptogen, meaning it kind of helps you find that even keel; and it’s not immune stimulating. So for what’s it worth, it might be one to look for blends with that herb in it. But like I said, I would probably save my money in the initial stages and work on some more self-care and stress management, and sleep before resorting to supplementation.

9. AIP and autoimmune neurological disorders [43:11]

Angie Alt: Right. Alright, one more question here. They say; it looks like her name might be Sylvia? She says, “My question is about specific recommendations for autoimmune neurological disorders. I was diagnosed with myasthenia gravis, and have been on immunosuppressants for almost one year. I feel better, although still on medication. I did the 8-week AIP elimination diet last October and November, and didn’t find major changes. I’m working on other key aspects of autoimmune wellness, such as sleep, rest, and exercise. Are there specific recommendations for neuromuscular conditions? Thanks.”

Mickey Trescott: Yes! So, what I would say with a disease like myasthenia gravis, or anyone else who is on an immunosuppressant medication; this is not to say that any other autoimmune diseases aren’t here yet, they are not severe. But a lot of these diseases have some pretty intense symptoms that could potentially be life threatening, and this is why the choice for using a very powerful immunosuppressant medication is warranted.

So for anyone in this situation, like what Sylvia is doing, trying to do some dietary changes in conjunction with conventional medication; always talking to your doctor about what you’re trying. This is always the best approach. You don’t need to feel like you need to go off your medication before you try AIP. Trying AIP with your doctor’s permission, while you’re on the medication, and having positive changes there is the way to go before you have the conversation with your doctor about potentially weaning. Some people might be able to wean, some people might not. That’s totally a discussion you have to have with your doctor. But I just wanted to say that note for anyone also there.

Some diseases are, depending on how long you’ve had this process going on in your body, for a long time it might be pretty severe, you know? Autoimmune neurological diseases. So things like multiple sclerosis; they take a little bit longer. Because you know, that myelin, that tissue in your brain; the nerve tissue, that is something that is actually very, very difficult for the body to heal. And it’s not to say that AIP doesn’t work; I mean, look at Terry Wahls. If you guys haven’t seen her TED Talk yet; which she has; what she has accomplished in the few years, even now when I’ve seen her in person, just year to year she just looks younger and younger and is more capable and more strong, and just incredible. It’s possible; but I want to say, too, that usually people dealing with these more complex and deeper seated conditions; time might be a variable for you.

So I would suggest making sure you have good help; so making sure have a functional medicine practitioner, making sure you have a doctor on your team who is open to advising you about the interaction between the diet, making sure that your medication is going to play nice with anything else that you’re trying on your own. So the other variable is time. So this is a case where I do think it’s necessary for some people to be on maybe a modified elimination diet for a longer period of time, just because of how difficult that nerve tissue is to heal. And so I would definitely try and work with someone; I wouldn’t try and do that on my own. Because like we’ve been talking about this whole episode; there is a lot of mental and emotional stuff you run up against when you try to do the elimination long term. So I wouldn’t do that without help.

The third thing is; you know, those key aspects that you’re talking about; that sleep, that rest, that exercise. That’s going to help you too, but also some nutrients might be really important to your healing process. So that’s where getting a practitioner involved. You know, like Terry Wahls, I know part of her protocol was taking large amounts of B vitamins, and some antioxidants like Glutathione and other things. So working with, like I said, a functional medicine practitioner who can help you maybe add in some of those nutrients and supplements that might actually help you get sufficient in that area a little faster.

And then I’ll end, too, by saying; for me personally, I never got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, but there was a point in my journey where they suspected it; my doctors suspected it. I did have a lot of inflammation in my brain, and Angie and I shared this; we both had really bad nerve damage in our fingers and our feet; we started slurring our speech. And for me, one of the things that did not resolve very early when I started the autoimmune protocol was any of those symptoms. So I actually had this nerve damage in my fingers and my feet where I couldn’t really feel my fingertips. And even; gosh, I want to say a year and a half into AIP, I still had that feeling. And I even went to my doctor, and I said, “Doc, everything else has changed. Literally, my body feels like a completely new body except I cannot feel my fingertips. Is this ever going to go away?” And they said, “Oh, that nerve tissue, it doesn’t heal. It probably can’t come back; it’s probably damaged.” And I was grateful for what I had achieved, and ok fine.

But I can tell you 5 years later, slowly that went away and I have feeling there now, and I don’t have that problem anymore. So that healing came very late, and I’m guessing that it came from just eating a nutrient dense diet for so long. So going back to that balance between, “How long do I stay on the elimination diet;” I don’t think you necessarily need to be on the elimination diet forever to achieve a change like that. But trying to figure out which diet is best supportive of your health while reintroducing some foods and kind of focusing on that nutrient density; those organ meats and bone broth and all of that nutrient sufficiency, I think in the long term is the thing that really is going to help turn around these deeper seated, long-term, potentially serious conditions. So hopefully that’s helpful.

Angie Alt: That was great. Lots of good tips in there. Alright; our time is kind of up for answering questions today. We definitely didn’t get to all of them, so we’ll be addressing them in our next podcast. We’re going to be doing lots of these Q&As this season; we hope you guys will tune in again. Have a great day everyone, and we will see you next week with a personal interview.

Mickey Trescott: Bye guys!

Wait–before you go!

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2!

Bonus Ep: Cooking For Life, Multiple Sclerosis, and a research update w/ Dr. Terry Wahls is our second bonus episode, and an introduction to Season 2 of the podcast. In this episode, we interview our personal inspiration, Dr. Terry Wahls, the creator of The Wahls Protocol and the author of the new book, The Wahls Protocol Cooking For Life.

In addition to discussing Dr. Wahls’ new book, topics we cover include how to embrace a healing diet on a budget, approaching your doctor about utilizing nutrition for health, why we believe in templates over recipes, Dr. Wahls’ go-to meal, and much more. This is a juicy and informative episode with one of the most inspirational voices in the chronic illness community. It’s perfect for folks looking for some practical advice on how to sustain a healing lifestyle. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Introducing our guest, Dr. Terry Wahls [2:20]
2. Utilizing a healing diet on a budget [6:56]
3. The importance of diet shift in the medical community [11:01]
4. Approaching your doctor about utilizing nutrition for health [16:32]
5. Dr. Wahls’ newest book [19:55]
6. Templates, not recipes [23:26]
7. Dr. Wahls’ go-to meal [27:15]
8. Success stories from the Lifestyle Clinic [31:42]
9. Response to the naysayers [34:08]
10. What’s coming up for Dr. Wahls [38:12]

Angie Alt: Hi everyone! Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. Angie here; today we are bringing you the second of our pre-season bonus interview episodes, so you guys are super lucky, these are going to be great. Mickey, how are you doing today?

Mickey Trescott: Super awesome, especially because I am so excited about chatting our guest today. She’s one of our favorite people in the autoimmune world. And we got feedback from you guys last season that you really value these expert interviews, and we didn’t really have any in the can for you guys for season 2; but then we decided we had this incredible opportunity to interview a couple of really awesome people; one of them today. And we got her on the line for you. So, Angie, do you want to tell our listeners about who this super special, amazing person is, who happens to be a total rockstar in our world?

1. Introducing our guest, Dr. Terry Wahls [2:20]

Angie Alt: Yeah, sure I would love to. Our guest today is the amazing Dr. Terry Wahls, a fellow autoimmune warrior, who went from secondary progressive multiple sclerosis that had left her in a wheelchair in 2003, to the vibrant, dancing; more on that in a minute; and world-changing lady we are honored to speak with today. Terry is the author of several books, including The Wahls Protocol, and her latest, The Wahls Protocol Cooking for Life. In addition to over 60 peer-reviewed abstracts, papers, and posters. She also runs a groundbreaking lifestyle clinic in Iowa, and conducts clinical research that is changing how we treat MS and other autoimmune diseases. Additionally, she is behind the Wahls Foundation, a nonprofit created in 2011 whose mission is to replace the epidemic of chronic disease with an epidemic of health; I love that. To say Terry is purpose driven is basically an understatement, you guys. Thanks so much for being on the show today, Terry!

Dr. Terry Wahls: Hey, thank you so much for having me.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome. So Terry, most of our readers are familiar with your story at this point, and your TED Talk. And if anyone listening goes; “Wait a minute; I haven’t heard about that.” You guys should definitely check it out. Just Google Terry Wahls TED Talk and start there; it’s awesome.

So we know; your healing has progressed considerably over time. When I actually met you at the Ancestral Health Symposium a few years ago, you showed the audience that you weren’t able to raise your arms over your head. And last month, Angie and I were hanging out with you at the NTA conference, and you were pulling some dance moves where your hands were definitely over your head.

Dr. Terry Wahls: {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: So, you know, your healing has increased a lot even since you’ve been on this journey. I am always shocked at how you look younger and more vibrant as time goes on. Can you give everyone a little bit of an update about those changes that you’ve noticed in your long-term healing; especially since you gave your TED Talk.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Sure. So, I’ll sort of give a quick high-level synopsis. I do this wonderful thing with biological age; and there are several online calculators that you can use, it’s pretty fun. I did mine based on what my answer would have been at 52, which was at my worst, and my biological age at that point was 69. Which is probably pretty accurate; I couldn’t sit up, I couldn’t do a pushup; I was struggling to walk 10 feet, I had all these markers. So, I have since calculated that biologic age using that marker, and I’m down to the age of 39.

Mickey Trescott: Wow!

Dr. Terry Wahls: And that’s pretty cool. When I was 39, I was developing my MS symptoms. I was still skiing, still jogging, still biking, but I certainly could not bike as far as I can now. So already I was beginning to have problems with the MS, that had not yet come to diagnosis. And if we line up photos of me, you see that rapid aging, that aggressive decline; and then you see what literally looks like this stunning recovery from 2007 to 2008; the wheelchair, looking pretty sickly, to being on my bike. But people noticed that if you line up photos from 2008, and keep going; I just keep looking younger and younger.

Now, my hair is still graying, so we have to take the hair out. But the quality of my skin looks younger and younger; I can walk further, I can get my arms up over my head. I’m doing pushups; and I’m up to 10, so that’s pretty exciting for me. And you know, I keep working closely with physical therapy, and they can keep advancing the exercises that I do.

I did get sidelined last year, because I ended up having surgery for some severe back pain. So since I was 60 when I had that, that has taken a little bit longer to recover from than I expected, but still, I’m out on the floor dancing; I’m walking, hiking, and biking once again.

Mickey Trescott: That’s so amazing. I better stay on my game, Terry; because your biological age is only a year older than me. You’re going to be younger than me soon! {laughs}

Dr. Terry Wahls: You know, my kids are laughing. They’re like, “Oh my god, mom. Are you like Merlin? You keep getting younger and younger.” So.

Mickey Trescott: Right.

Dr. Terry Wahls: We have a lot of laughter with that.

2. Utilizing a healing diet on a limited budget [6:56]

Angie Alt: So Terry; at the Nutritional Therapy Conference, one of the talks I attended was the panel discussion you were on about serving diverse and working class groups. That conversation is one that is just really extra close to my heart, because I don’t think healing has to be limited to certain groups, or those with upper class incomes. What are your kind of top 3 pointers on how to make a healing diet and lifestyle work, even on limited budgets, or in challenging settings; maybe geographic locations with limited access.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Oh sure. For years I worked at the VA, and in both my Traumatic Brain Injury Clinic and in my Therapeutic Lifestyle Clinic at the VA. Most of my patients did not have money; they were on fixed incomes. What they did have, was they had access to me, so they could come see me; Traumatic Brain Injury Clinic I would see them once every 6 months. The Lifestyle Clinic we could see them monthly for a year. And we could give cooking classes in my lifestyle clinic.

So in the cooking class, we taught people how to cook at home. I helped them understand that the food budget is everything you put in your mouth. It’s your alcohol, tobacco, fancy drinks, fancy coffees, lattes, fast food, restaurant meals; plus your grocery bill. And we total all of that up to get a food budget. Then I let people know what we have to do is begin cooking at home with vegetables and your source of meat. We had a different plan if you were a meat eater, or if you were vegetarian or vegan. We certainly still had people, even in the VA, who were vegetarian and vegan.

But really, the very most important thing is, most people had forgotten how to cook. Or their lives are too pressed for time, or for money. So they aren’t cooking. So we spent a lot of time teaching cooking skills, and we spent time teaching menu planning, prioritizing, and most importantly, how to eliminate food waste. Because most Americans are throwing away 40% of our food; whether we’re buying it in the grocery store, or at the restaurant. So learning how to better plan, so we actually consume all the food we buy, saves a considerable amount of money.

We were quite successful. We had many of our patients tell us; in the group classes the more senior folks would tell the newbies that you can do this and save money, but you’re going to have to plan. You’re going to have to pay attention in our cooking classes.

Angie Alt: Right. Those are such great tips, just kind of going back to; basically home economics 101 right there.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I can definitely also resonate with taking all of the restaurant meals and all of the stuff that people think of as an additional budget expense and really looping that into the entire food budget; and a lot of people on low incomes think that the grocery budget and maybe that other budget is separate. But when you put that all together, and you prepare all your food at home, and you brown-bag it for lunch, and you don’t do those extras that are also not helping your situation when you have health problems, like cigarettes and alcohol and coffees, and that kind of stuff; people find that they have a little more wiggle room there to actually afford that real food.

Dr. Terry Wahls: It’s really important to have that conversation of, “What is your food budget?” Because if you don’t, people will see the grocery bill doubling, and feel very uncomfortable with that. So, we learned that it was very important to have that big conversation about what’s in your food budget first. And then, we talk about planning, menus, and how we’re going to make this change in an affordable way.

3. The importance of diet shift in the medical community [11:01]

Mickey Trescott: That’s great. So Terry; one of the things that really impresses me about you is your willingness to work within disastrously broken system with both creativity and perseverance. I don’t know anyone like you who is just like willing to dig in and get this work done. At the NTA conference, you told the story about how you figured out how to recommend dietary and lifestyle modifications while working with veterans; it was a little unconventional and kind of; it was hard to do within that system. And I think a lot of practitioners get discouraged or lose hope when they run up against the system.

So you recently received a $1 million grant from the National MS Society to further your research on dietary and lifestyle interventions with MS. That is so fantastic; we’re so excited for you. Can you tell us how you think things are shifting in the medical community to accommodate more of this research and recommendations for diet and lifestyle changes?

Dr. Terry Wahls: I think it’s very helpful to have the public awareness; of course, the medical community, the scientific community. I think it’s also incredibly helpful that our awareness of how the environment is speaking to our genes through epigenetics, and creating either an inflamed, sickly, disease prone-body, or a resilient disease resistant body. So the epigenetic insights are helpful. The microbiome insights are helpful, and understanding how food changes the microbiome; and you change the microbiome, of course changes the risk for autoimmune disease and the severity of the autoimmune disease, as well as many other complicated, chronic health problems.

So, as my scientific colleagues could now measure the mechanisms by which diet and lifestyle works, they began to realize that we are not so crazy in our approaches. The public pressure goes to their various non-profit organizations, insisting that you need to support these researchers.

And another thing I think is very telling; and I heard from people who are big donors with some of these nonprofits, that these major donors went to the organizations to say, “If you want to continue receiving our support, you’re going to have to fund diet and lifestyle research.”

So I became aware of that; I wrote my protocol when they put out their call for research in the dietary realm, and I was funded. And I should be, because I’m one of the few people who have actually studied it in the last few years. So it’s no surprise that our research lab is very competitive.

Mickey Trescott: That’s so great. Terry, what do you think is the key to having the public be so well-informed and push?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Well, I think the key is having people who develop untreatable, incurable, devastating diseases, get hopelessly disabled, recover, have the extraordinary good fortune to do a TED Talk that has 3 million views.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Dr. Terry Wahls: That created; that experience, difficult as it was at the time, has been this incredible gift to me, and probably to humanity, because it put me in a position to learn all this stuff, experience all this stuff, recover, and because I happen to be well connected and I speak well. I told this story that’s deeply resonating; and then the public spread it in this pretty amazing way. I think this led then, I’m sure, to millions of conversations in doctors’ offices around the globe, saying, “What about diet?” And physician had to see that some of their patients would ignore the physician’s advice, do the diet that the 3 of us talk about, and see whatever their health problem was get under better control.

So physicians; I’ve been contacted by hundreds of physicians, maybe thousands now, who said, they thought it was pretty daft at first, but then they saw their patients were adopting these dietary recommendations, and their patients were improving, so the doctors; at least some of them, get on board and start handing the books out.

It’s really the beauty of the internet. It allows the spread of knowledge, of change, very, very rapidly. And without the internet, I could not have recovered. So that’s the good side; we could talk about the downside of the internet, which allows the spread of not helpful information, also. But the internet is what allows this amazing speed of change to occur.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, it is this incredible, incredible tool. {laughs} I mean, obviously Angie and I would also not; probably neither of us would have healed if we hadn’t seen your TED Talk, Terry. Honestly, for both of us, that was really instrumental in the beginning in inspiring us; so you’ve inspired another whole generation of people who are out there and writing and building this community, too.

4. Approaching your doctor about utilizing nutrition for health [16:32]

Mickey Trescott: I have one more follow-up question on that research piece, because I really do think this is where we take this from kind of a fringe, you know; anecdote kind of situation to actually being in doctor’s offices and being recommended. Do you have any advice for people that have diseases that are not multiple sclerosis, where maybe they can’t go to their doctor and say, “Hey look at this research,” how maybe they can be a part of this process to bringing the greater awareness?

Dr. Terry Wahls: I think you could still take the grant proposal linked to clinicaltrials.gov that describes my study, and the patients could still say, “Scientists are studying this diet. So we know it’s safe, and it has a reasonable possibility of helping people. I want to use this diet, here’s the book; do you have to do any special lab tests if I’m going to eat all these vegetables?” That’s the whole question you have to ask. “Do we need special lab tests? Do I have to be monitored?” Because there are some conditions where in fact they will need some additional lab monitoring on those extra vegetables. Or if you have kidney stones, you’d have to have a specific type of greens. And that’s really it.

I think the medical community would want to think we’re taking out grains, legumes, and dairy; we call that “fad diet”; it surely has to be nutritionally harmful. If we can go to our physician saying; “This diet is being studied; here’s the clinical trials. So we know it’s reasonably safe, and they have to think it has a good chance of helping people. And here’s a book about that diet; I want to follow it, is there any lab testing that needs to be done?” And of course the vast majority of the time, the answer would be no; we just watch you and adjust your medicines up or down as needed.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, really asking the patients to go for it and push it forward in their doctor’s offices. I love that empowerment piece. I think we autoimmune folks are often disempowered in our doctor’s offices, and then feeling like we should be put in the driver’s seat; I love that.

Dr. Terry Wahls: You know; the other thing I remind people is; the specialist was your dermatologist, your rheumatologist; your neurologist; isn’t going to feel comfortable knowing much about diet, and knowing much about vegetables. So that’s fine; just go to your primary care physician; nurse practitioner; physician’s assistant. Say, “I’m going to eat 9 cups of vegetables a day”; or try to; start off small, build up to all 9 cups. And if they aren’t excited about your eating more vegetables, fire them and get a new medical team.

Mickey Trescott: You heard it here, you guys!

Dr. Terry Wahls: Because universally, across many, many scientific studies; eating more vegetables lowers your risks of cancers, heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, obesity, autoimmunity, mental health problems. And so if you have someone who is not behind you on that, they are, in my mind, not in your best interest and you should go find another provider.

5. Dr. Wahls’ newest book [19:55]

Angie Alt: Right. Exactly. I love it. Great advice, Terry. Ok, so kind of transitioning a little bit. We would love to talk to you about this new book. Your first book was kind of focused on the protocol itself, and this book is sort of all about actually preparing this amazing food that you can eat to heal. There are some super delicious recipes included in the book, and it got me thinking; what inspires you in the kitchen? Is it a certain ingredient? A cooking technique? A cooking occasion? What is it that got your juices flowing for this newest book?

Dr. Terry Wahls: I really enjoy cooking. I’m a farm kid, so we ate all the meals at home, and it was very important that I know how to cook and feel comfortable with that. So I’ve always enjoyed cooking; I was very glad as I healed that I could get back into cooking. But I wrote this book because of my experience in the lifestyle clinic. What my vets taught me is that for many, many people, the single most important health-giving act I could give them was teaching them how to cook again, and having them be comfortable that they could learn these skills and making that use; learn how to start with a recipe and then feel comfortable with improvising off a recipe with what’s available in season; what your preferences are; what you have on hand; and teaching people how to do this within their economic reality.

Now my vets taught me that that was a vitally important thing to do. And now I’m thinking; well the next thing, because I’d been talking with my co-writer and my publisher about what is the next book; and then it just became apparent that the next book was teaching people how to take the next step.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, people love action. They love to be able to do something; and the cooking is actually the first thing they can do, right?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Absolutely. The cooking is so powerful, and I am very mindful that people may be pressed for money, or they may be pressed for time, or they may be pressed for energy because they are fatigued. So I tried very much to write this book assuming that people would be having to struggle with one or all three of those areas.

Mickey Trescott: I think that is actually one of the most incredible gifts of this book, Terry; is actually that you have written it from the assumption that your readers, you know intimately what they’re experiencing, and that is a huge part of what we work on with people in our world, too. Just being sick and fatigued and having to spend a lot of money on health care that you don’t have. It’s just a lot to kind of fulfill all those goals, and it can be really overwhelming for a lot of people.

Dr. Terry Wahls: You know; you work with a chef that make these wonderful, wonderful meals that takes me 10 hours to prepare. It’s like; it’s just not, I don’t have 10 hours. I don’t have 3 hours. We need to have things that people can enjoy in half an hour.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Dr. Terry Wahls: And an occasional special event that, yes, you can get some help and spend a couple more hours to make a very special event, but we need day in, day out simple easy food that people can enjoy.

6. Templates, not recipes [23:26]

Mickey Trescott: Totally agree. So Terry, one of my favorite aspects of your book is that you include templates instead of straight recipes throughout. I’ve taught a lot of people to cook over the years, and one of the biggest barriers that I see in people learning how to cook for themselves long-term is people who are only comfortable cooking from recipes that call for specific ingredients they have on hand. So I have this big long list of why this is a problem; it doesn’t’ account for flexibility, it contributes to food waste; it can be more costly for them. It really teaches people to rely on these instructions instead of using their brain, being creative, all of those things. So can you tell us a little bit about your reasons using templates, and kind of how that works in your own kitchen?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Because I want people to feel comfortable moving into a place where they don’t need a recipe to cook. And to do that, it’s always much easier if you can break it down into steps. So the first step was to create a template for each major food category, and I would do it according to my level 1 diet, level 2, level 3 diet. And then I gave examples of how I take the same recipe and I might transition between the 3 levels. If you want to be ketogenic, or you weren’t ketogenic.

So we’d have several examples of different meals you could make from that template, and then we’d move on to; “Ok, it’s time for you to adapt this to your personal taste.” So we give people very clear directions for simple, enjoyable recipes, that they can follow step by step. We tell them how many vegetables are going to be in that recipe, so they have a sense of where they’re at in their 9 cups; then we invite them to personalize this. The herbs, the meats, the vegetables, according to what’s in season and what is their culinary tradition.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome; I love that Terry. Are there any special kitchen tools that you recommend that make this a lot easier for people?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Sure. So this is going to depend on hand function. And certainly in the autoimmune world, gripping can become difficult. So we have some links to occupational resources for hand gadgets to make it easier to cut, to hold knives, forks, etc. So that was one set of tools.

I think a high-powered blender, like a Vitamix or a Blendmaster, Nutribullet, can be very helpful. A food processor to do your grating and shredding can be helpful. I didn’t want to spend all that money on a fancy Vitamix; I thought, you know, who’s going to spend $300 on a blender. So I waited until my original blender had died, then I got the Vitamix, and I so enjoyed it, and I thought, “Now why on earth did I wait a year and a half? This was just silly of me.” If you have the resources, go get a reconditioned one. I think you’ll be surprised at how much you enjoy it. They are really, really nice. I still have mine now; it’s on 6 years, doing great.

The other gadget I think would be very helpful is a food processor for grating, chopping. Its’ really nice for making pesto, the Wahls fudge, which is a treat every family that has grandchildren should have, because then you could give those kids something that they’ll really enjoy; and if you have some, as well, it’s going to be good for you as well.

7. Dr. Wahls’ go-to meal [27:15]

Angie Alt: I would agree with pretty much all of those kitchen gadgets there. Terry; do you have a favorite dish that you kind of repeatedly go back to? It’s healing, it’s comforting, it’s kind of the thing that’s at the top of your list?

Dr. Terry Wahls: It’s going to be sort of a long list here.

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Dr. Terry Wahls: I love to have bone broth; so during the winter we always have some bone broth going, and I’ll go between chicken broth and beef broth. So a beef hoof is ideal; chicken feet are ideal, you can get that from your butcher. So that’s just a lovely winter time food. Liver and onions is so healing. We really like to have liver and onions once a week, so I’ll rotate between bison, lamb, and chicken liver. Beef and pork are fine, too, but those are probably my 3 favorites. And day in and day out, we make skillet meals. So I’ll cook some meat; might be lamp chops, then I’ll add vegetables for 2 more minutes, and then I serve. So I can have that whole meal done, including chopping my vegetables, within 30 minutes. So, a skillet meal in my mind is a huge workhorse kind of meal that I have.

And when I’m having friends and family over, I like to make Wahls fudge, and then open up a can of coconut milk, whip that up in my Vitamix, put it in a wide-mouth jar in the refrigerator, get it cold; it’s like a lovely whipped cream. Put a dollop of that on the Wahls fudge; and people are like, “Oh my god this is… is this really legal for you?” {laughs}

Angie Alt: {laughs}

Dr. Terry Wahls: I’m like, oh yeah, it’s strictly legal, it’s really good for your, it’s really great for your brain. So I think it’s important to have some treats like that that can be very special food; can be great for your grandchildren and your kids; and it actually is healing.

Angie Alt: Right; I love that. I love when you can prepare something that’s kind of a delicious dessert; a special treat for a special occasion, but it still fits into that healing template. It doesn’t have to be all boring, or not exciting and fun to eat and share with family and friends.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Correct. Correct.

Angie Alt: Terry, I saw that recently you took a trip to Italy on Instagram.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Yes!

Angie Alt: That seems like a lot of fun, with your family. Did you learn anything about healing or food culture there that you could share?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Well, as a matter of fact I did. We went out to some olive ranches, or olive farms. So they were picking their olives, and the olives that are used for olive oil are a little different than olives that are going to be used for just munching on for pleasure. So that was a very interesting thing to observe. And many of these farms will have their olives pressed, will make their own small, high-end olive oil.

You know, there’s a lot of controversy about olive oil in the United States being diluted with less valuable oils that are not as healing as the high-end extra virgin olive oils. So it’s worth paying attention to the quality of your olive oil; and it is a fabulous, healing food. It tastes pretty good too.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah I love; I mean, you can really taste a really nice high quality olive oil; it just adds a lot of flavor. Especially made in dressings on salads and stuff; that’s my favorite way to get it.

Dr. Terry Wahls: It’s sort of like the Vitamix thing; I thought that high-end olive oil was sort of a waste of money, and then I had some. And we’ve never gone back to the other stuff since I tasted it.

Angie Alt: Right! {laughs}

Mickey Trescott: You know, and people can find some creatively sourced, better olive oil. So if you go to Whole Foods or something, they’re going to have some over-priced stuff; but I’ve actually found some great olive oils at Trader Joes and Thrive Market online. And there’s even some direct to consumer, mail order, that you can buy online options that are just way cheaper than if you were going to buy them in a specialty store.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Yeah, absolutely.

8. Success stories from the Lifestyle Clinic [31:42]

Mickey Trescott: So Terry; can you share with us some success stories from your Lifestyle Clinic?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Sure. So, there’s a person I’m thinking of who had rheumatoid arthritis, had severe pain, and was greatly, greatly struggling to walk in to the hospital from the car; was consulting getting a walker; a scooter. She got referred to our clinic. We put her on what really is the level 4 Wahls diet; so Wahls paleo, but we took out nightshades, as well. And her pain steadily went down, she lost 60 pounds. She too looked younger and younger, and was up walking around, looking really great. She went to see her daughter, who didn’t recognize her in the airport because mom had lost all this weight, and mom was looking well, and she was up walking around really very well.

Mickey Trescott: Wow.

Dr. Terry Wahls: We’ve had a number of folks with; I’d say the most common people reason came to us in the Lifestyle Clinic was uncontrolled pain. So success stories with many types of neuropathies; people had chronic pain because of shrapnel and war injuries; residuals from the amputations; these folks getting their lives back, getting off narcotics, doing well.

Diabetes, obesity, fatty liver; that was pretty easy. We’ve had several folks with end-stage heart failure, who were on the waiting list for heart transplants, who we turned around, and they are functioning much better again. Doing very, very well. Traumatic brain injury folks; and you can really tell in the traumatic brain injury; the folks who would embrace our program, they’re much more likely to be done with their headaches, be done with the light sensitivity; still employed, and still with their family. The folks who couldn’t make that change were far more likely to continue to spiral down in a very negative way.

9. Response to the naysayers [34:08]

Mickey Trescott: Terry, what do you say to doctors, or people in the medical community, who are like, “There is no way this can work for that many things.” People might be listening and they’re like, “Really? End stage heart failure and rheumatoid arthritis.”

Dr. Terry Wahls: And dementia, and Alzheimer’s. Wahls; this is crazy. That approach; when I would talk this way in the beginning in 2008, it drove my colleagues crazy. Because it just did not make sense to them. Now, in 2017, people are like; you are such a brilliant visionary. So I think the public has shifted many more of my scientific colleagues because of the advances of the microbiome, epigenetics, see the mechanisms by which this could work.

And I’m also careful to say, “Yep. All these things have reduced the symptom burden of these diseases. They have reduced the need for medications. As long as they follow these dietary changes, they do well. If they stop, they’re symptoms will of course, flare.” So I try to be very careful to not say, “I cure these diseases. I can say that “We’ll reduce the symptom burden by improving diet and lifestyle.” And people seem to be pretty comfortable with that.

But the acceptance in the medical community is markedly different. Now of course, that could be an impact being at the VA and being at the University, and them seeing our research program do well with successful grants. And you and I will see; many folks find the Wahls diet, and the consumption of greens is definitely increased; and the consumption of vegetables have increased.

It’s a hoot when I go to the grocery store, the produce managers come out and tell me; “Dr. Wahls, every year, year after year, the vegetable and the green consumption goes up in this town.” And it’s because; it is so cool.

Angie Alt: They have you to thank, Terry. {laughs}

Dr. Terry Wahls: And the internet, and all of that. It’s just such a wonderful thing. Which leaves me very optimistic about the health care crisis epidemic that we’re all having to deal with that more and more of the public is getting the message that food matters.

Mickey Trescott: I love that. And Terry, I’ve also noticed the same thing in my small town. I live in a little bit rural Oregon, and the local grocery store is like our local version of a Walmart, and they have the most incredible organic fruit and vegetable section, and they actually recently started having fresh raw whole turmeric, and I was saying to my husband, “Things are changing.” When you know that kind of, basically department store, has bulk turmeric in their organic fruits and vegetables section, people are demanding it, and they’re asking for it, and they’re eating real food. Which is awesome.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Exactly. It is a very exciting time, because of the internet, people are noticing everyone’s stories of healing. And we’re shifting public expectations around food. Now, of course, we all wish it would happen more quickly. But still, it is happening. And when I think of where we were at in 2008 and 2009 when I was being warned for talking about vegetables and B vitamins and fish oil; to being heralded now as this brilliant visionary at the university. Wonderful things are happening.

Angie Alt: Right, I’m actually really excited at the speed it’s going at. You know, I used to feel I think a little more downhearted about it, Terry, and then we talked to you a few years ago, and you were like, you know, being in that system and having a much more longer view than we had, you were saying, “No, it’s happening actually at breathtaking speed right now.” That really changed my outlook on it, and I’ve had a lot more hope since then. It’s awesome to watch it.

10. What’s coming up for Dr. Wahls [38:12]

Angie Alt: Maybe, Terry, you could tell us, what have you got up your sleeve after launching this book into the world. Do you have more plans still?

Dr. Terry Wahls: Yeah, wonderfully exciting things are happening. So I’m working on my book; I’m also working on opening up a very limited private practice. So I encourage your listeners to sign up to my newsletter so they can get the announcement about what we’re offering in the private practice world. We have the seminar; every year in August we have people coming from around the globe to hang out with us, where I teach people what I’ve learned in the last year, and how to implement the protocol. And we’re also trying to work on creating more online tools to support people as they try to implement these dietary measures. So more ways to get help from me and my team.

Angie Alt: Well, there she is, you guys; being purpose driven as always. We didn’t expect her to just be sitting around. {laughs} Terry, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. You are probably sick of us fawning over you every chance we get, but we really believe it is people like you who are going to help turn the tide of disease around the world.

You guys; please pick up a copy of Terry’s book. It’s out now; it’s titled The Wahls Protocol Cooking for Life. Terry, can you let our listeners know where they can follow up with you?

Dr. Terry Wahls: You can go to www.TerryWahls.com. You can follow me on Facebook; Terry Wahls, MD. On Twitter @TerryWahls; or on Instagram @DrTerryWahls.

Angie Alt: Thanks so much, Terry.

Mickey Trescott: Thank you, Terry. Bye.

Dr. Terry Wahls: Thank you.

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 2!

Bonus Ep: Hashimoto’s Protocol and Thyroid Wellness w/ Dr. Izabella Wentz is our first episode in nearly 6 months (!) and we’re treating it as a little surprise introduction to Season 2. In this episode, we interview our close friend Izabella Wentz, also known as the thyroid pharmacist. We dig into her experience hacking her own thyroid disease, as well as the ways in which she is now giving thyroid disease patients the power to take back their health.

Topics we discuss include the uniqueness of Hashimoto’s in the chronic illness world, the importance of self-care, and most importantly, the multiple root causes of Hashimoto’s (Izabella’s specialty). This is a powerful episode with one of the foremost voices in the Hashimoto’s community, perfect for folks with thyroid disease who are looking for answers. Scroll down for the full episode transcript.

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

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Full Transcript:

Mickey Trescott: Welcome to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast, a complimentary resource for those on the road to recovery. I’m Mickey Trescott, a nutritional therapy practitioner living well with autoimmune disease in Oregon. I’ve got both Hashimoto’s and Celiac disease.

Angie Alt: And I’m Angie Alt, a certified health coach and nutritional therapy consultant, also living well with autoimmune disease in Maryland. I have endometriosis, lichen sclerosis, and Celiac disease. After recovering our health by combining the best of conventional medicine with effective and natural dietary and lifestyle interventions, Mickey and I started blogging at www.Autimmune-Paleo.com, where our collective mission is seeking wellness and building community.

Mickey Trescott: This podcast is sponsored by The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook; our co-authored guide to living well with chronic illness. We saw the need for a comprehensive resource that goes beyond nutrition to connect savvy patients, just like you, to the resources they need to achieve vibrant health. Through the use of self assessments, checklists, handy guides and templates, you get to experience the joy of discovery; finding out which areas to prioritize on your healing journey. Pick up a copy wherever books are sold.

Angie Alt: A quick disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended as general information only, and is not to be substituted for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Onto the podcast!

Topics:
1. Introducing our guest, Dr. Izabella Wentz [2:36]
2. Hashimoto’s Protocol book release [9:58]
3. The uniqueness of Hashimoto’s [16:41]
4. The liver support protocol [19:36]
5. Self-care: You cannot pour from an empty cup [26:20]
6. The multiple root causes of Hashimoto’s [31:09]

Mickey Trescott: Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Autoimmune Wellness podcast. Mickey here, and Angie and I are super excited to be back with you guys. We’ve taken 6 months off from our podcasting adventure. Can you believe it’s been that long, Angie?

Angie Alt: No, it feels like it was just a few weeks ago that we were releasing everything.

Mickey Trescott: Seriously.

Angie Alt: I mean, honestly we don’t really know how podcasters who have regular shows do it; putting all of this content, editing, and all the details. It’s kind of a lot of work, you guys! {laughs} We do much better producing and releasing our podcasts in batches and seasons. And we hope you guys are enjoying the seasonal format, too.

We’ve actually already recorded our entire second season, which we can’t wait to share with you guys. Because the format is going to be a little bit different this time around, we wanted to bring you two pre-season bonus episodes featuring interviews with two incredible women doing great work in our community as a way to whet your appetite for what’s to come. Mickey, do you want to tell your listeners about our first incredible woman?

1. Introducing our guest, Dr. Izabella Wentz [2:36]

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; so, our guest today is none other than Dr. Izabella Wentz, also known as the thyroid pharmacist and leader of the root cause rebels. Lest you guys think that is a clever band name; it actually stands for community of people who have successfully hacked their thyroid disease. Izabella has made quite a splash in the thyroid community in the last few years since the release of her bestselling book; Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, Finding and Treating the Root Cause. And the release of The Thyroid Secret documentary series, which you guys, probably, if you’ve been following on our email list or have been on the internet at all in the last 3 months have heard about; hopefully you guys participated in. It was a really incredible experience for everyone. So informative.

And Izabella’s newest book that came out this week; Hashimoto’s Protocol. Izabella is definitely a lady on a mission to spread the word far and wide about healing from thyroid disease, and we feel absolutely blessed to call her a friend and have her in our community. Welcome, Izabella!

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Angie, Mickey, I’m so excited to be here with you ladies today. How are you?

Mickey Trescott: We are awesome.

Angie Alt: We’re great!

Mickey Trescott: Yeah.

Angie Alt: Even better with you on the show. So maybe we’ll just kind of get started. Izabella, you are fresh off the launch of your Thyroid Secret documentary; woot, woot! We promoted it and heard from our followers that it was one of the most thorough and informative resources on thyroid disease they had ever seen. You interviewed literally hundreds of experts as well as patients all over the world; it was really incredible. Can you tell us what inspired you to do a project on such a massive scale?

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Of course, and thank you for being a part of The Thyroid Secret, as well. We, of course, interviewed Mickey as part of that, and it was fantastic to have her share with people how effective the autoimmune paleo diet can be, and how important it can be as part of a healing protocol for people with thyroid disease.

Really, my big passion is ever since I got my health back; I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s in 2009 after almost a decade of some pretty debilitating symptoms, and kind of mystery symptoms, and I was told they were all in my head and all that good stuff. Until I actually took charge of my own health and was able to recover my health. From that point on, I wanted to spread the message to the world that recovering from autoimmune disease is possible, and that you can feel like yourself again, even if you’ve been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s or Graves’ disease. And really just trying everything that I could do to get this message out there.

The documentary series; I’ve written a book about Hashimoto’s; Hashimoto’s, the Root Cause was my first book, and I have Hashimoto’s Protocol which just came out this week, which is a protocol based book. But I wanted to get together with a group of like-minded individuals; so health care professionals and experts like you ladies, as well as patients who have taken back and recovered their health to create this community and create sort of a movement to share the best practices, to share our stories; to share our research, and inspire and really get the world moving and excited about health recovery, and giving them; raising that awareness and giving people and opportunity to understand and see that people are recovering from thyroid disease every day.

That was really my big motivation behind it; I wanted to get this message out into the broader world; and I know some people with thyroid disease, the brain fog prevents them from reading wonderful books such as ours, and even reading blogs, but sometimes just watching something on a screen can be really helpful in helping people absorb the information.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; Izabella, I think that the documentary format is just genius because it’s really visual. A lot of people are really visual learners, and seeing you interview and ask these questions, and seeing all these experts and hearing from all these patients; it’s so much more moving to a certain type of person; a certain type of learner that I think that connection is a lot deeper. And then it spurs action, not only in people’s own lives, but then the conversations that they’re having with their friends and family; maybe that’s even sharing the documentary and getting some validation in what they’re going through. And then going into their doctor’s offices and being informed; and saying, you know, “you’re not the only doctor on the planet that doesn’t believe in this. Look; there’s a whole movement of people out here that are fighting for our care,” and it just really empowers them. So it’s really, really awesome; they loved it.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Yeah, my goal is to create 10,000 success stories with The Thyroid Secret documentary and with my Hashimoto’s Protocol book, and it’s been really, really exciting to see the ripple effect of this. As your listeners know, nutrition is a really, really important part of recovering your health. I was really excited about one story; it was a woman who watched The Thyroid Secret; in episode 5, we focused on nutrition. Right after that episode, she changed over to the autoimmune paleo diet, and by episode 9, she said shew as feeling completely transformed. She had gotten her energy back, and joint pains, and all these symptoms started shedding away from her. And it’s like; the more we can spread awareness about all of these interventions that can change a person’s life, change how they feel, and prevent the progression of autoimmunity; then let’s get this out in a big way, right?

Angie Alt: Yeah, I love that. Those kind of stories; they don’t get old for me. It still gives me goosebumps to hear it, it still makes me; you know, I’m a crier, but it still makes me on the edge of tears. It’s dramatically changing people’s quality of life is such an awesome way to spend your life work, you know? You’re doing a great job on that massive scale. I love it.

Mickey Trescott: And you know, the social media, and implementing this kind of online business stuff; you and your husband have been really, really good at leveraging that tool that I think a lot of us get really burnt out and exhausted trying to get the word out through the online environment. It can be a little bit toxic at times; so you guys really figured out how to kind of hit that where you got people’s attention, you got a lot of building this massive community and people really excited about it, because this is what we need to change the symptoms. You know, we need a large movement of people that are ready to kind of go to battle and get that awareness out there. So it’s awesome.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. We’ve reached 500,000 people with the documentary series; and it’s all a collaboration of our work together, and we’re all sharing our best practices with that.

2. Hashimoto’s Protocol book release [9:58]

Mickey Trescott: That’s just incredible. So, right on the heels of this massive launch, you also have a new book out. You sound like the same kind of crazy person cut from the same cloth that Angie and I are; called Hashimoto’s Protocol: A 90-day plan for reversing thyroid symptoms and getting your life back. So for any of you guys who are listening who may have read Izabella’s first book; you will know that she is very detailed, and there is a ton of information there. I remember when I first got my hands on that book, I was like; holy cow. This is a lot. So what inspired you to write the second book, and how are they different from each other?

Dr. Izabella Wentz: {laughs} So it was a reader, a Pilates teacher, and a discovery of liver support; plus all of my experience with working with over 1,000 people with Hashimoto’s.

To make kind of a long story short; my first book, Hashimoto’s, the Root Cause; it was me recovering my health, and the book was about my story and all the research that I did to help myself. And I just wanted to put it out there for people and say; “Hey, I don’t know every single root cause, and I don’t know what triggered your condition. Here are some things that worked for me, and these are some additional things that may work for you. These are all of the different things that I researched that could potentially help with autoimmune thyroid disease. Some of them work for me; others did not.”

So that was my first book. And I started speaking about Hashimoto’s after that point, and I started working exclusively with people with Hashimoto’s, and just really made it my life’s work, and my focus, and of course, my passion. And I was speaking at an event in Chicago; this was in 2014, early 2014. And I met this wonderful woman named Teresa, and she said, “You know, I really love digging for my health.” My first book talked about the dig at it approach, where you figure out what your individual triggers were, and you kind of dig for these triggers. I try to create a funky acronym, right? {laughs} For it, where it was digestion, infections, gut, adrenals, toxins, inflammation, so on and so forth.

And she said, “I really enjoy digging for my health; but I really wish you would just give me done for me protocols where you tell me exactly what to do. Tell me what I need to eat; tell me what I need to change. Can you give me a plan?” And at first I was like; yeah, I could give you a plan, but I don’t want people to think I’m biased, or I have all these competing interests or whatnot. And I’m like, I think maybe it’s best for people to learn as much as they can, and then pick out what works for them, right?

Then, a little bit after that I had a Pilates session with a pretty intense Pilates instructor who kept telling me which muscles I was using; she gave me Pilates homework, she tried to quiz me in anatomy. And at that point I was like, “oh. Well I don’t want to be a Pilates expert, I sort of just want to be in good shape.” Right? And then I realized that maybe not everybody wanted to necessarily be a Hashimoto’s expert, which my first book sort of taught people to be their own experts. The second book focuses on giving people protocols; so this is exactly the steps you need to take to recover your health.

And the steps I developed came from my work with clients, and these are the protocols that have worked for about 80% of people; we saw very positive significant results. One of these protocols is actually the very first of my fundamental protocols in Hashimoto’s protocol called the liver support protocol. This focuses on helping people support their liver through removing the low-hanging toxic fruit, adding specific nutrients to help themselves detoxify better, and removing specific foods, as well as adding other types of foods into their regimen, and what I’ve found is within 2 weeks of doing the liver support protocol, people see significant difference in their symptoms.

I first discovered this when I was working with a client that was really just reactive to everything; so I would recommend a B-vitamin to her, and she would say, “oh, I had a negative reaction.” Or a probiotic, and she had a negative reaction to that. And she had multiple chemical sensitivities; a lot of joint pains, very high thyroid antibodies and brain fog, and even depression. I wanted to figure out how I could help her right away and very quickly without necessarily doing protocols to rebalance her gut, which can take some time, or get rid of infections; that can actually weaken people in the short term.

So I started doing a little bit more research, and found that a lot of times when people have multiple chemical sensitivities, and a lot of sensitivities; it’s because their liver is overloaded with toxins and they’re not properly getting rid of them. So I put her on this liver support protocol hoping that it would help just a little bit, but I got a message from her within a week that said, “Oh my goodness! I’m at the shopping mall with my kids. I haven’t been able to walk past a Yankee Candle store in years because of my chemical sensitivities. And my joint pain is better; my headaches have resolved, I have more energy; I’m not as depressed.” And her thyroid antibodies also reduced the next time she had them done. So this is something that could help people within two weeks; and I really wanted to get this out into the world, as well as all of the other protocols that I discovered in working with over 1000 clients over the last few years.

Angie Alt: My gosh, I love that. I think the reality is that for all of us who write books, there’s probably kind of multiple threads that lead to that inspiration. But I love that you have pinpointed the three; you knew exactly how you got there.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: {laughs} Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun working on getting this information out into the world, and just trying to summarize everything I’ve learned since that point. I’ve uncovered additional protocols, and additional triggers that I didn’t know about a few years ago, just learning so much from my clients as well as some of the latest research that’s come out since my first book was published.

3. The uniqueness of Hashimoto’s [16:41]

Angie Alt: Right. So, we’d love to dig into some of the topics you cover in your book. Early on you make the distinction that Hashimoto’s disease has some unique symptoms compared to other thyroid disorders, including the ability to fluctuate between what is commonly known as hyper and hypothyroid symptoms. Can you tell us more about this, and give our listeners some background on this concept? I think it might ring some bells for some folks.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Yeah. I know when most people are diagnosed with a thyroid condition, the doctors tell them the thyroid is sluggish, or underactive; right? Or that it’s overactive. But with Hashimoto’s, what it is is an autoimmune attack on the thyroid gland. And definitely in the early stages, or when the attack is severe enough, we start seeing a rush of thyroid hormones into the blood stream. And this rush of thyroid hormones produces kind of a transient overactive thyroid or hyperthyroid; and we can feel like we’re on an emotional and physical roller coaster. Because we’ll have this influx of thyroid hormones, and we might feel anxious. We might have palpitations. We might feel really irritable. We might be losing weight.

And then once that gets cleared out of the body, we start having hypothyroid symptoms, so we may have depression, we may be really tired, we may have brain fog, we may feel really sluggish. So this is a part of Hashimoto’s that not many people are aware of, and in some cases they feel like they’re crazy. They don’t know why that’s happening to them. And this can happen for at least the first 10 years of when a person has Hashimoto’s, that they fluctuate between overactive and underactive.

Mickey Trescott: Izabella, I have a question too, as a thyroid patient who has definitely experienced this. It seemed to me, also, that it wouldn’t swing back and forth as clearly; sometimes I would have those hyper-ish symptoms, like the crazy heart palpitations and the anxiety along with that bone-crushing fatigue. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that, too?

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Yeah, absolutely. And that potentially could be because we might have too much thyroid hormone in one place, where as other parts of our body are not getting sufficient thyroid hormone, right? So, it’s not being distributed evenly, and then you end up with; and I say this sarcastically, but the best of both worlds.

Mickey Trescott: {laughs}

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Because you end up with having hypothyroid and hyperthyroid symptoms all at once. You’re like; “Really, I’m anxious and exhausted?” I know certainly that was my experience, too, where I was like; how. How is this possible when I first got diagnosed, because I’m like; you’re telling me I have this, but half of my symptoms are on the over-active side. And this can be very confusing and frustrated, and that’s definitely a part of the condition, to understand.

4. The liver support protocol [19:36]

Mickey Trescott: So, Izabella, in your book you present three main protocols that those with Hashimoto’s can use to get their health on track. You already talked a little bit about liver, your liver protocol, and I want to talk about it a little more.

So, I will admit I was a little worried when I saw that you recommend a liver support protocol as a first step, because I personally was hospitalized because of a detoxification protocol gone wrong in the early days of my recovery. I was actually prescribed a smoothie based detox by my naturopath, and it did not end up well for me.

That being said, when I actually read that chapter in your book, I was so relieved and actually really impressed to see how on your recommendations are with kind of a gentle approach, not to overwhelm people. I think there’s a lot of detox crazy going out there right now that is really inappropriate for a lot of autoimmune people, but your four-step liver support protocol; I’d love for you to talk about it a little more. Because I think a lot of people are confused and don’t think they are detoxing unless they’re doing something that is really harsh and really producing even some really nasty negative symptoms, and what you’re proposing is actually very gentle and very level-headed, and a lot of people wouldn’t even consider it detox.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Right. And that’s why I call it the liver support protocol, and not the detox protocol. And some people; they don’t really understand the difference between the two, and I certainly didn’t when I was first starting on my healing journey. So detox is something that forces toxins out, right, and so let’s say I like to use the analogy of an over-worked kind of office worker at maybe a government job, right? And what’s happening to her in Hashimoto’s, is she just have way too much stuff to do. Way too many toxins to process. So if you could imagine her desk, it’s covered. Piles and piles of papers; and she has to process out all these papers, and somebody comes up to her with just one little thing to do, and she’s like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so overwhelmed, I can’t get this done for weeks!” Even though this one task would take her just a minute to complete.

And that’s sort of the same thing with Hashimoto’s; when you have a congested liver; the liver is so over-burdened with all these different things that it doesn’t have the right kind of nutrients or capacity to get rid of the toxins, and it doesn’t have the stamina. So a toxin that should normally leave your body in a relatively short amount of time sticks around for a really, really long time and just goes through your body and recirculates rather than getting removed properly. And then we end up being sensitive to things in our environment, like benign chemicals and what not. So that’s sort of the problem that you have.

Now, there are a few different ways that you can address this problem, and one of the ways is through liver support where you would bring in, like a support person, that could help this woman process and get all of her papers done, right? So you’re helping her a long, you’re making sure that your kind of doubling her workup. And that’s what liver support is, right?

What detox would be is if you were to come into her office in the middle of the night while she was at home, and just started cleaning all of her papers up and try to put them away in different places, and maybe threw some of them out. So that’s sort of what happens in detox; and as you can imagine, things can go crazy if you don’t have the right systems in place. I know some of the detox protocols out there, like doing chelation for example; this basically removes toxins from where they’re sitting in your body, and sort of recirculates them. And then you need; if your liver was perfectly fine, your liver would maybe get rid of them; but what happens in autoimmune disease is that these toxins can recirculate and get into another part of your body.

Now, this happened to me when I tried to take spirulina, which is a detox kind of molecule or whatnot. I tried to detox myself, and I ended up having a new autoimmune condition. So I ended up with giant papillary conjunctivitis; which was giant pimples on my eyelids; not fun, don’t recommend it. And what happened was the toxins were getting redistributed in my body; in my eyelids, specifically, and not getting cleared out.

There are other protocols, like coffee enemas. These can be really, really great for really healthy people; but a lot of people with autoimmune disease are very much debilitated and those can actually be potentially problematic. High dose iodine can detoxify, but that ends up stirring a lot of things in the meantime, and it can actually be inflammatory for people with Hashimoto’s.

With the liver support protocol, what I do with my clients is I give them nutrients and some liver supporting herbs to help them process that backlog. And it’s very, very gentle where we just kind of speed up your own body’s natural ways of getting rid of toxins. So part of that is moving them out of the liver but using specific liver nutrients, like milk thistle and various vitamins and amino acids that support those pathways. By introducing more sweat into your life. So the skin is our largest detox organ, and most people with an underactive thyroid don’t sweat enough. It’s not something they complain about, but it’s something that’s definitely deficient. So getting more sweat happening is going to be really, really positive.

The other big thing is removing those low-hanging fruits. So removing the foods that aren’t going to be potentially toxic; removing fluoride from your everyday use; that starts to free up the liver to start getting rid of that backlog, right? And then of course, I love utilizing supportive foods, so things like hot lemon water, green smoothies, so on and so-forth to help your own detox pathways; not do a forceful detox.

Angie Alt: Love it. I think Mickey and I were sitting over here in our nutritional therapy offices going, “Yes, yes! Totally right on.” I just love it. And your example of how this works; your office lady. This really gives a great illustration to people to understand why gentle is probably better.

5. Self-care: You cannot pour from an empty cup [26:20]

Angie Alt: Let’s talk a little bit about the surveys you did over your 2,000 Hashimoto’s patients. One of the not surprising but interesting results was in the adrenal recovery protocol, where you report your findings about lifestyle habits, and situations that make them feel better. I just want to read a few of these off. So, sleeping, 74%; spending time with loved ones, 73%, being in nature 71%, walking 66%; compared to things that make people feel worse. So, lack of sleep 95%, being stressed out 93%. For those of us with autoimmune disease, this may seem obvious, but it’s really interesting to look at the numbers here. Can you talk a little bit about the disconnect between what we know is better for us, and the lifestyle habits we actually engage in on a regular basis? And I think we’re probably all a little guilty. {laughs}

Dr. Izabella Wentz: You know, this is kind of a big passion point for me. I recently shared a meme to my Instagram page; and it was basically, I think women are especially at risk for this, and it said, “Calling a woman high maintenance is a great way to put down a woman who cares about herself.” And there’s this stigma around women caring for themselves. Our, I guess our value is derived in how we care for other people, and our accomplishments. And self-care, self-love, self-compassion is seen as selfish. It’s like, “Oh, well you’re spending all this money on yourself, and you’re resting when you could be volunteering somewhere and you’re doing all of this and all of that.”

I know for me, that was a huge reframe, where I was like; wow, maybe it’s ok for me not to take over the entire world and do every little thing by myself and actually let other people help. Maybe it’s ok for me to; I ended up working part time as part of my healing journey. And that, for me, I feel good because I felt like my accomplishments were what brought value to my life.

I think, for me, the big way to reframe that is thinking about how an empty cup can never fill another cup. So what we want to do is we want to fill our cups so full of self-love, self-care, and self-compassion, that we can just give from our overflow. Because then it’s not such a burden.

I know for me, if I’m ever not taking care of myself, I end up being resentful towards other people. I’m not the best Izabella to my loved ones; I’m not the best Izabella to anybody in my life if I’m not taking care of me first. And so I know this is a really big, big habit change. It’s one of those things, like stress; changing how you respond to stress and how much stress you take on, it’s one of those things that doesn’t require a fancy doctor or fancy supplements, or even necessarily a lot of money, but it’s one of the hardest things to do. It’s also one of the most important things.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah; I mean when you look at these numbers, it’s like out of the 2,000 people that responded to your survey, 95% of them said lack of sleep they know make them feel worse, and being stressed out 93%. Those are 2 things that; not everything, but a lot of those things are within their control. They can set a bedtime, they can troubleshoot those sleep issues, they can acknowledge that stress and make a plan for trying to dial it down or manage it better. But it’s still surprising knowing how much better that makes us feel how high those numbers are, and it really tells me that; you know, everyone is suffering from this. Everyone is having a hard time. I think part of it is just cultural; what you said, Izabella, about women just over-doing it and not really taking that time for self-care because the stigma is totally spot-on.

Angie Alt: Maybe we need to start a girl’s club, ladies, where we cheer each other on for putting ourselves first and really diving into these self-care practices.

Mickey Trescott: Yeah, I think that’s a great thing, maybe an action item for anyone listening. You know, if you notice someone else in your life taking some time to take care of themselves, cheer them on, you know! Say, “you know what, I noticed that you’re trying to take care of yourself,” and applaud them. They’re going to be a better friend, or a better wife, or a better teacher; whatever they do because they’re taking that effort, and I think we should acknowledge it more.

Angie Alt: #Selfcare.

Mickey Trescott: Yep.

Angie Alt: Right.

6. The multiple root causes of Hashimoto’s [31:09]

Mickey Trescott: So Izabella; a big misconception I’ve noticed kind of floating around our Hashimoto’s community is that there is one underlying magical root cause to anyone’s personal particular disease. And in the advanced protocol sections of your book, you provide a lot of self-tests people can use to uncover different areas they should look at. So maybe you could speak to those people who seem to be tirelessly looking for this one root cause; instead of looking at that bigger picture, and how to narrow that down with some of the advanced protocols you’ve given.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Sure. So, the 6 categories where I would put root causes are going to be food sensitivities, nutrient depletions, impaired ability handle stress, impaired ability to handle toxins, intestinal permeability, and chronic infections. And when I really thought about what all of those different root causes have in common; when you go back to it, all of them; whatever, if it’s toxins, or having food sensitivities, or not enough nutrients on board, or even stress in our lives. All of those messages send a signal to our body that we’re not safe. And that we need to conserve energy, and conserve resources.

Now, I consider this an adaptive physiology kind of genius development of the body where the body knows that in time of famine, where we might have nutrient depletions and a lot of stress, that we need to shut certain things down. The fastest way to shut down energy expenditure is going to be through slowing down thyroid function. So my kind of interpretation of what’s going on with thyroid disease and what’s going on in Hashimoto’s, is basically our bodies response to our current environment, right? So our body is interpreting these signs. So eating foods that are inflammatory to you; right now that seems like it’s a normal part of life. But if you were a caveman, there was never going to be a time that you would eat grass; which let’s face it, grains are; unless you were absolutely starving. Unless there was a famine. So this sends a signal to your body that you’re not safe, right.

Same with any kind of toxin. So the toxin within your body, or within your environment, it sends a signal to your body saying, “Hey, we’re not safe. Not a good time to be utilizing all of our resources. We need to conserve our resources.”

So how you back away from that is sending your body safety signals, and convincing your body that yes, it is safe. Right? That’s how you start rebalancing autoimmune thyroid disease. And you do that through making sure that you’re nourishing yourself; avoiding foods that are inflammatory to you; you’re addressing your stress, and then supporting the liver and supporting the adrenal glands. Supporting your gut is also going to be helpful for sending your body those safety signals to make yourself feel better.

As far as the root causes, a lot of times, it’s going to be a whole lifestyle overhaul when you have autoimmune thyroid disease, where you dial in all these moving pieces. Like the nutrients, and you want to dial in the food, and so on and so forth. And the liver, adrenal and gut protocols; my fundamental protocols actually result in improvement 80% of the time, where people feel significantly better and some people can even go into remission once they get these 3 elements dialed in.

Beyond that, there are various types of root causes. And some of the root causes we can absolutely figure out what they are and we can remove them. Gluten is a root cause for some people; once they get off of gluten, everything else comes into balance. The world comes back, and birds are singing everywhere, and you’re in complete remission, until you eat gluten again. For other people, breast implants may be an autoimmune trigger. They get their breast implants removed, and they no longer have autoimmune disease, right?

For other people, it might be a combination of different things. So they might have a few different infections, they may need to really work on rebalancing their stress response. For others, it might be things that we can’t necessarily get rid of. If a immunization triggered their thyroid disease, it’s not like you can undo it, right? So a matter of what you need to do when you have Hashimoto’s is you need to support your fundamentals, you need to work on building up your body, you need to work on that resilience to get yourself to feel well. Often times you also need to address hormones, and making sure you’re on proper thyroid hormone replacement in conjunction as you’re doing these lifestyle things.

And there’s fundamentals that I recommend, and I also recommend figuring out and addressing any kind of root causes or known triggers that you may have, and that’s why I have a root causes assessment in the second part of the book that goes through all these potential triggers that could be contributing. But what I’ve found is it’s oftentimes wiser to get the lifestyle and the strengthening protocols up, such as making sure you’re properly nourished, as you ladies know, before you start really going heavily after the different root causes.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome; love that approach, and I love you putting it together through all of the spectrum of root causes and things that can be combined, instead of a lot of practitioners now will go out and say, “Epstein Barr is the root cause of Hashimoto’s.” I can’t tell you how many people in the last week; it’s almost on a daily basis now that are coming up with this. And for some people; yes, dealing with a chronic infection is a part of their journey, but for a lot of people, it’s not, so you presented a really wide range, and you present even more in your book of things that some people wouldn’t even think of; like the breast implants or various thigs that people could be reacting to in their lifestyle, you know. Toxic mold in their house; whatever it is that they’re having trouble with.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Yeah, absolutely. And in some cases, there are somethings that you can’t get rid of necessarily out of our environment, so you can’t leave our planet and our planet really is full of toxins. So we have to do our best to survive in this world. And it’s a matter of sending safety signals to our body, and that’s going to be making sure you’re really nourished and well taken care of.

Mickey Trescott: Mm-hmm. And not having too much fear about that, too; because I’ve seen a lot of people go off the deep end in that area, too; where when they start hearing stories, especially of other people where someone is having a problem with something really specific, they start to kind of get this bubble living, and afraid of the outside world. I think that really impacts our ability to live vibrant, healthy lives if we’re constantly afraid of everything we’ll come into contact with. So we have to have a balance there.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Yeah, I agree. And I know for myself, when I first started on the path to healing; I made a lot of mistakes, and that’s probably why I write about it all because I don’t want people to make the same mistakes I did. But I was on a dietary protocol; I was on the GAPS diet, which just wasn’t right for me. It works well for some people, right? But for me this diet wasn’t right because I was very sensitive to nuts, and nuts make me accumulate copper. My body tends to accumulate copper just in general, potentially because of some undiscovered genes that I have. And you can get into a place where you feel like you lose that connection, and you lose that communication with your body. And you’re no longer perceiving your body’s messages, and you become very fearful.

I know I became concerned when I was going; about eating sweet potatoes. And I was like; well they’re not GAPS compliant, and are they going to harm me because I lost that communication and that, I guess inner dialogue with my body. And that’s really what it is; and recovering, in my opinion, from Hashimoto’s, is remaking that connection with your body where you listen to its signs in terms of what foods are working for you, what foods aren’t working for you; what’s working in your life, and for most people being isolated and keeping themselves away from their community; that’s definitely not on the list of things that makes them feel better. So really going through and creating that little list for yourself; “things that make me feel better, things that make me feel worse” and doing more of the better and less of the worse is probably the most important thing you can do for your healing.

Mickey Trescott: I don’t know if this lady could be singing to our hearts any more clearly, you guys. We are always preaching the balance in this process, and she’s just really speaking some wise stuff here. Izabella, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. We know our Hashi’s brothers and sisters listening in will learn a lot from this episode. You guys, please pick up a copy of Izabella’s new book; Hashimoto’s Protocol: A 90-day plan for reversing thyroid symptoms and getting your life back. Izabella, can you let our listeners know where to follow you and what’s in store for your community of Root Cause Rebels?

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Yeah, absolutely. My website is www.ThyroidPharmacist.com, and as we talked a little bit at the beginning of the interview, I’m always coming out with new and exciting things for people with thyroid disease, and trying to get more information out into the world. One of these big projects was The Thyroid Secret, and if you want to be notified about if we ever do re-release that you can go to www.ThyroidPharmacist.com/gift. I also have some helpful things to get your started on your journal, including a guide on nutrient deficiencies, which are one of the fastest ways to get back your health. And I always keep; I’m sending out up to date research every week or so or every two weeks, if I’m in a book launch, to let people know about what all the different potential things that can be helpful for them to recover their health. And Hashimoto’s Protocol is available wherever books are sold. So if you go to Barnes and Noble, if you go to Amazon, if you go to any kind of bookstores you should be able to find it there. And I hope that you pick it up, and I hope that it helps you on your journey.

Mickey Trescott: Awesome; thank you so much, Izabella, for spending some time with us. We really appreciate it.

Dr. Izabella Wentz: Thank you so much for having me; it’s been such a pleasure chatting with you ladies.

Mickey Trescott: Bye guys.

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by ordering your copy today!

To check out Season 1 of the podcast, click here.

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We are so grateful for all your positive feedback and interest in our very first podcast season! We created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our new book,The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Episode #18: Encore – The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part II is another fun chat with our AIP blogging community friends from all over the globe. We take a few minutes to chat with ten different bloggers on one point each from our AIP Evolved Manifesto. They share with us how they have lived out that particular tenant in their own healing journeys. Once again, this encore episode is for you if you like “real life” perspectives on AIP and/or you want to virtually be introduced to some of your favorite bloggers.

If you’d like to share how you have lived out a tenant of the manifesto, please share in the comments here. Obviously, we are big fans of learning how folks everywhere are restoring their health using AIP.

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Show Notes:

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:29 Welcome to the encore episode — Part II
  • AIP Evolved Manifesto
• 3:26 Emma shares on Point #11: Seek help.  
  • Diagnosis: Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Lyme Disease, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
  • Website: The Bacon Mum
• 8:04 Maria shares on Point #12: Test, don’t guess.
  • Diagnosis: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis
  • Website: Zesty Paleo
• 12:48 Sarah shares on Point #13: Be skeptical.
  • Diagnosis: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, Fibromyalgia, Lichen Planus, Psoriasis
  • Website: The Paleo Mom
  • Podcast: The Paleo View
  • Books: The Paleo Approach, The Paleo Approach Cookbook, The Healing Kitchen
• 15:36 Sophie shares on Point #14: Strive for balance.
  • Diagnosis: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis
  • Website: A Squirrel In The Kitchen
  • Book: Simple French Paleo
• 19:08 Bre’anna shares on Point #15: Support is crucial.
  • Diagnosis: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and Celiac
  • Website: He Won’t Know It’s Paleo
  • Books: He Won’t Know It’s Paleo, Holiday On The Autoimmune Protocol  
• 23:10 Kerry shares on Point #16: Reframe the negatives.
  • Diagnosis: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and Celiac
  • Website: Emotional Autoimmunity 
• 27:34 Jaime shares on Point #17: Practice gratitude.
  • Diagnosis: Crohn’s Disease
  • Website: Gutsy By Nature
• 31:29 Martine shares on Point #18: Eyes on your own journey.
  • Diagnosis: Crohn’s Disease
  • Website: Eat Heal Thrive
• 36:30 Alexandra shares on Point #19: Health before image.
  • Diagnosis: Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome
  • Website: Don’t Eat the Spatula
• 39:45 Rory shares on Point #20: Vibrant health is a lifelong journey.
  • Diagnosis: Rosacea, Occular Rosacea, Small Intestine Bacteria Overgrowth (SIBO)
  • Website: The Paleo PI
• 44:29 Outro

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our new book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by ordering your copy today!

Order your copy:

// Amazon
// Barnes & Noble
// iBooks
// Books-a-Million
// Indiebound
// Powell’s

Check out the previous episode, Episode #17: Encore — The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part I. For the full podcast archive, click here.

The post The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Episode #18: Encore – The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part II appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

This post contains affiliate links. Click here to see what that means!

We are so grateful for all your positive feedback and interest in our very first podcast season! We created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our new book,The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Episode #17: Encore – The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part I is a fun chat with our AIP blogging community friends from all over the globe. We take a few minutes to chat with ten different bloggers on one point each from our AIP Evolved Manifesto. They share with us how they have lived out that particular tenant in their own healing journeys. This encore episode is for you if you like “real life” perspectives on AIP and/or you want to virtually be introduced to some of your favorite bloggers.

If you’d like to share how you have lived out a tenant of the manifesto, please share in the comments here. Obviously, we are big fans of learning how folks everywhere are restoring their health using AIP.

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Show Notes:

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:20 Welcome to the encore episode-Part I
  • AIP Evolved Manifesto
• 5:09 Alaena shares on Point #1: Trust your intuition.  
  • Diagnosis: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis
  • Website: Grazed and Enthused
  • Book: The Healing Kitchen
• 9:03 Joanna shares on Point #2: Embrace the template.
  • Diagnosis: Hidradenitus Suppurativa
  • Website: Joanna Frankham
• 15:03 Eileen shares on Point #3: Information is power.
  • Diagnosis: Rheumatoid Arthritis
  • Website: Phoenix Helix
  • Podcast: Phoenix Helix Podcast
  • Book: A Simple Guide to the Paleo Autoimmune Protocol
• 19:16 Erin shares on Point #4: Start simple.
  • Diagnosis: Psoriasis, Psoriatic Arthritis and Raynaud’s Disease
  • Website: Enjoying This Journey
• 23:55 Astrid shares on Point #5: Take it slow.
  • Diagnosis: Ulcerative Colitis
  • Website: Heal Me In The Kitchen
• 27:30 Dora shares on Point #6: Food is your friend.
  • Diagnosis: Grave’s Disease
  • Website: Provincial Paleo
  • Ebook: The Little Cookbook of Gluten-Free Waffles
• 30:49 Bethany shares on Point #7: Set yourself up for success.
  • Diagnosis: Uveitis, Spondyloarthritis, Endometriosis
  • Website: Adventures in Partaking
  • Ebook: AIP Safari
• 33:23 Kate shares on Point #8: Be a nutrient-seeker.
  • Diagnosis: Hypothyroidism and Raynaud’s Disease
  • Website: Healing Family Eats
• 36:54 Jo shares on Point #9: Food over supplements.
  • Diagnosis: Psoriasis
  • Website: Comfort Bites
  • Ebooks: Simple Autoimmune Paleo Comfort Food and Spice
• 40:04 Kat shares on Point #10: Don’t diet “harder.”
  • Diagnosis: Psoriasis, Psoriatic Arthritis, and Endometriosis
  • Website: The Primordial Table
• 43:20 Outro

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our new book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by ordering your copy today!

Order your copy:

// Amazon
// Barnes & Noble
// iBooks
// Books-a-Million
// Indiebound
// Powell’s

Check out the previous episode, Episode #16: Putting Together All the Steps of The Autoimmune Wellness Journey, and the next episode, Episode #18: Encore — The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part II. For the full podcast archive, click here.

The post The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Episode #17: Encore – The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part I appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

This post contains affiliate links. Click here to see what that means!

The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook launches!

That’s right folks… our book baby makes her entrance, and we couldn’t be more excited!

Today, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook is available everywhere books are sold. If you pre-ordered online, it might even be in your mailbox right now… If you hit your local bookstore, it will probably be on the shelves. We are over here pinching ourselves!

We know many of you aren’t able to make it out to the book tour we are embarking on this week, so we wanted to celebrate by holding a virtual launch party and Q + A session on Facebook Live! Click here to see the replay!

All you need to do is navigate over to our Facebook page at 1PM PST and click on the live video of us. You can then leave comments and ask questions. We can’t wait to hang out with you guys!

For those of you that live in the Bay Area, Seattle, Denver, NYC or DC, we look forward to seeing you this week at our book signing events!

Want some more details about the book?

The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook was written on the foundation that the way we view and treat autoimmune disease is undergoing a revolution. Our purpose with this book is to help fuel that major shift.

We are hoping that this book helps you live out the seven key steps to living well with autoimmune disease — inform, collaborate, nourish, rest, breathe, and connect. This is an empowered, actionable book!

Just to recap, here is what you’ll find inside:

• A chapter on each of the seven key steps to wellness; Inform, Collaborate, Nourish, Rest, Breathe, Move, and Connect.
• Information on how to be a proactive patient, from receiving a diagnosis to partnering with a doctor who can help you achieve wellness.
• Self-assessments, checklists, and infographics for every chapter to help you define where you are and decide where to apply your energy. Everyone’s journey is different!
• 30 exclusive recipes, compliant with the Autoimmune Protocol. We want you to heal and enjoy your life!
• A 4-week meal plan and shopping list for the elimination diet. The mantra is “set yourself up for success!”.
• A 90-day lifestyle plan to ease you into better rest, stress management, exercise, and connection, without making you feel burnt out! We know that making small, incremental changes will make this doable!

We believe that in order to live well with chronic illness, you need to become a new kind of patient, one who is savvy enough to know that a whole-body and whole-life approach is necessary. The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook helps you achieve that with information-rich resources, self-assessments, checklists, and guides.

If you’d like to pick up a copy today, order from these retailers or pick one up wherever books are sold!

// Amazon
// Barnes & Noble
// iBooks
// Books-a-Million
// Indiebound
// Powell’s

We recorded a short little podcast episode about launch day, as well as to make a call for questions for a season 2 of the podcast. Listen below:

Lastly, thank you to everyone who has supported us by pre-ordering the book, listening to the podcast, and sharing your stories and feedback about the autoimmune wellness journey. We are thrilled to share this with you and hope it helps your healing reach new heights.

Have you received your copy of the handbook yet? Tell us what you think in the comments, and if you have a chance, consider leaving us a review on Amazon!

The post The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook Launches! appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

This post contains affiliate links. Click here to see what that means!

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 1! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our upcoming book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Episode #16: Putting Together the Steps of The Autoimmune Wellness Journey starts with a look at how our personal healing timelines unfolded. We discuss how long each of the seven steps; inform, collaborate, nourish, rest, breathe, move, and connect, took us to implement as we sought wellness. The second half of this episode is about the “big idea” we are hoping to convey with the book and podcast series, the ebb and flow nature of a healing with autoimmune disease, ditching perfectionism, and shifting what we see as “normal” in order to focus on health. The very best part of this episode comes in the last 15 minutes where we share loads of inspiration on joining the community.

If you’d like to go more in-depth, check out the “Conclusion” section at the end of The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook. It will help solidify this exciting, renewing process for you and add depth to our chat during this episode.

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Show Notes:

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:30 Welcome to the final episode
• 2:57 We talk about “healing timelines”
• 3:29 Mickey shares how long the Inform step took her
  • One year
• 5:14 Angie shares how long the Inform step took her
  • 11 years (She had a complex situation.)
• 6:36 Angie shares how long the Collaborate step took her
  • One-two years
• 7:44 Mickey shares how long the Collaborate step took her
  • She’s still working this step
• 10:22 Mickey shares how long the Nourish step took her
  • Three-six months
• 11:28 Angie shares how long the Nourish step took her
  • Overnight
• 12:32 Angie shares how long the Rest step took her
  • Roughly one year, but there were big improvements immediately with dietary changes
• 13:37 Mickey shares how long the Rest step took her
  • Roughly a couple months with a breakthrough following some neurotransmitter testing and supplementation
  • Has required continual maintenance
• 15:31 Mickey shares how long the Breathe step took her
  • She’s still working this step
• 16:13 Angie shares how long the Breathe step took her
  • She’s still working this step, but there were big improvements immediately with diagnosis, because unexplained illness was a major source of stress
• 17:50 Mickey shares how long the Move step took her
  • She had a routine within one month, but it took longer for her to transition the way she thought of it
• 19:21 Angie shares how long the Move step took her
  • She’s still working on this step
• 20:33 Angie shares how long the Connect step took her
  • She was able to dial in this step immediately
• 21:44 Mickey shares how long the Connect step took her
  • She had some initial stumbles with her friends around socializing
• 23:40 The big idea of this episode is that the process takes time and looks different for every individual
• 24:30 The Autoimmune Wellness Journey is a journey of ebbing and flowing
• 25:05 Mickey shares personal examples of ebb and flow
• 26:33 Angie shares personal examples of ebb and flow
  • Over time we can learn to proactively use the protocol to support ourselves through things we recognize as likely health challenges
• 29:29 Learning to spot “engine trouble”
• 30:20 Perfectionism has no place in the Autoimmune Wellness Journey
• 32:20 Being open to shifting what we see as “normal”
• 34:08 Joining the Autoimmune Wellness community
  • Community groups
  • Online groups
  • Social media (hashtags: #autoimmunepaleo #autoimmunewellness #totesaip #bonebrothheals and specific disease tags, like #celiac)
  • Consider starting a blog or social media account to share your story and inspire the next person to change their life
  • Talk to your doctor about your diet and lifestyle
• 45:10 Our hopes for your healing journey
  • Empowerment
  • Action
  • Wellness
  • Vitality
• 47:15 Outro

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our forthcoming book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by pre-ordering your copy today!

Pre-order your copy:

// Amazon
// Barnes & Noble
// iBooks
// Books-a-Million
// Indiebound
// Powell’s

Check out the previous episode, Episode #15: Angelo Coppola on Connecting with Humans and Nature, and the next episode, Episode #17: Encore — The AIP Evolved Manifesto Part I. For the full podcast archive, click here.

The post The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Episode #16: Putting Together The Steps of the Autoimmune Wellness Journey appeared first on Autoimmune Wellness.

This post contains affiliate links. Click here to see what that means!

Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 1! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our upcoming book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Episode #15: Step 7: In-Depth with Angelo Coppola is an episode with a popular, and very unique voice, in the wider Paleo community about how connection with others and nature deeply impacts not just our wellness, but our whole lives. Angelo discusses leaving his high-powered career to focus on family and his place in the natural world, his philosophy of “humans are not broken,” and exploring how removing some things from his life actually expanded it greatly. He also talks with us about a really refreshing view he has about not seeing our bodies, especially those with autoimmune disease, as broken, but seeing disease as warning signs of environmental inputs that need to change. Angelo also explores with us the relationship humans have to the natural world (his take is that we are nature) and his ideas about “ambient anxiety.” This is a great episode for anyone who wants to think about connection in a whole new light.

If you want to explore some of our conversation more, take a look at the “How to Start Connecting with Nature” section in Chapter 7. This section provides ideas on getting started with simple connection to nature.

How to listen:

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If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Show Notes:

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:00 Introducing Angelo
  • Angelo’s Bio
  • Angelo’s Website
  • Latest In Paleo Podcast
• 2:30 Angelo shares about how his connections changed after he left his high-powered career
  • He feels those connections actually helped him connect more to himself
• 6:09 What it felt like when Angelo made the decision to shift his lifestyle
  • He is always focused on “tweaking in the right direction,” rather than perfectionism in his life
• 10:00 What is Angelo’s philosophy “humans are not broken?”
  • Be careful of the often used marketing idea that you are inadequate
  • Explore the idea that you may need to reduce, rather than increase in life
• 14:30 Angelo discusses how we can reject the idea that our bodies are broken, but instead consider environmental inputs that may be negative
• 16:00 Angelo shares his view that humans and nature are not in relationship
  • He believes we are the same as nature
  • He shares his great quote, “Our modern lives are a dumbing down of nature.”
• 22:20 The key components that Angelo sees as contributing to autoimmune disease
  • Diet
  • Lack of “baked right in” natural experiences
• 28:08 “Ambient Anxiety” and whether or not we should look for an anxiety to it?
  • Angelo suggests seeing stress/anxiety as a pain response pointing to a root cause
• 36:00 Outro

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our forthcoming book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by pre-ordering your copy today!

Pre-order your copy:

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// Barnes & Noble
// iBooks
// Books-a-Million
// Indiebound
// Powell’s

Check out the previous episode, Episode #14: Step 7: Connect – Our Stories, and the next episode, Episode #16: Putting Together All the Steps of The Autoimmune Wellness Journey. For the full podcast archive, click here.

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Welcome to The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast Season 1! We’ve created this podcast as a free resource to accompany our upcoming book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness.

Episode #14: Step 7: Connect – Our Stories is an episode all about an often unexplored, but vitally important, piece of the healing process, connection. In this episode we talk not only about connection with other people and its role in healing, but connection with the natural world. We start with a chat about how our illnesses initially impacted our support networks, how things changed after diagnosis and when realization that this was chronic set-in. We address the awkward, depressing, and often stressful truth behind trying to articulate the experience of autoimmune disease to those close to us, plus how the experience can expose weaknesses in our connections with others. We also talk about transitioning our social lives to support healing, finding new connections through online support, and avoiding the trap of adopting illness as an identity. Next we move on to exploring the role connection with nature had in our recoveries and wrap up with ways to experience the benefits of that connection even when you can’t get out in the woods regularly. This episode is a great match for listeners that are wondering if the strain illness has taken on their “people” connections is normal or what they can do to enhance their nature connections.

If you want to dig in check-out the ideas in the “Building a Support Network” section in Chapter 7. This is a good place to help you get the gears turning about forming or strengthening relationships, if it feels like this area could use some attention for you.

How to listen:

If you’d like to have our podcasts sent directly to your device, subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher!

If you’d like to download the .mp3, you can do so by following this link.

If you’d like to play the episode right now in your browser, use the player below!

Show Notes:

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:31 Introducing the Connect topic
  • How Healthy Relationships Make Us Healthy
• 2:26 Angie shares about what her support network was like early in her journey
  • Strong, but confused
• 5:26 Mickey shares about what her support network was like early in her journey
  • Strong, but tense
• 7:50 Mickey talks about key relationships that were under stress due to her illness
• 9:17 We don’t have rituals for acknowledging chronic illness in our society
• 10:18 The awkward and depressing side of discussing your autoimmune disease
• 11:18 The importance of adding people who “get it” on a personal level to your support network
• 12:29 Mickey’s social life now
• 13:26 Angie shares about transitioning her social life to support healing
  • Working to inspire others to support her choices by projecting confidence about her journey
• 15:54 Mickey shares about avoiding long explanations with all but the most important people
• 17:48 Mickey shares about connections she found online
  • She was looking for empowered people
• 19:30 Angie shares about connections she found online
  • Her virtual relationships turned into real world connections
• 21:25 How to avoid adopting illness as our identities
  • Consider ways autoimmune disease has expanded your life
  • Consider how it could actually shut you off from connection with others
  • Consider meeting new people and letting your illness take a backseat in how you define yourself to them
• 25:00 The powerful role connection with nature can play in healing
  • Three Reasons You Need More Time in the Forest
• 25:38 Angie shares about her experience with nature and healing
  • It gave her a renewed energy
• 27:00 Mickey shares about her experience with nature and healing
  • She had a similar sense of drawing energy
• 28:20 The inescapable connection we have to the natural world
• 28:52 How Angie connects with nature now
  • Walking
• 30:05 How Mickey connects with nature now
  • She moved to a farm
• 31:30 Experiencing the elements of nature when we can’t get out
  • House plants
  • Nature sounds recordings
  • Diffusing essential oils
  • Bright light exposure
• 34:14 Your homework for Step 7, Connect!
  • Try out the “Support Network Evaluation” tool in Chapter 7 of The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook to assess the strength of your connections with others.
• 34:34 Outro

Wait–before you go!

If you enjoyed the podcast, would you mind leaving us a review in iTunes? This helps introduce our work to a new audience as we climb the ranks in their system.

The Autoimmune Wellness Podcast is a complimentary resource to our forthcoming book, The Autoimmune Wellness Handbook: A DIY Guide to Living Well with Chronic Illness. Support us in our mission to revolutionize how autoimmune disease is viewed and treated by pre-ordering your copy today!

Pre-order your copy:

// Amazon
// Barnes & Noble
// iBooks
// Books-a-Million
// Indiebound
// Powell’s